[RGlasel]

isn't that red circle logo one of the biggest upgrades of all?

Not in this case. Leica Camera AG is 45% owned by The Blackstone Group and pays licensing fees to Leica Microsystems GmbH, the microscope manufacturer. If you wanted to sell Leica brand wiper blades, you could probably cut a deal.

[automorphism]

I think it's actually a good sign for us that there's such fierce competition now with all these mounts. It means that people are still interested in photography and cameras, despite so many people using their cellphones these days. I'm not too concerned with who survives, either. I just want a good camera. And just because a camera manufacturer happens to go out of business, doesn't mean I have to stop using the camera I bought from them. I'm still using the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, and I wouldn't be surprised my copy (still looks pretty good) outlives a bunch of camera businesses.

[surfar]

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[reh321]

I think it's actually a good sign for us that there's such fierce competition now with all these mounts. It means that people are still interested in photography and cameras, despite so many people using their cellphones these days. I'm not too concerned with who survives, either. I just want a good camera. And just because a camera manufacturer happens to go out of business, doesn't mean I have to stop using the camera I bought from them. I'm still using the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, and I wouldn't be surprised my copy (still looks pretty good) outlives a bunch of camera businesses.

I'm glad your Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 is still giving you good service. Lubrication in mine seems to be giving out - focusing to infinity is a real struggle.

[automorphism]

I'm glad your Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 is still giving you good service. Lubrication in mine seems to be giving out - focusing to infinity is a real struggle.

Haha, ok, maybe I spoke to soon!

[stevebrot]

I'm glad your Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 is still giving you good service. Lubrication in mine seems to be giving out - focusing to infinity is a real struggle.

That is a shame. It can be lubed.


Steve

[pinholecam]

All these new mounts coming out...during such a brief period....L Mount alliance, new Nikon, Canon mounts...the seeming ascendance of mirrorless. Makes me think there's going to be a significant marketing war going on...fighting for dominance in the market place. As in any struggle there are likely to be casualties and it will be interesting to see who.

Also are Canon and Nikon going to continue to develop within their respective organizations...both their DSLR and their new mirrorless systems ? Will the new L Mount alliance be able to compete with Nikon and Canon mirrorless and of course their DSLR systems ?

I guess I could say it doesn't make any difference to me as I don't have a dog in this fight...or do I.... as I use Pentax DSLR.

Interesting times we live in and when all the dust settles...who will survive and prosper, who will not ?

IMO, its going to be a bit of like when Canon had the head start from SLR to DSR.
So Sony is the new Canon in this new race. (market share, brand presence for MILC, lenses)
The only problem with it being "DSLR race 2.0" is that we moved from film to digital which had new technical challenges and improvements to how we do/use/view photography.
The move from DSLR to MILC is different in that a DSLR user has less incentive to move to MILCs so long as their current equipment is valid for the user's needs.
Its fundamentally an interface and handling change rather than one that changes the medium or obsoletes DSLRs in taking good photos.

So I think we will see a scramble for 1st and 2nd position, and the rest will make little money in this war.
The market has already shrunk and the take up rate among existing photo equipment users won't be as fast.

[lesmore49]

IMO, its going to be a bit of like when Canon had the head start from SLR to DSR.
So Sony is the new Canon in this new race. (market share, brand presence for MILC, lenses)
The only problem with it being "DSLR race 2.0" is that we moved from film to digital which had new technical challenges and improvements to how we do/use/view photography.
The move from DSLR to MILC is different in that a DSLR user has less incentive to move to MILCs so long as their current equipment is valid for the user's needs.
Its fundamentally an interface and handling change rather than one that changes the medium or obsoletes DSLRs in taking good photos.

So I think we will see a scramble for 1st and 2nd position, and the rest will make little money in this war.
The market has already shrunk and the take up rate among existing photo equipment users won't be as fast.

I agree with your assessment. I think the mirrorless race will be like musical chairs..., but with Nikon, Canon and Sony vying for the last two chairs.

[biz-engineer]

So I think we will see a scramble for 1st and 2nd position, and the rest will make little money in this war.The market has already shrunk and the take up rate among existing photo equipment users won't be as fast.

Interesting opinion that let me thinking. Actually, the way I see it is each company see the market shrinking and having to pay their bills, their approach is to offer a broad range of product and be pragmatic with regard to what product they will discontinue or not. Sigma and Tamron continue to release lenses for DSLR mounts and they'll also make new lenses for MILC mounts. In fact there is a lot of reuse of parts and IP between DSLR and MILC, and so the goal is to grab money from every source. IMO we will not see an all MILC approach with abandon of DSLR, the proportion of investments and new products will depend on adoption. Businesses are very pragmatic, they don't drop products/technologies as long as there is money to be made out of it. Film to digital was very different in a way that the digital workflow was revolutionary making it very easy to take pictures to everyone, and there was a lot of growth. Currently there is no such revolution with mirrorless, as you say, it's basically a minor change in the user interface, it's not really pulling the masses, and MILC has been around for a very long time with small sensors, it just that EVF implementation moved up to apscu43 and then full frame and MF. MILC is a way to extend the market life cycle of the digital camera market by giving a reason to people to buy something new as opposed to keeping their DSLR until it breaks.

[surfar]

The market has already shrunk and the take up rate among existing photo equipment users won't be as fast.

I think the mirrorless race will be like musical chairs..., but with Nikon, Canon and Sony

There are plenty of chairs!

Smartphones are the biggest threat to any sort of camera,YES it maybe hard to imagine but AI will come into things in a big way.Sooner than later.

The "market" has peaked for Dslrs...they are in decline.M/L whatever sensor, is holding its own and may increase bit by bit now the big boys are in the game Ff !

$$$ony has a head start,CaNik are chasing their old customers.The stragglers will pick up the crumbs.

The market will demand technically advanced gear, the young people growing up with Puta games and Smartphones will ensure that demand will always be there.

[pinholecam]

Interesting opinion that let me thinking. Actually, the way I see it is each company see the market shrinking and having to pay their bills, their approach is to offer a broad range of product and be pragmatic with regard to what product they will discontinue or not. Sigma and Tamron continue to release lenses for DSLR mounts and they'll also make new lenses for MILC mounts. In fact there is a lot of reuse of parts and IP between DSLR and MILC, and so the goal is to grab money from every source. IMO we will not see an all MILC approach with abandon of DSLR, the proportion of investments and new products will depend on adoption. Businesses are very pragmatic, they don't drop products/technologies as long as there is money to be made out of it. Film to digital was very different in a way that the digital workflow was revolutionary making it very easy to take pictures to everyone, and there was a lot of growth. Currently there is no such revolution with mirrorless, as you say, it's basically a minor change in the user interface, it's not really pulling the masses, and MILC has been around for a very long time with small sensors, it just that EVF implementation moved up to apscu43 and then full frame and MF. MILC is a way to extend the market life cycle of the digital camera market by giving a reason to people to buy something new as opposed to keeping their DSLR until it breaks.

Thru my meeting with people who are shooting (using various brands), I am actually surprised that a fair number of people I meet are using their existing equipment.
These may be older D700, 5DIII, 5DII, D610, etc.
The MILC users are a mix of those who bought one because they are recent entrants to the hobby and those who chase the latest stuff.
Even for these, they are keeping to their 2-3yr old camera and not really buying the latest camera for their brand.
This is a marked difference to the early years with digital where I observed that more people were upgrading on a yearly, 2yr basis.

Even for myself, I have a K1 and A7, and I am at the point where I'd only buy a new camera if one of them breaks down.

There will still be money to be made for the top 2 MILC makers and there will certainly be growth as people new to the hobby will simply buy them as they are what's available.
All within a diminished market that can't be compared to the DSLR boom years.

[stevebrot]

I agree with your assessment. I think the mirrorless race will be like musical chairs..., but with Nikon, Canon and Sony vying for the last two chairs.

I agree. If well-implemented, the Panasonic camera is sort of a no-brainer. The other three will be scrambling for market share. The big question is whether Fuji and Olympus sales will suffer as a result of the general turmoi.


Steve

[stevebrot]

There are plenty of chairs!

Yep! Money for nothing for anyone wanting to buy a camera...NOT! The market size overall is contracting.


Steve

[lesmore49]

I agree. If well-implemented, the Panasonic camera is sort of a no-brainer. The other three will be scrambling for market share. The big question is whether Fuji and Olympus sales will suffer as a result of the general turmoi.


Steve

Yes, I think it will be very interesting to see how the mirrorless camera 'universe' unfolds. I'm no photography market expert, but I think that Pentax is in a nice 'niche' position for those wanting excellent quality DSLR/lenses...with all this uncertainty swirling around the mirrorless camera market about who will survive, who won't.

I'm not interested in dumping my Pentax DSLR...ASP-C and Full Frame equipment for the latest, 'greatest' thing in photography as some might bill the mirrorless cameras.

New mounts...albeit adapters for Canikon...and I've read of less weight/bulk with a mirrorless, also less parts to go wrong with a Mirrorless, etc...but I don't find my K10D,K5,K1 all that heavy especially without their battery grip/ extra battery attached. They are relatively small cameras.

I'm an XL in size, and like more mass (camera body and grip) for my large mitts to grab hold of...so I don't want smaller camera bodies and I don't notice the extra weight.

I just don't see great advantages for me in mirrorless...to persuade me to unload my Pentax DSLR stuff...at a loss...and buy into a mirrorless system. If I did, I would probably only consider Canon and for the reason that I think Canon (possibly , probably Nikon also) is the only sure bet in the survival stakes that I think will be upcoming in the mirrorless race.

[repaap]

Yes, I think it will be very interesting to see how the mirrorless camera 'universe' unfolds. I'm no photography market expert, but I think that Pentax is in a nice 'niche' position for those wanting excellent quality DSLR/lenses...with all this uncertainty swirling around the mirrorless camera market about who will survive, who won't.

I'm not interested in dumping my Pentax DSLR...ASP-C and Full Frame equipment for the latest, 'greatest' thing in photography as some might bill the mirrorless cameras.

New mounts...albeit adapters for Canikon...and I've read of less weight/bulk with a mirrorless, also less parts to go wrong with a Mirrorless, etc...but I don't find my K10D,K5,K1 all that heavy especially without their battery grip/ extra battery attached. They are relatively small cameras.

I'm an XL in size, and like more mass (camera body and grip) for my large mitts to grab hold of...so I don't want smaller camera bodies and I don't notice the extra weight.

I just don't see great advantages for me in mirrorless...to persuade me to unload my Pentax DSLR stuff...at a loss...and buy into a mirrorless system. If I did, I would probably only consider Canon and for the reason that I think Canon (possibly , probably Nikon also) is the only sure bet in the survival stakes that I think will be upcoming in the mirrorless race.

I think that it takes atleast one year to actually see what will be going on. Let the dust settle.

Sony did stirr the pot and here is counter reaction to customers that were interested of what Sony had to offer, instead of what they could not have from their old manufactorers. With good prize ratio. Then there came also top end models from Sony. Dunno how many of the buyers have had money worth, like really. Now mirrorless has more advnced tecnique in them and they begin to be some what bigger deal, but still. Enjoying your DSLR and that mirror going up 'n down, there is not much what new thing can all of the sudden offer. That is if you are not interested in video, or need extremely silent shutter all the time. other than it being new. Is it going to offer you more better shots? Or is it just the same stuff with all pictures with one eye in focus.

All in all, these new things are just there, because some brands NEED new products all the time, just sake of having new model out(big Sony for example). And they NEED to compete, because people is moving. OR they want to have new customers. Old customers have all the lenses already and they are happy with their 2-4 yr old camera. Yes, you can use adapter, but there is new shiny lenses which has been designed to be used with this camera (wink).