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09-04-2018, 06:05 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Early 2019 is common knowledge for the "BIG" announcement.

---------- Post added 09-01-18 at 08:23 AM ----------



Yes,its coming....I'm wondering if its necessary though.The difference between 1080 and 4K is noticeable but only on a large screen.

8K is projector size..full wall stuff.???
It would be awesome to see Olympus enter the FF market. Hopefully they keep the 4:3 aspect ratio. Loved my E-3 in everyway except the sensor size. Great camera and great lenses.

09-04-2018, 06:05 PM   #92
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Another issue that has been over-looked here is that a lot of these sensor measurements and pixels don't end up in the recorded image. So it's kind of a 'false precision' to split hairs about the math.

In-camera processing prior to writing the RAW to disc, and external RAW editors too, will often mask off the edge pixels in a RAW, sometimes along one edge, sometimes along top and bottom, sometimes all around the image, depending on the camera or the RAW tool.

cf:

QuoteQuote:
"I found an issue with how DNG converter converts Nikon D810 NEF files. NEF image size is 7380x4928 and doesn't have any masked pixels. The final size of the image after processing is 7360x4912, which means that there is a padding of 10 pixels on top and bottom and 8 pixels on left and right of the image. However, the image in the DNG has a size of 7372x4920. That should not happen, since there are no masked pixels in the NEF file. Moreover, DNG says that the crop origin is at 12x8. That leaves zero padding at the right and bottom of the image for CFA interpolation."
DNG Converter Issue with Nikon D810 |*Adobe Community

and at Luminous Landscapes:

QuoteQuote:
"1. Many of the image processing algorithms (de-mosaicing, noise reduction, sharpening) that camera firmware (or raw conversion software) apply to raw
sensor data are not “point operations”, but are instead “neighborhood operations”. When computing the output value of a given pixel, the algorithm needs to know not only the input value of that pixel, but also the input values of the pixels in the local neighborhood. The pixels at the very edges of the recorded image don’t have a complete local neighborhood, so the algorithms need make some guess as to their value, which means that output results for these edge pixels will be not quite as accurate as the pixels a few pixels away from the edges. By trimming away these edge pixels, the camera manufacturers guarantee that all the output pixels are of maximum quality.

2. Sometimes image sensors don’t have aspect ratios that exactly match the standard aspect ratios (3:2, 4:3, 16:9, etc.). In these cases, there are often different numbers of horizontal and vertical pixels hidden, to cause the final output image to have an exact aspect ratio. When some users print digital camera images, they often don’t bother to crop them, so having the camera output images with standard aspect ratios that exactly match standard paper dimensions is an advantage.
DNG Recover Edges - Luminous Landscape
09-04-2018, 06:15 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It would be awesome to see Olympus enter the FF market
It was speculation because of the 7 FF lenses they patented last year coupled with a "big announcement" in 2019 and Pany's move to FF.People put a few things together and concluded/assumed FF Oly was a given.

However, the news this morning is that the big announcement is a "video orientated" M43 camera....FF will remain speculation for a while yet.
09-04-2018, 06:34 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Another issue that has been over-looked here is that a lot of these sensor measurements and pixels don't end up in the recorded image. So it's kind of a 'false precision' to split hairs about the math.

In-camera processing prior to writing the RAW to disc, and external RAW editors too, will often mask off the edge pixels in a RAW, sometimes along one edge, sometimes along top and bottom, sometimes all around the image, depending on the camera or the RAW tool.
There's another factor too. The width and height will be divisible by 16, because JPEG files work best with full 8x8 and 16x16 blocks. Even if you're working with RAW, the camera specs are tuned for JPEG.

09-04-2018, 08:34 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It would be awesome to see Olympus enter the FF market. Hopefully they keep the 4:3 aspect ratio. Loved my E-3 in everyway except the sensor size. Great camera and great lenses.


I would love that.


09-04-2018, 08:42 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
It was speculation because of the 7 FF lenses they patented last year coupled with a "big announcement" in 2019 and Pany's move to FF.People put a few things together and concluded/assumed FF Oly was a given.
However, the news this morning is that the big announcement is a "video orientated" M43 camera....FF will remain speculation for a while yet.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
I would love that.
You may have to wait a while.
09-04-2018, 09:20 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
You may have to wait a while.


Yup, a long while. Not sure if anyone will ever come out with a 4:3 aspect ratio fullframe sensor...




09-05-2018, 06:25 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Yup, a long while. Not sure if anyone will ever come out with a 4:3 aspect ratio fullframe sensor..
It would have to be a custom-made sensor, which would probably greatly increase it's costs. So very unlikely. Not surprised that Olympus will stay out of FF mirrorless. With four players in what is essentially a moderately high-end market, there really isn't room for anyone else. Panasonic's entry makes sense in terms of video. Most of the experts seem to believe that Panasonic does video better than anyone else, but the smaller 4/3rd sensors are also seen as a liability. Going to FF solves this issue and places Panasonic squarely in the lead when it comes to high-end video with still cameras.
09-05-2018, 03:53 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Going to FF solves this issue and places Panasonic squarely in the lead when it comes to high-end video with still cameras.
I'm expecting that Pano will lead the video FF category once they announce.I'm also expecting after their development of the G9,the stills will be competitive.
Very interesting day that 25th of the month.
09-06-2018, 07:18 AM - 1 Like   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
FF category once they announce.I'm also expecting after their development of the G9,the stills will be competitive.
Complaints about stills from Panasonic cameras seem to me without foundation, in any case. The issue is not that the Pany cameras are poor at stills, but that the chief selling point is how well they do video. I have no doubt that the Panasonic FF will be great at stills. But I suspect its market will consist largely of people who want high-end video capabilities in their still camera.

One thing else. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Panasonic FF turns out to be the largest FF mirrorless on the market. Panasonic may need to make the camera a bit larger to handle potential heating issues. Keep in mind, unlike video capable still cameras from other brands, the top of the line Panasonic cameras don't have a time limit on video recording. If you have enough power and large enough storage for the video, you can run them for hours.
09-06-2018, 07:34 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Complaints about stills from Panasonic cameras seem to me without foundation,
Up until now they have only used contrast detect AF,if the new FF does that it probably will be behind in stills.Anyway,i'm hoping they come with something quite good and a surpise is nice.

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I have no doubt that the Panasonic FF will be great at stills
I have no doubt its got a good chance of being the leading FF video cam.They have the pedigree and their dedicated high end Video cams are being outsold by Canon i've heard.So less prone to protect the high end stuff.(like Canon does).

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Panasonic may need to make the camera a bit larger to handle potential heating issues.
It wont be $$$ony size!
09-06-2018, 10:53 AM - 1 Like   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
It would have to be a custom-made sensor, which would probably greatly increase it's costs. So very unlikely. Not surprised that Olympus will stay out of FF mirrorless. With four players in what is essentially a moderately high-end market, there really isn't room for anyone else. Panasonic's entry makes sense in terms of video. Most of the experts seem to believe that Panasonic does video better than anyone else, but the smaller 4/3rd sensors are also seen as a liability. Going to FF solves this issue and places Panasonic squarely in the lead when it comes to high-end video with still cameras.
Olympus has patented 7 FF mirrorless lenses over the past 5 years. They are obviously working on something. I don't think Olympus would have a hard time competing in the FF mirrorless market. They are one of the innovators of mirrorless technology.
09-06-2018, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Olympus has patented 7 FF mirrorless lenses over the past 5 years. They are obviously working on something. I don't think Olympus would have a hard time competing in the FF mirrorless market. They are one of the innovators of mirrorless technology.
They have more experience than anyone except Sony with the on-sensor phase detect focus. I think that's going to be a crucial differentiator in FF mirrorless.
09-07-2018, 04:58 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Olympus has patented 7 FF mirrorless lenses over the past 5 years. They are obviously working on something. I don't think Olympus would have a hard time competing in the FF mirrorless market. They are one of the innovators of mirrorless technology.
Oly have a knack of doing interesting things. I hope their next venture is more interesting than the current rumour of another $2K+ M43 camera which few could afford and likely wouldn’t seem good value anyway in the era of $2K FF numbers. M43 is facing tricky times, imho. Still has a rationale but avoiding the Canonikony steamroller won’t be easy.
09-07-2018, 05:19 AM   #105
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M43 has to focus on it's strenghts. Portability and compactness so its good for travel and street photography. Also it is a great system for macro and small wild life (as long as the lighting conditions are good). Panasonic also has a good thing going in the video department. But they probably fear Sony's competition, so they want to expand to the full frame (Soon full frame sensors can do 60p 4K, right now only m43 can and Fuji's x-t3 is the first aps-c that can afaik. M43 will loose it's speed advantage) in order to cover more bases.
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