[reh321]

What i listed costs more and MILLIONS of people are going to pay that price.

Reality check: the entire MILR market for 2017 was of about 4 million cameras (produced/shipped).
The top end cannot possibly be half of that.

Current price for the Z7 is $300 more than current price for the D850, which is still on backorder/allocation months after it was first introduced.
Nikon doesn't have to sell millions of the Z7 - they just have to sell them to the people who otherwise would have purchased an A7 ....
and from I what I saw yesterday, it could very easily succeed.

[Kunzite]

We'll see.
I don't expect either the Zs or the R to fail, but I don't expect the kind of outrageous success ("look! this is where Pentax could've been if only...") presented. The grass isn't that much greener.

[rawr]

What i listed costs more and MILLIONS of people are going to pay that price.

Speaking of MILLIONS of people, after seeing the new Apple phone launch this week, it reminded me that consumer camera/video budgets must be being hit hard by >$1000 smartphones (+ their monthly usage fees). With each device replaced every 24 months or less at great expense too. And several such phones per household is not unknown.

Unfortunately, while the new $4000 cameras from Nikon and Canon may take nice pictures, they don't run Tinder or Facebook.

[reh321]

We'll see.
I don't expect either the Zs or the R to fail, but I don't expect the kind of outrageous success ("look! this is where Pentax could've been if only...") presented. The grass isn't that much greener.

That is true.

Pentax is not Nikon - they don't produce the D850 or D500 either.

Pentax is not Canon - they don't give the user lots of choices at every step.

Pentax is Pentax - they produce solid cameras, mostly for people down the street.

[Kunzite]

That is true.

Pentax is not Nikon - they don't produce the D850 or D500 either.

Pentax is not Canon - they don't give the user lots of choices at every step.

Pentax is Pentax - they produce solid cameras, mostly for people down the street.

And actually, I keep looking at the new Canon R and Nikon Z - and, they don't really offer me much over the K-1 (ignoring the downsides for a moment). A frame rate no higher if I want LV/AF/metering. One card slot. Very few native lenses, and some choices are weird. DSLR prices.
But they will sell because they are Canon/Nikon.

[repaap]

And actually, I keep looking at the new Canon R and Nikon Z - and, they don't really offer me much over the K-1 (ignoring the downsides for a moment). A frame rate no higher if I want LV/AF/metering. One card slot. Very few native lenses, and some choices are weird. DSLR prices.
But they will sell because they are Canon/Nikon.

Imagine Pentax making Camera with specs like Z7. Then asking 4000 € Some might call them out of their mind. I could see Z6 kind Pentax product down the pipeline, but then again question would be why. To compete CaNiSoPa...? They would need to be unique. so, mirrorless with no video, high MP and slow burst. Almost reminds of K-01 thou.

edit: for landscape and studio, great AF too.

[reh321]

Imagine Pentax making Camera with specs like Z7. Then asking 4000 € Some might call them out of their mind. I could see Z6 kind Pentax product down the pipeline, but then again question would be why. To compete CaNiSoPa...? They would need to be unique. so, mirrorless with no video, high MP and slow burst. Almost reminds of K-01 thou.

edit: for landscape and studio, great AF too.

This kind of mental exercise cannot use Nikon-type thinking. In order to understand pricing of the Z7, you would have to understand pricing of the D850, because the Z7 has similar specs to D850 @ $300 more. So if Pentax were to make a K-0n, it would need K-1 or KP type specs for a few hundred dollars more. It would differ from K-01 by having EVF {main handicap of K-01}, perhaps be FF, faster burst, larger queue, and still use K-mount. In other words, it would have strengths of current DSLR camera, but improve on their areas of weakness. That would be the Pentax approach to this kind of product.

[repaap]

This kind of mental exercise cannot use Nikon-type thinking. In order to understand pricing of the Z7, you would have to understand pricing of the D850, because the Z7 has similar specs to D850 @ $300 more. So if Pentax were to make a K-0n, it would need K-1 or KP type specs for a few hundred dollars more. It would differ from K-01 by having EVF {main handicap of K-01}, perhaps be FF, faster burst, larger queue, and still use K-mount. In other words, it would have strengths of current DSLR camera, but improve on their areas of weakness. That would be the Pentax approach to this kind of product.

Well I do understand that. But is z7 similar specs than D850. No. Almost but not quite there. Shortcomings have been through many places. But pentax could put big sensor, great sealings, 2 card slot with latest things and boost writing/buffer speed. So it could be little higher that K-1(if they would go there). Still if they would put prize in 3000 range..not so many would just buy it. Anyway, this was just mindplay, not real life thingy. Carry on.

[Kunzite]

Imagine Pentax making Camera with specs like Z7. Then asking 4000 € Some might call them out of their mind. I could see Z6 kind Pentax product down the pipeline, but then again question would be why. To compete CaNiSoPa...? They would need to be unique. so, mirrorless with no video, high MP and slow burst. Almost reminds of K-01 thou.

edit: for landscape and studio, great AF too.

Both ideas would flop.
The price is obviously too high for a Pentax.
Then, sorry, but this idea of "unique" is a guaranteed failure. No video? They're far from the best, but they do have video on their DSLRs because it's required (even as a checkbox). Slow burst? You mean, slower than 5 fps?

[surfar]

I'm deeply skeptical of this.

I didnt mean on the release day,the client base of CaNik is a majority of ILC users...Millions will buy into the new tech but theres development to come from both companies.

Reality check: the entire MILR market for 2017 was of about 4 million cameras (produced/shipped).

Yes,did i say millions in one year?...The life cycle/develoment of newer models is unknown.

Reality Check1: People are buying ILC M/L every year.

Reality Check 2:CaNik are in genre and Panasonic will soon be there.A fair client base to sell to.

The top end cannot possibly be half of that.

What is the "top end"...you may perceive its K-1 price level but thats entry level for FF.CaNik buyers have been paying a lot more than Pentax users.Panasonic users have been paying "top end" prices for 1/4 the sensor size.Mind you i'm expecting Panasonics FF to be top end.

---------- Post added 09-15-18 at 08:31 AM ----------

I keep looking at the new Canon R and Nikon Z - and, they don't really offer me much over the K-1

Yes, its all the other people that they offer all the advantages to.

[reh321]

Well I do understand that. But is z7 similar specs than D850. No. Almost but not quite there. Shortcomings have been through many places. But pentax could put big sensor, great sealings, 2 card slot with latest things and boost writing/buffer speed. So it could be little higher that K-1(if they would go there). Still if they would put prize in 3000 range..not so many would just buy it. Anyway, this was just mindplay, not real life thingy. Carry on.

3000 what? US Dollars? Euros? Yen? You need to put a currency indicator in there.

The K-1ii is currently just under $1900. I see no reason for the camera we're talking about to be much over $2000.

[RobA_Oz]

3000 what? US Dollars? Euros? Yen? You need to put a currency indicator in there.

The K-1ii is currently just under $1900. I see no reason for the camera we're talking about to be much over $2000.

Pricing is going to be interesting, as I imagine they won’t want to detract from their ongoing DSLR offerings, “ongoing” being the operative word.

[lesmore49]

I'm deeply skeptical of this. These are expensive products that appeal to a minority of photographers (essentially to photographers with special needs and/or upgrade junkies). The local camera club where I live has somewhere around sixty members. I don't see a single person in the club buying one of the Canikon mirrorless. The systems are just too expensive and very few of the members care about the technology. No one in the club other than myself does video. Only three people club ever use burst mode (probably half the people in the club don't even know what burst mode is). The vast majority of club members are shooting with APS-C DSLRs. Why? Because they provide the best bang for the buck. We've had five people migrate to Sony FF mirrorless. They all bought the original A7 and they did so primarily because of price. They're rather lukewarmish about Sony and have come to absolutely despise lens adapters (because they're not technically accomplished enough to get the darn adapters to work with their Nikon lenses).

My sister's an accomplished book cover photographer. She's still shooting with a Nikon D7000 and probably won't replace that camera until it gives out. She knows quite a few photographers, mostly female, doing stock photography with (primariliy) APS-C DSLRs. The biggest complaint these photographers is not that their DSLRs don't have high enough burst rates or aren't good enough at video or any of that bells and whistles hype, but that digital cameras in general are too complex. Mirrorless cameras seem to be catering to the deep pocket gearhead/neophilia crowd, I'm not convinced that those people represent the majority of serious photographers. There are quite a few photographers out there, many of them female, who are more artistic than technical in orientation, and if you tried to sell them on the (primarilty) technical virtues of mirrorless cameras, they would look at you as if you were a crazy person in desperate need of some TLC. The problem with mirrorless is that, despite it's technically advantages (most of which involve features the majority of photographers either don't need or wouldn't have the technical wherewithal to access), it doesn't produce images that are any better than what you can get out of a DSLR.

I'm not a deep pocket gearhead, although I would like to be. I would need to win a lottery...a really big, substantial one....and then I could be a spendthrift.
I already know what I would buy, given this extravagant fantasy...the Pentax 645, Canon 5D$, Nikon D850, Leica 240 rangefinder, SL and while I'm at it, give me one of those Monochroms...and then the Canon R and the Nikon Z's but make that the top of the line Z7.

I do agree with you. Many photographers the avid amateurs of which I count myself as one...are not going to get these new mirrorless cameras. For most there is only so much budget available and ASP-C is the best bang for the buck. They may eventually work there way up there as cash flow improves, but maybe not...so much to choose from and who wants to start having to buy another lens mount when it comes to lenses.

[Kunzite]

Yes,did i say millions in one year?...The life cycle/develoment of newer models is unknown.

Reality Check1: People are buying ILC M/L every year.

Reality Check 2:CaNik are in genre and Panasonic will soon be there.A fair client base to sell to.

I see... you're giving no time frame, extending it to all MILC makers, to yet non-existent models and rumors and so on. Yes, you can eventually reach your "millions" this way. But, spelling this out doesn't make it look as impressive

Besides, it looks like your list is not implemented in these new MILCs (those that exist). The AF doesn't appear to be up with the corresponding DSLRs', the native lens selection is (naturally) extremely poor and forces you to adapt SLR lenses, video is not state of the art, the service should be the same as for the corresponding DSLRs.
Which means those points don't actually drive the sales.

Yes, its all the other people that they offer all the advantages to.

Do you honestly believe that everyone else here is scrambling to sell their Pentax gear in order to buy an R/Z6/7?

[surfar]

NEWS

Canon will release their high end R body in 2019 as well as 2 Apsc bodies.I dont know what mount the Apsc bodies are?

Panasonic will ATTACK, their body is high end.High resolution,high end video and FAST.Interestingly they are sticking with their existing AF(but with a twist).

---------- Post added 09-15-18 at 10:20 AM ----------

Do you honestly believe that everyone else here is scrambling to sell their Pentax gear in order to buy an R/Z6/7?

Whats that got to do with anything? Individual choice is just that.You are here commenting on gear that you cant use because it gives you headaches.

---------- Post added 09-15-18 at 10:29 AM ----------

The AF doesn't appear to be up with the corresponding DSLRs',

Says who?

All the people who are familiar with the systems dont....Theres many reviewers who havent even read the spec sheets,they dont know the capabilities.

the native lens selection is (naturally) extremely poor

Yes, theres other mounts like that 30 months after announcement.

video is not state of the art,

Which consumer cameras are?