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09-09-2018, 03:53 AM   #46
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Fuji files do look quite strange when pixelpeeping. I'ts almost as if the image has been vectorised. Areas of colour with quite sharp edges between them. When looking at the whole image though they tend to look very sharp and quite natural. As Rondec mentioned it's probably the NR and sharpening algorithms than push the files towards this look.

09-09-2018, 04:16 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Fuji files do look quite strange when pixelpeeping. I'ts almost as if the image has been vectorised. Areas of colour with quite sharp edges between them. When looking at the whole image though they tend to look very sharp and quite natural. As Rondec mentioned it's probably the NR and sharpening algorithms than push the files towards this look.
Fuji do smooth out images areas that lack details, that includes skies, people faces, and large flat areas of the same colors, that's how they used to claim that apsc x-trans was as good as a full frame sensor and there was no need of full frame. The downside is, sometimes, parts of images look like waxed, especially smooth skin for portraits. Pentax took this idea for introducing the skin tone #2 mode in the Pentax K1, lady faces look a little younger when using skin tone #2. Fuji users that to enhance image look, but that doesn't work well for landscapes. Typically, Fuji camera are promoted by studio photographer with extensive lighting equipment, apsc doesn't matter in that case as there is plenty of light.

---------- Post added 09-09-18 at 13:30 ----------

Fuji is a bit of a dilemma: you have the X series with apsc sensors, they'll give you image quality like Pentax K3 or Pentax KP, don't expect more. You have the GFX50S using the same sensor as the Pentax 645Z, but the trouble is the GFX50S use CDAF only and is slow like hell. With a GFX50S, practically speaking, you can'r think of shooting a models walking on a runway of a fashion show, even the Pentax AF system is significantly better. You could still focus and track models of a fashion show with a 645Z but you can forget about do it with a GFX50S. GFX50S is for shooting still subjects in a studio or landscape, and that's all.
09-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Fuji files do look quite strange when pixelpeeping.
.........................

---------- Post added 09-11-18 at 10:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
.the 200% wasnt bad .
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Wow, you're right. They do look really soft.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
mushy mushy,





09-11-2018, 07:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The biggest negative with Fuji is the lack of upgrade path and no, having medium format isn't an upgrade path, since it take completely different lenses and you can't mount lenses from an XT series camera on the GFX cameras.

If you decide that you want full frame, you have to go with a different brand. Otherwise, their lens selection is good (if expensive -- I wonder how much that 200mmf2 will be?), their cameras are full featured and seem to be reasonably priced. The whole X Trans thing is a bit silly. It turns out it doesn't do much except make it harder for third party companies to post process Fuji images -- interesting that they didn't go with it on their medium format cameras, if it really is so great.
This really isnít a big deal unless you are buying full frame lenses to go with your APS-C system. If your APS-C system is all APS-C lenses, then you are buying all new stuff if you move up a format.

09-15-2018, 02:16 AM   #50
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Fujifilm X-T3 Review

Heres a review.
09-16-2018, 02:01 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Fujifilm X-T3 Review

Heres a review.
It looks extremely tempting with or without IBIS, far more so than the two previous models in the series. The sheer amount that can be done with technology and software in these new mirrorless cameras is going to pull them ahead of DSLRs over the next two or three years.
09-16-2018, 03:05 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It looks extremely tempting with or without IBIS, far more so than the two previous models in the series. The sheer amount that can be done with technology and software in these new mirrorless cameras is going to pull them ahead of DSLRs over the next two or three years.
Forgive me if I disagree. People have been saying this for a long time and yet the quality of photos that I see on the interwebs has not changed significantly. If all of these mirrorless technologies really were game changers then you would expect to see a bunch of images that are impossible to take with SLRs. The reality is that for a long time the main limitation for photography is a few centimeters behind the viewfinder (regardless OVF and EVF) and people who buy MILCs tend to take the same photos they took with their SLRs. Granted, they have more of them to delete at the end of the end of the day, but they are the same images.

09-16-2018, 03:33 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Forgive me if I disagree. People have been saying this for a long time and yet the quality of photos that I see on the interwebs has not changed significantly. If all of these mirrorless technologies really were game changers then you would expect to see a bunch of images that are impossible to take with SLRs. The reality is that for a long time the main limitation for photography is a few centimeters behind the viewfinder (regardless OVF and EVF) and people who buy MILCs tend to take the same photos they took with their SLRs. Granted, they have more of them to delete at the end of the end of the day, but they are the same images.
This has nothing to do with the quality of photographs. Itís all to do with business and economics. If mirrorless cameras deliver the biz more effectively than DSLRs then the industry will gradually switch over. Nothing personal, just business and commercial survival, just the need to bring on new cohorts of customers with new interests like video, 3D, drones, mixing it up in all sorts of creative ways. Kevin Raber on LuLa suggests the adoption of global shutters will be a decider. He is probably right. At least he knows much more about the industry than I do. And yes, DSLRs will continue to be made not least to service the huge raft of legacy kit out there, but they will no longer be the mainstream choice as they have been till now. Everything changes.
09-16-2018, 03:37 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
This has nothing to do with the quality of photographs. Itís all to do with business and economics. If mirrorless cameras deliver the biz more effectively than DSLRs then the industry will gradually switch over. Nothing personal, just business and commercial survival, just the need to bring on new cohorts of customers with new interests like video, 3D, drones, mixing it up in all sorts of creative ways. Kevin Raber on LuLa suggests the adoption of global shutters will be a decider. He is probably right. At least he knows much more about the industry than I do. And yes, DSLRs will continue to be made not least to service the huge raft of legacy kit out there, but they will no longer be the mainstream choice as they have been till now. Everything changes.
I've just heard this for ages. Mirrorless cameras will destroy SLRs, full frame sensors will eat up APS-C and other smaller sensors. Change is a lot slower than most people think and SLRs actually benefit as well because many of the features that are present in mirrorless cameras are present on SLRS in live view mode.

Anyway, the decider for me is image quality and that seems to actually have been pretty stagnant for the last 4 to 5 years.
09-16-2018, 08:00 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I've just heard this for ages. Mirrorless cameras will destroy SLRs, full frame sensors will eat up APS-C and other smaller sensors. Change is a lot slower than most people think and SLRs actually benefit as well because many of the features that are present in mirrorless cameras are present on SLRS in live view mode.

Anyway, the decider for me is image quality and that seems to actually have been pretty stagnant for the last 4 to 5 years.
If image quality is the most important factor the you need to switch to medium format. The 645Z and the Fuji GFX-50 are both amazing cameras in terms of image quality for landscape and architectural photography.

Mirrorless cameras need their own lenses. The AF system of mirrorless is not the same as the AF system of a DSLR and the lenses are different. Simply switching to live view on a K-1 II AF) with a lens optimized for PDAF isn't going to give you the same experience as using a mirrorless camera with a lens designed for mirrorless AF. This is one of the main reasons adapted lenses don't work quite as well as native.


I know you shoot mostly landscapes and for that manual focus is all you really need. The #1 reason an amateur buys a camera today is to take pictures of their kids. The largest market segment for professionals is wedding and portrait which is why there is a large dedicated trade show just for wedding & portrait photography (WPPI). The advantages of mirrorless really standout when it comes to photographing people. I have said for years that DSLR manufacturers need to bring these features to the OVF with some type of hybrid OVF, but it appears that isn't going to happen. I assumed Canon and Nikon would develop a hybrid OVF that integrated the advantages of mirrorless into the DSLR and that would allow them to keep their existing systems and lock Sony out, but it doesn't appear that they have the technology to do that. Canon and Nikon wouldn't be developing new mirrorless FF systems if they did project significant growth in that segment.
09-16-2018, 08:39 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If image quality is the most important factor the you need to switch to medium format. The 645Z and the Fuji GFX-50 are both amazing cameras in terms of image quality for landscape and architectural photography.

Mirrorless cameras need their own lenses. The AF system of mirrorless is not the same as the AF system of a DSLR and the lenses are different. Simply switching to live view on a K-1 II AF) with a lens optimized for PDAF isn't going to give you the same experience as using a mirrorless camera with a lens designed for mirrorless AF. This is one of the main reasons adapted lenses don't work quite as well as native.


I know you shoot mostly landscapes and for that manual focus is all you really need. The #1 reason an amateur buys a camera today is to take pictures of their kids. The largest market segment for professionals is wedding and portrait which is why there is a large dedicated trade show just for wedding & portrait photography (WPPI). The advantages of mirrorless really standout when it comes to photographing people. I have said for years that DSLR manufacturers need to bring these features to the OVF with some type of hybrid OVF, but it appears that isn't going to happen. I assumed Canon and Nikon would develop a hybrid OVF that integrated the advantages of mirrorless into the DSLR and that would allow them to keep their existing systems and lock Sony out, but it doesn't appear that they have the technology to do that. Canon and Nikon wouldn't be developing new mirrorless FF systems if they did project significant growth in that segment.
Price is a bit of a factor for someone like me. Also,I do have four kids and take photos of them in various settings and while the K-1's auto focus isn't perfect, it is decent enough for my purposes. You are right, slow auto focus is fine, but I also find that pixel shift gives pretty nice bump in quality of images, even if it requires one to be shooting from a tripod and do a bit of extra processing after the fact.

Anyway, we have a wealth of riches at this point. Give a pro from 10 years ago a K-1 and DFA zooms and see what they think.

Canon and Nikon are excited about having a new mount. Yes, they will spin it in terms of having mirrorless features, but what they are excited about is all of the new lenses they will sell to folks making a transition who would have stayed with their old F or EOS mount lenses if they just upgraded to a D760 from their D750 or D610.
09-16-2018, 10:29 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I've just heard this for ages. Mirrorless cameras will destroy SLRs, full frame sensors will eat up APS-C and other smaller sensors. Change is a lot slower than most people think and SLRs actually benefit as well because many of the features that are present in mirrorless cameras are present on SLRS in live view mode.

Anyway, the decider for me is image quality and that seems to actually have been pretty stagnant for the last 4 to 5 years.
Lol, but isn’t that mostly in your own head, though? I never said mirrorless cameras would “destroy SLRs” and I never mentioned format wars at all. You’ve read all that into what wasn’t said. I do think that mirrorless cameras are likely to become the dominant mainstream form, something which strikes me as a reasonable evidence-based view. But that doesn’t mean the only form. For example as it stands today if I wanted a birding outfit I would choose a D500 and appropriate telephoto but for most anything else, for my purposes, I would choose mirrorless for the features and convenience.

IQ is important to me but not decisive. There are many other factors I look for in a camera system, and it is a system, including a company’s presence where I live. It’s how well the different qualities hang together which is key.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-16-2018 at 10:37 AM.
09-16-2018, 11:29 AM   #58
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You said,

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The sheer amount that can be done with technology and software in these new mirrorless cameras is going to pull them ahead of DSLRs over the next two or three years.
The implication of this statement is that SLRs are going to gradually go away as having been surpassed. I just think we have gotten to the place where most anything on the market is good enough and one can shoot with micro four thirds, as I think you do, or a K-1 and still have good quality photos. But the differences come down more to skill, and size of sensor than to mirrorless or not.
09-16-2018, 11:46 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You said,



The implication of this statement is that SLRs are going to gradually go away as having been surpassed. I just think we have gotten to the place where most anything on the market is good enough and one can shoot with micro four thirds, as I think you do, or a K-1 and still have good quality photos. But the differences come down more to skill, and size of sensor than to mirrorless or not.
Yup that is what I think, but it’s not the same as hyping it up and saying mirrorless will “destroy” SLRs in some sudden conflagration. In fact this handover may be more rapid than people suppose although not instant or total at all. While millions of DSLRs will continue to be out there, many languishing unused in closets while their owners use their phones, new products and the focus of R&D will increasingly be on mirrorless. So in terms of what sells and what’s available on retail shelves, mirrorless may become the mainstream new-camera choice in say three to five years rather than ten even while all those legacy SLRs are still around. That will likely be even more true of revenue compared to unit volumes The new Fuji XT3 is a fine example of what’s coming down the pike.

I agree that most formats and most cams are more than enough these days. But that’s not a position any sales-hungry camera company will take. The drive to spend, spend, spend will continue to be very powerful and quite likely to work. I’ve no plans to drink the Kool Aid, though. I prefer smaller kit.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-16-2018 at 12:20 PM.
09-16-2018, 11:47 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It’s how well the different qualities hang together which is key.
Yes,any enthusiast will look at what the product does and if the features suit their needs.

This new body, coupled with the continuing evolution of excellent to $uperb(they cost a lot) lenses,raises the bar for Apsc...The balls in $$$ony's court to show their new body.(rumoured to be A7000).

This new sensor/processor combination will filter down thru the Fuji body designations so that mid to high end buyers will again have a choice of what they want to use.

The graphic on this link indicates the prowess of this new stuff.






ŅCuŠnto mejora la velocidad de la X-T3 desde la X-Pro1 (pasando por X-T1 y X-T2)?





Heres another detailed review.



http://danbaileyphoto.com/blog/4th-generation-x-series-my-full-review-of-the-fujifilm-x-t3/

Last edited by surfar; 09-16-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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