[northcoastgreg]

True. But the amount of time one would spend looking through an EVF would be very small compared to computer time (PP)

The potential issue is that most photographers use not merely one eye, but the same eye, when looking through the viewfinder. If evidence were to surface that EVF's contributed, even if only a small amount, to issues in one eye, that would certainly put a new perspective on the whole "mirrorless is the future" narrative that's being shoved down everyone's throats. In any case, I think tech-minded people are way too quick to predict the demise of various formats. Most of the technological advantages of mirrorless involve issues that the majority of serious photographers don't care about. Burst rate, video, mirror-slap --- only tech nerds and some pros care much about that stuff. Half the photographers in our local camera club don't even know what burst rate is and wouldn't know how to access it if you explained it to them. Technology may change, but human nature remains the same, and if a technology cannot be fully adapted to human nature, it won't become universal.

[normhead]

Last time I tried an EVF there was considerable lag in low light situations. How is the low light lag thing coming? Have they found away to boost frame rate when the shutter speed falls below 1/30s.

I regularly shoot at 1/15s or less. As away of getting maximum DR in low light situations.) How do the Mirrorless cameras cope these days? My evaluation (four years ago) was the it was totally unacceptable for panning in the viewfinder at low shutter speeds. This one taken out of a 1/15s burst.... what happens when your shutter speed gets this low with a more recent EVF?
Inquiring minds want to know.



My objection to EVF is completely based not on opinion, but on lack of functionality in some situations. But, I'm also not shopping for camera so it's moot.

[repaap]

Remember cold fusion??

No, but looked it up from wikipedia just for fun and to get general idea. Seems that Pons and Feichmann made a little mess. Have to remind you that this happened when I was about 13, so could not have been less interested. But they have been worried back then. there has been fallouts, oil spills and what not. NOw they don't count those even news anymore. But this is getting furher away from EVF let alone blue light.

---------- Post added 09-10-18 at 18:16 ----------

Last time I tried an EVF there was considerable lag in low light situations. How is the low light lag thing coming? Have they found away to boost frame rate when the shutter speed falls below 1/30s.

I regularly shoot at 1/15s or less. As away of getting maximum DR in low light situations.) How do the Mirrorless cameras cope these days? My evaluation (four years ago) was the it was totally unacceptable for panning in the viewfinder at low shutter speeds. This one taken out of a 1/15s burst.... what happens when your shutter speed gets this low with a more recent EVF?
Inquiring minds want to know.



My objection to EVF is completely based not on opinion, but on lack of functionality in some situations. But, I'm also not shopping for camera so it's moot.

Nice shot!

[reh321]

No, but looked it up from wikipedia just for fun and to get general idea. Seems that Pons and Feichmann made a little mess. Have to remind you that this happened when I was about 13, so could not have been less interested. But they have been worried back then. there has been fallouts, oil spills and what not. NOw they don't count those even news anymore. But this is getting furher away from EVF let alone blue light.

The point is that "cold fusion" ran into the so-called "Scientific Method" - other scientists were unable to replicate their results. My Mother-in-Law subscribes to a magazine called "Prevention", which is the bane of my wife because each new edition seems to have a similarly-unsupported health scare ...and this "blue light" issue fits into that pattern. Until they get people like Harvard Medical School on board, it is just another theory with no support and no use other than to build strawmen in discussions like this.

You are correct about one thing - this is a side show, not really relevant to whether people will purchase MILC of any size.

[awscreo]

I think the second gen of canikons will be much better than what they entered with (as happened to Sony, Olympus and Panasonic). I personally not planning to switch for few more years, and I'd like to support Pentax in future as well, if the future K-1 upgrade will be as amazing as K-1 is when it came out, or they introduce a Milc system of their own (who knows).

[repaap]

The point is that "cold fusion" ran into the so-called "Scientific Method" - other scientists were unable to replicate their results. My Mother-in-Law subscribes to a magazine called "Prevention", which is the bane of my wife because each new edition seems to have a similarly-unsupported health scare ...and this "blue light" issue fits into that pattern. Until they get people like Harvard Medical School on board, it is just another theory with no support and no use other than to build strawmen in discussions like this.

You are correct about one thing - this is a side show, not really relevant to whether people will purchase MILC of any size.

I actually searched for professionally made research about(quickly because of this discussion) 'blue light'. Found one from Internet. research was made 2012(university at Finland, Itä-Suomi) But it also included magnetic pulse to it. There are too many variables to be precise. But even back then(not so long a go) they could see the change in molecyles(mutation) affected to blue light, and more so with magnet and blue light. They could repeat it, but they were not absolutelly sure of what eventually made THE change.

Now, I would not completelly put this to 'cold Fusion' gategory, but it is true that it is somewhere in between. And that is why there are so many 'scientists' taking advantage of it.

[photoptimist]

Isn't that the same issue? Beause electronic shutters are so slow the jelly effect get worse and flash sync will be too slow.

But as soon as electronic shutter gets as fast as or faster than mechanical shutters there will not be much advantage of mechhanical shutters.

Quite true!

And yet implementing a faster or global electronic shutter is both electronically expensive and makes it harder to maintain high-DR. For large-area silicon sensors, the best image quality comes from slower reading of a simpler sensor that is kept cold and non-energized except for taking the one shot that matters. Adding PDAF, global shutter, video, etc. adds costs and it compromises the essential function of the imager. Running the sensor full-time for an EVF and AF makes the sensor hotter and noisier.

DSLRs may be mechanically complex but MILCs come with electronic complexity.

[normhead]

I think it's not good to be attached to any kind of camera. If you've tried the latest mirrorless cameras but prefer DSLRs, hey that's great. On the other hand, if the time comes when DSLRs become scarce, you could probably be pretty happy with mirrorless, too.

Exactly, buy what you need. And don't listen to what anyone else thinks you need. I'm not buying a Sony A9 for one wedding every 25 years, but for 15-20 a year I might.

[rawr]

Last time I tried an EVF there was considerable lag in low light situations. How is the low light lag thing coming?

A very pertinent question. Not just about lag, but lots of noise on both the rear display and the EVF in low-light.

I remember being very disappointed by the performance in low-light of the first camera EVF I tried (the Sony NEX-F3 with the external XGA viewfinder). The A6000's EVF doesn't do much better. Bright conditions and you are OK, low-light and things degrade.

I wonder if things have improved much with the current generations of EVF displays.

[normhead]

A very pertinent question. Not just about lag, but lots of noise on both the rear display and the EVF in low-light.

I remember being very disappointed by the performance in low-light of the first camera EVF I tried (the Sony NEX-F3 with the external XGA viewfinder). The A6000's EVF doesn't do much better. Bright conditions and you are OK, low-light and things degrade.

I wonder if things have improved much with the current generations of EVF displays.

Now there would be a conversation about Mirrorless I'd be interested in.

[photoptimist]

A very pertinent question. Not just about lag, but lots of noise on both the rear display and the EVF in low-light.

I remember being very disappointed by the performance in low-light of the first camera EVF I tried (the Sony NEX-F3 with the external XGA viewfinder). The A6000's EVF doesn't do much better. Bright conditions and you are OK, low-light and things degrade.

I wonder if things have improved much with the current generations of EVF displays.

This is a fundamental problem in physics (not technology) for EVFs. It cannot be solved because there's simply not enough photons coming from the scene to form an image that is BOTH low-lag AND low-noise.

Shutter time is an unavoidable source of EVF lag in MILCs. It's not a problem in broad daylight but in low light that means either having a long lag or boosting the ISO to grainy levels.

[surfar]

I wonder if things have improved much with the current generations of EVF displays.

Well if you remember the time that RI was asked about M/L and their answer was that there isnt a EVF that they rate as good enough?

It was a couple of years ago,well now lately(A9,A7r3,A7iii,XH-1,GFX50S,Panasonics GH5and S and G9) the 3.7mill EVFs are highly regarded by both people who like EVFs and OVFs(apart from the eyestrain sufferers).

Also,the next generation EVF is imminent(maybe in the next $$$ony FF?).

Now there would be a conversation about Mirrorless I'd be interested in.

[reh321]

This is a fundamental problem in physics (not technology) for EVFs. It cannot be solved because there's simply not enough photons coming from the scene to form an image that is BOTH low-lag AND low-noise.

Shutter time is an unavoidable source of EVF lag in MILCs. It's not a problem in broad daylight but in low light that means either having a long lag or boosting the ISO to grainy levels.

I noticed yesterday that my Q-7 seems to have shutter lag in low light conditions.

[reh321]

When I was at our camera store today, I noticed they are having a Z6/7 seminar on Thursday. I'm not going to the seminar, but if I remember, I might go to the "show and tell" so I can truthfully say that I have handled one of them.

[photoptimist]

I noticed yesterday that my Q-7 seems to have shutter lag in low light conditions.

Indeed!

The EVF can't show you what the sensor sees until after the sensor outputs the data. And the sensor can't output the data until it's gathered enough light for a usable image. In low-light, the latest and greatest high frames-per-second sensor and EVF is useless because the system has to wait for the photons to arrive.