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09-11-2018, 03:03 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
Didnt Pentax loose its market share because they refused to jump to digital.
Mirrorless is today's digital to DSLR.
They lost a lot of market share during the moves to AF and digital.
I'm not sure which was the most damaging - I jumped to Canon when I moved to AF, and came back just a few years ago {the space in my signature between the Super Program and Q-7 represents roughly twenty years}.

09-11-2018, 05:05 PM - 2 Likes   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
They will sell lots, they are IN the game.Prices are CaNik prices...Overpriced? Not from their users perspective.

You are absolutely correct. If we step out of the Pentax bubble, we'll see a lot of people used to spending more (and arguably getting more for the extra money spent).

The D850 for instance is a 3300 USD camera body and it still has spotty availability in some shops... demand is there.


We complain our big FF body is 1800 and when will a cut rate version be launched for 1000 dollars haha. It is just a different mindset.. the Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless bodies will sell in droves.
09-11-2018, 06:03 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
the Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless bodies will sell in droves.
Both will prove to be very comfortable for CaNik shooters, familiar Menu to start with.Superior ergonomics, the adaptors are OEM not third party.

Existing CaNikers only need the adapter and Canon came up with a smart way to do things.

They wont have stopped all the bleeding,just some.

Panasonic are coming in to play the game,they are a bigger threat to CaNik than $$$ony(at this stage,the cards are not all shown yet).

The sideshow is Fuji with Apsc and MF,they are well and truly in the game by the end of the month.

Olympus and Pentax will pick up the scraps.
09-11-2018, 09:01 PM   #79
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Unfortunately, after 9 years with Pentax DSLRs from the K-x to the K-1, I no longer have hope that Ricoh will fix the subpar AF system or the small lens selection in any reasonable timescale. After some hands on time with a D850 my mind was blown how much more advanced the other manufacturers' AF systems are, and viewing the third party lens selection is like a kid in a candy store. But I'm a firm believer now in mirrorless for the reasons of the EVF and lens adaptability.

I have had m4/3 cameras as my walkaround/video setup for awhile now to complement my Pentax DSLRs. In my experience EVFs are hands down superior to OVFs in low light situations, manual focus and judging exposure. In extremely dark situations (candlelight, moonlight, etc.) I can barely even see the scene with my K-1 and an A 50mm f/1.2, let alone tell if anything is in focus. I'd be lucky to hit focus in a dozen tries. Only way to work in those conditions is tripod and live view. Even in decent light, manual focus can be hit or miss for very fast lenses, since OVFs don't display DOF properly at large apertures.

On the other hand, with my GH5 and a 17.5mm f/0.95, in exactly the same lighting conditions I can clearly see the target thanks to EVF amplification (even with the relatively small and noisy m4/3 sensor), and can nail manual focus in the first try or so even on non-static subjects. They just pop into focus even in lighting where AF fails entirely. I always have a clear view of what the AE is metering off of in high contrast scenes, and accurately dial in compensation on the fly.

But the thing is, I know firsthand the limitations of the smaller, lower resolutions sensors even with "equivalence". Well exposed shots from m4/3 in decent lighting look good, but they quickly fall apart if you try to push them in post. Lower resolution means sharpening produces artifacts sooner, and noise reduction is more heavy handed. The higher noise and lower dynamic range means trying to push shadows very quickly looks downright ugly. The higher resolution, FF shots from my K-1 tolerate an astounding amount of pushing in post processing.

So I have been watching this new wave of FF mirrorless closely:

Canon EOS R is DOA for me, no IBIS and typical Canon intentional crippling are huge red flags.
Sony may have the most developed system, but there are still problems that turn me off like the "star eater" noise reduction, super expensive native lenses, and adapted third party lenses have limitation and spotty performance.
Nikon Z7 looks alright, but I feels like it's a bit underdeveloped for that exhorbitant price (and there are reports of problems with third party adapted lenses).
Panasonic has its yet to be announced FF mirrorless, but it's going to be hampered by limited lens availability as they're starting FF from scratch, and unless they've made some huge advancements since the GH5, their AF system is not exactly state-of-the-art

I may end up just waiting out this wave of first generation FF mirrorless systems for the second generation and developed lens lineups. Too many compromises right now for too high a price. I'm most curious about what Nikon is going to introduce next, as they seem like they're the ones most likely to make leaps to recapture market share from Canon, like abandoning in-lens stabilization for IBIS, or moving their top end D5 AF system to their lower end FF and even APS-C lines. After the criticism they've been getting (deserved or not), I have a feeling the next generation Z cameras are going to be the most improved.

09-11-2018, 10:24 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Panasonic has its yet to be announced FF mirrorless, but it's going to be hampered by limited lens availability
There will be hundreds of workable lenses on release, some of very high quality.Panasonic are going to do what no one else has.
09-12-2018, 01:23 AM   #81
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FF MILC, IMHO, doesnt offer many advantages over DSLR. In fact I can only see EVF in low light, but who hinders you to use the LCD screen on a Pentax DSLR for such situations?

The body of the cam might be smaller but the lenses arent. Even the top notch lenses for MFT are big, although a bit smaller and lighter than FF. But there you have some disadvantages of the small sensor. I have an Oly EM5 Mark II and in good light, its excellent. But as soon as the light goes away and ISO raises, the pictures dont please me. I had a K-5IIs for some time to test it and I like high ISO much more.

I will go Pentax FF as soon as I have the money. Maybe they have a FF body in the K5/K3 size until then, which I'd like more then the huge K-1. If not, It's K-1. And yes, so many people complain about AF but so many people OTOH dont have issues and shoot action. So, who is right?

PS: lens offerings from Pentax are ok for me. Other people may have other needs.

Last edited by yucafrita; 09-12-2018 at 02:50 AM.
09-12-2018, 02:39 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
There will be hundreds of workable lenses on release, some of very high quality.Panasonic are going to do what no one else has.
If a lot of the lenses they are releasing are Cine lenses, they will be out of most photographer's budget.
09-12-2018, 03:01 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If a lot of the lenses they are releasing are Cine lenses, they will be out of most photographer's budget.
Some will be for sure,but there will be lower priced glass too.

Most photographers who dabble in video(i'm one) dont use cine lenses.So its a non issue.

Most people who use cine lenses will use a dedicated video camera.

These Hybrid cameras both Dslr and M/L are for hobbyist/enthusiast level...but may be used as B cams in Pro enviroments.

We will know lots more in a few weeks.

09-12-2018, 08:28 AM   #84
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Wow! Must say that you guys are too rich for me. If this is not too expensive, then it is more than obvious. Good thing for me that I’m happy with my K-1, more than happy.
09-12-2018, 09:52 AM - 2 Likes   #85
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---------- Post added 12-09-18 at 19:52 ----------

So can we all stop complaining
09-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Do you have a link from someone who was big fan of OVF's changing their mind?

It sounds like it would be easy to find such a link.

4/30 the EVF info

09-12-2018, 03:45 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I no longer have hope that Ricoh will fix the subpar AF system or the small lens selection in any reasonable timescale.
It's to sad to see people leaving Pentax because the company passivity to release new products and fix issues, and I dont blame this people, I acually feel kind of the same, and yes, im actully considering jumping somewhere else that fits more what im looking for (camera+lenses); after K1 was release back in 2016 we were so exited about this reborn thing... but after almost 3 years nothing new really came to us, and on the other side of the road, there is a entire revolution of new products and technology... that turns into frustration.
09-12-2018, 04:06 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
on the other side of the road, there is a entire revolution of new products and technology... that turns into frustration.
I suppose it could for people whose mindset is just on the one system.

The K-1 is relatively complete from 15-450mm...Add the 50mm, then 85mm which might be here very soon.Wide primes and a TC are frustrating i suppose?
Lens development is a lot more intricate than body development, some people will jump,some will add(or already have) another system to achieve what they want.

What people have to realise(which many dont) is the smallest R&D team with the smallest budget has achieved a fair amount.Improvements will come with time.
09-12-2018, 04:35 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Improvements will come with time.
And time have always been playing against Pentax since early 2000's ..
09-12-2018, 04:35 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
What they got wrong - YouTube

---------- Post added 12-09-18 at 19:52 ----------

So can we all stop complaining
This probably should be compulsory viewing.

Of course, the underlying assumption is that people talk about cameras because they’re interested in taking photos (or even making pictures, or art). I know people who argue endlessly about cars, even though they’re not particularly good drivers.

The nub of this opinion-piece, though, is that most of the hype and argument is about pushing sales on the manufacturers’ side, and making excuses for failure on the users’ side, and (although it isn’t universally true) I reckon there’s a lot of truth in that.
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