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09-18-2018, 04:09 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And how many are affordable for a non-pro enthusiast....
I agree with much of your post, Norm... However:

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
In what warped mind is what I might want in the future ( but probably won't) put ahead of what i do want now?
... I don't see anything warped about someone choosing a system that covers all the bases they might need. Sure, they might not exercise that versatility... most probably won't. And in that sense, it may be an unnecessary consideration. But I can see the attraction, even though it's not something you or I are particularly bothered about.

09-18-2018, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, that's part of the silliness. A D500 is $2400, add a $1600 lens and that's $4000 to go Nikon. He can go to $4000 for a Nikon system but can't spend $1900 to upgrade his Pentax gear. What folks say doesn't have to make any sense, and frequency it doesn't.

But if he is buying the camera just for AF and BiFs, then it's still the right thing to do. The camera as an action camera is drool worthy. For most of what I do it's not significantly better than a K-3ii.

Its all personal preference. When you think about it $1000 for top flight AF is cheap, if that's what you need.
It is currently $1900 for a new D500 and 350 dollars less for a factory refurb at B&H. Nikon holds sales in the Spring and late Autumn where the brand new ones go for even less and get bundled with the factory grip. That's when I'd buy if I was in the market.

Definitely not costing 2400 dollars for him in Maryland.
09-18-2018, 04:22 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I agree with much of your post, Norm... However:



... I don't see anything warped about someone choosing a system that covers all the bases they might need. Sure, they might not exercise that versatility... most probably won't. And in that sense, it may be an unnecessary consideration. But I can see the attraction, even though it's not something you or I are particularly bothered about.
True if you have unlimited income. You can cover unlimited possibilities I guess. But are you going to buy something you won't use much if it means giving up something else you'd actually use quite a lot. It's all about personal circumstance. If I can't spend more than $1600 on a lens, there's no need for me to be interested in Nikon or Canon. The to die for Canon 24 is $2400. I'm sure I'd love it, but I'm not comfortable with what I'd have to give up to get it. If you don't have to give anything up, then buy what ever you want. But in this case, the limit on lens spending in part negates the utility of Nikon lenses.
09-18-2018, 04:25 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
True if you have unlimited income. You can cover unlimited possibilities I guess. But are you going to buy something you won't use much if it means giving up something else you'd actually use quite a lot. It's all about personal circumstance. If I can't spend more than $1600 on lens, there's no need for me to be interested in Nikon or Canon. The to die for Canon 24 is $2400. I'm sure I'd love it, but I'm not comfortable with what I'd have to give up to get it. If you don't have to give anything up, then buy what ever you want.
Yes, agreed. In fact, I'd take it just a little further still... For me personally, I'd be happy (in fact, I am happy) to accept versatility that's limited to my current needs, and even accept shooting within those limitations if I should ever risk wanting more, if the quality of the cameras and lenses is good, and - importantly for me - fits within my available and projected budget. Much as I love my photography and gear, it's not the only thing in my life, and I have limited funds

09-18-2018, 04:40 PM - 1 Like   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
It is currently $1900 for a new D500 and 350 dollars less for a factory refurb at B&H. Nikon holds sales in the Spring and late Autumn where the brand new ones go for even less and get bundled with the factory grip. That's when I'd buy if I was in the market.

Definitely not costing 2400 dollars for him in Maryland.
I just priced the Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 ... 1400 dollars.

So it isn't 4000 dollars for him to shoot with that setup its closer to 3300 dollars or less if he goes with a refurb or waits for the biannual sales.
09-18-2018, 05:12 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I just priced the Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 ... 1400 dollars.

So it isn't 4000 dollars for him to shoot with that setup its closer to 3300 dollars or less if he goes with a refurb or waits for the biannual sales.
D500 + 300 F4 lens is going to be around $3,900. With the lens you mention, that comes down $500. Assuming he buys new.

K-1II with 150-450 lens will be $3,600. Decisions, decisions.....
09-18-2018, 06:38 PM - 1 Like   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
D500 + 300 F4 lens is going to be around $3,900. With the lens you mention, that comes down $500. Assuming he buys new.

K-1II with 150-450 lens will be $3,600. Decisions, decisions.....
The 200-500mm is actually the lens he mentioned. So I used that since that is what he had in mind.


Between a D500 with 200-500 f/5.6 and a K-1 II with a 150-450mm f/variable you're in two different categories. D500 has more reach, farrrrrrr farr farrr deeper buffer, faster shutter, hugely improved AF system and a bit more reach. K-1 II setup has much higher IQ and 1 stop extra ISO performance.. on advantages.

There is no way I'd pick a Pentax today if I was a non-static wildlife shooter. Even the crop system. Despite a few upset people claiming otherwise, the system isn't designed for that.


OTOH, If I was dabbling in wildlife but did more landscape, architecture, or static shooting there is no way I'd chose a D500 for it. It isn't designed for that.
09-18-2018, 07:12 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Is that worth it?
Part of me says yes - switching systems is going to hurt regardless, but if I'm shooting wildlife primarily and switch now I'll see the benefits I'm looking for and can build my other gear back up over time.
Also, for a couple hundred bucks I could get a few fast primes to hold me over...
Part of me says no - WAIT FOR THE K-3II SUCCESSOR! ... When the D500 came out I was thinking about switching but decided to wait... It's been a while now and I'm still waiting.
I'm worried that the K-3ii successor, whenever it does finally come out, will not meet my needs in terms of AF performance and tracking. But if it does, I would gladly stay with Pentax.
Only you can decide if its worth it. I think we are close enough to a K-3II successor that you might want to wait and see, but I have not seen any indication that Ricoh will provide you with the AF speed and accuracy that you want.

That said. If I was going to make a switch right now it would not be for the D500. For BIF I would look at the Olympus OMD-EM1II or the new Fuji XT-3. Both are a little more than a Nikon D500, but the AF accuracy is pretty amazing for both.

09-18-2018, 07:16 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Thank you for the thought out response.
I agree, the K-3ii with my currently lenses work wonderfully for stationary subjects. It's tracking any motion with AF that gets troublesome. Sounds like either a new lens for the K-3ii or the D500. But either way I need to look for something else.
I would also point you to the large market you are overlooking the used market in the F mount.

Most of the time the 300 pf goes around $1500-2000, 200-500 $1000-1300. 200-400F4 $1600-2500, 200-400f4VRII $2500-3900. One of the people I shoot with purchased a 200-400 mrk I for under $1700

Sigma its not too hard to find glass for Nikon also sigma150-600 sport $ 1200-1400, 300 2.8 $1500-2000, 120-300 1500-2000

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 09-18-2018 at 07:37 PM.
09-18-2018, 07:41 PM   #130
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Yeah maybe I'm just seeing low prices but I see D500 for around $1200 and the 200-500 around $950.
That's not bad in my opinion. I can't get a K-1ii and a DFA150-450 for even close to that.

If the D500 combo was $4000 I wouldn't even be considering it... I'd be DFA150-450 all day and call it done.

If I sold all my current gear I could get the D500 + 200-500 + Sigma 18-35 F1.8 Art at no additional cost.
Or drop the 18-35 and get a better piece of telephoto glass...

I really do worry though, as I shoot macro and landscape and other shots maybe 15% of the time. This would be my only camera and I use it for family travels as well. Certainly the D500 is likely capable, but as others have said it's not designed for that.
I guess that's where a backup mirrorless FF could come in handy... $$$$ hahaha
09-18-2018, 07:51 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
the 200-500 around $950.
I have no idea of the price but the next Bigma is starting to surface.

60-600mm F6.3 at the long end.
09-18-2018, 08:02 PM   #132
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That's the issue.. you're going to spend money either way. But probably more switching to another brand unless you buy used or find really nice retail sales.


When I sold most of my Pentax gear (K-1 and a bunch of lenses) to go Nikon last year, it covered a brand new D750+OEM Grip+24-120 f/4, Nikkor 16-35 f/4, Flashpoint (Godox) Xpro flash transmitter, a pair of Flashpoint R2 Flashes (one used at a nice price around Christmas), and a used Sigma 105 f/2.8 Macro.. I threw in another ~1100 bucks for a Tamron 100-400mm and a 45mm f/1.8


I had crunched the numbers many times beforehand as well as tried out the camera, as it is a pretty big step to shift systems. I'd recommend you do the same and consider it in a realistic manner. Once you move, it is likely going to cost you should you realize you made a mistake. So now isn't the time for getting hyped on the internet hype train one way or the other. Now is time to soberly consider your actions.

If you haven't tried the D500 for all you know you may not click with it. So I'd recommend finding some place or someone with it and give it a trial. So please make sure you experience these for yourself before committing.
09-18-2018, 08:09 PM   #133
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Btw the D500 is bigger and heavier than your K-3 II and the 200-500 f/5.6 is massive and heavy compared to your DA* 300mm.


That is something that text or video reviews cannot really fully explain.. you have to lift that rig for yourself to see if it makes sense for you. Same goes for a K-1 and FF lenses like the 150-450... its beefy.
09-18-2018, 08:21 PM   #134
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Others have already explained what I would have said.
09-18-2018, 09:45 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, that's part of the silliness. A D500 is $2400, add a $1600 lens and that's $4000 to go Nikon. He can go to $4000 for a Nikon system but can't spend $1900 to upgrade his Pentax gear. What folks say doesn't have to make any sense, and frequency it doesn't.
He wouldn't be taking $4000 out of his pocket. The original post, quoted below, stated he was considering a dedicated wildlife system by selling his Pentax gear. He's willing to sacrifice other areas of photography that he seldom indulges in. B&H currently has the D500 plus 200-500 for $3300 new, $2700 used. Selling his Pentax camera and lenses might bring in most of that money.

You've made some good comments but it also looks like you want to keep fighting just to be right.

QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
...I jotted down some rough figures. I could likely sell ALL my Pentax gear (listed below) and be able to fund a D500 and the 200-500 F5.6. But I wouldn't be able to replace the other lenses I currently own! ... Is that worth it?Part of me says yes - switching systems is going to hurt regardless, but if I'm shooting wildlife primarily and switch now I'll see the benefits I'm looking for and can build my other gear back up over time.Also, for a couple hundred bucks I could get a few fast primes to hold me over...
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