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06-06-2020, 06:18 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
My friend who is in media(video) business(commercial for 17 yrs or so) just bought Sigma FP. He says it was a really good purchase. Ofcourse Panasonic has also big background in video. This is what these cameras are aimed to. More and more so. Don’t really see what pure photography brand like Pentax would do at there. Or add.
They won't get their money back in video, it's a much, much smaller market than still photography.

I reckon it'll be a financial embarrassment, that mount.

Not to Leica, it's theirs already.

If people say, why would a company like Sigma make a poor choice about producing a camera? They did with their Foveon cameras, they must've been like an economic boat anchor for them! Being a family owned company, they're always more likely to make unsound decisions based on pride rather than the objective analysis expected in a publicly listed corporation.

06-06-2020, 09:58 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
They won't get their money back in video, it's a much, much smaller market than still photography.

I reckon it'll be a financial embarrassment, that mount.

Not to Leica, it's theirs already.

If people say, why would a company like Sigma make a poor choice about producing a camera? They did with their Foveon cameras, they must've been like an economic boat anchor for them! Being a family owned company, they're always more likely to make unsound decisions based on pride rather than the objective analysis expected in a publicly listed corporation.
Yes, video is niche. And this camera was aimed to be (FP) video camera which can also take high quality photos too. It has itís small fan base, probably not enough to make their investment back. I believe that it remains to be seen. I donít think that it will get it back in investment, but they should sell some lenses for that mount being cheapest.
06-07-2020, 12:20 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Yes, video is niche. And this camera was aimed to be (FP) video camera which can also take high quality photos too. It has it’s small fan base, probably not enough to make their investment back. I believe that it remains to be seen. I don’t think that it will get it back in investment, but they should sell some lenses for that mount being cheapest.
Yes, unfortunately, if you sell zero cameras you sell zero lenses, so you can see their problem!

It has no view finder of any kind - OVF, or EVF. That rules out a lot of customers straight away.

CDAF only, so that rules out still photographers, unless you only shoot landscapes or similar.

One SD card only, so that rules out professionals.

Lack of tilt screen and no mechanical shutter rules out serious videographers (who wants rolling shutter everytime you pan?)

Okay, so it's cute ... the smallest FF going around, so will that appeal to the not serious crowd? Well, it has a serious price, $1800, that's as much as a K-1.

It's as if it's been designed to offend everyone!
06-07-2020, 02:36 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, unfortunately, if you sell zero cameras you sell zero lenses, so you can see their problem!

It has no view finder of any kind - OVF, or EVF. That rules out a lot of customers straight away.

CDAF only, so that rules out still photographers, unless you only shoot landscapes or similar.

One SD card only, so that rules out professionals.

Lack of tilt screen and no mechanical shutter rules out serious videographers (who wants rolling shutter everytime you pan?)

Okay, so it's cute ... the smallest FF going around, so will that appeal to the not serious crowd? Well, it has a serious price, $1800, that's as much as a K-1.

It's as if it's been designed to offend everyone!
Lot of guys shooting video will use external disc for recording. And yes, one can take photos with it, but clearly it is not designed for that. Given that youíll get jello effect at slower shutter to your photo... but it seems to have a great video, it has possibility to fit many place and suppose to be great as directors POV camera, to check ratios and all beforehand. Not to forget drone capability. Yes, niche. But what I have heard, this or Ďmark 2.(if itíll ever comeí has been relatively well received. Still in video, 1800 if you get FF and RAW it is not that expensive.

06-07-2020, 03:24 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Lot of guys shooting video will use external disc for recording. And yes, one can take photos with it, but clearly it is not designed for that. Given that youíll get jello effect at slower shutter to your photo... but it seems to have a great video, it has possibility to fit many place and suppose to be great as directors POV camera, to check ratios and all beforehand. Not to forget drone capability. Yes, niche. But what I have heard, this or Ďmark 2.(if itíll ever comeí has been relatively well received. Still in video, 1800 if you get FF and RAW it is not that expensive.
Other than small size, I don't see a lot going for it. My guess is that most people would prefer a fuller featured camera than this -- even if their primary focus is videography.
06-07-2020, 04:02 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Lot of guys shooting video will use external disc for recording.
If they've got money for a good Atomos or whatever recorder, they can do better than this FP thing.

The moment you use an external recorder or external microphone or 7" monitor, you're using a big cage and the size of this thing just isn't an advantage any more

QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Given that you’ll get jello effect at slower shutter to your photo... but it seems to have a great video,
Perhaps you misunderstand? The rolling shutter effect is especially hazardous in video. It can make footage unusable, and with an electronic shutter isn't it all but guaranteed? You're always shooting at 1/48s or 1/50s or 1/60s ... double the frame rate. These are low shutter speeds all the time, that's why ND filters are needed for shooting in daylight.

QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
it has possibility to fit many place and suppose to be great as directors POV camera, to check ratios and all beforehand.
You sound like you're trying to be a Sigma salesman, but even this isn't true. You're paying for 12-bit RAW and so on, you don't need that - or even 4k - to check ratios or exposure.
06-07-2020, 08:58 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
If they've got money for a good Atomos or whatever recorder, they can do better than this FP thing.

The moment you use an external recorder or external microphone or 7" monitor, you're using a big cage and the size of this thing just isn't an advantage any more



Perhaps you misunderstand? The rolling shutter effect is especially hazardous in video. It can make footage unusable, and with an electronic shutter isn't it all but guaranteed? You're always shooting at 1/48s or 1/50s or 1/60s ... double the frame rate. These are low shutter speeds all the time, that's why ND filters are needed for shooting in daylight.



You sound like you're trying to be a Sigma salesman, but even this isn't true. You're paying for 12-bit RAW and so on, you don't need that - or even 4k - to check ratios or exposure.
Umm, I did actually buy BMPCC4K and I’m not buying that Sigma(one of the reasons was to get that 12-bit out of the box without need to pay for anything extra and some other perks even more expensive cameras do lack) I happened to look at those videos in actual Sigma FP thread at this very forum, and they did report jello effect in photo, with little slower frame rate. Dunno if it was just captured from video, what ever. Did not look it again to make sure. And yes, jello was saying hello in video mode defo, because it has only ES, and in FF mode it was horrible(it is).

I’v made my choice and I’m quite happy. I’m shooting pictures (and still even some video) with my K-1 and those other things are for video, and just for video. IF I’ll upgrade video it’s going to be a more proper video apparatus, not these hybrids.

Regardles it is still L-mount thread. I do think that my friend knows what he is talking about. Lot of love for Sigma, that jello thing and extra payments and things are what video guys seem to be used for. My friend is happy, he had to buy a handle and some other things to make it work thou, because it is so small.

06-08-2020, 05:53 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Umm, I did actually buy BMPCC4K and Iím not buying that Sigma(one of the reasons was to get that 12-bit out of the box without need to pay for anything extra and some other perks even more expensive cameras do lack) I happened to look at those videos in actual Sigma FP thread at this very forum, and they did report jello effect in photo, with little slower frame rate. Dunno if it was just captured from video, what ever. Did not look it again to make sure. And yes, jello was saying hello in video mode defo, because it has only ES, and in FF mode it was horrible(it is).

Iív made my choice and Iím quite happy. Iím shooting pictures (and still even some video) with my K-1 and those other things are for video, and just for video. IF Iíll upgrade video itís going to be a more proper video apparatus, not these hybrids.

Regardles it is still L-mount thread. I do think that my friend knows what he is talking about. Lot of love for Sigma, that jello thing and extra payments and things are what video guys seem to be used for. My friend is happy, he had to buy a handle and some other things to make it work thou, because it is so small.
I think your friend is mistaken and will be lonely with his Sigma.

Your Blackmagic though is a nice little package!
06-08-2020, 06:44 AM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think your friend is mistaken and will be lonely with his Sigma.

Your Blackmagic though is a nice little package!
Blackmagickhas itís flaws too, as everything out there, but for what It is, it is great! I just love it. It can run at studio all day, I get 1080, 422,10-bit HDMI for my live stream With microphone in mini xlr. And there is AC adapter in box, so Idonít have to pay extra/worry about that either. Super. Wish my gopro 7 would be as simple as that...and I can throw my Pentax lenses on that thing(having my 15-30 on it now and Oly 12-40 for other when it arrives) could do it with many cameras, but not with this budget. And that BRAW look great too(mostly shooting proress thou), big but not as big as Sigma RAW.
06-08-2020, 07:08 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Blackmagickhas it’s flaws too, as everything out there, but for what It is, it is great! I just love it. It can run at studio all day, I get 1080, 422,10-bit HDMI for my live stream With microphone in mini xlr. And there is AC adapter in box, so Idon’t have to pay extra/worry about that either. Super. Wish my gopro 7 would be as simple as that...and I can throw my Pentax lenses on that thing(having my 15-30 on it now and Oly 12-40 for other when it arrives) could do it with many cameras, but not with this budget. And that BRAW look great too(mostly shooting proress thou), big but not as big as Sigma RAW.
Yeah, it's only m43, but, great for what it is, as you say.

I'm biased, though, Blackmagic are Australian and are based in my home city, not far from the Pentax importer.
06-08-2020, 08:14 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, it's only m43, but, great for what it is, as you say.

I'm biased, though, Blackmagic are Australian and are based in my home city, not far from the Pentax importer.
I think that it depends on what kind of stuff one is filming, if m4/3 is enough. One thing what is great is that fat DoF. So even if it is not AF you can get even around 20 mm(40 equiv) about50 cm working space to keep all/most action in focus. That was one of the reasons to go with this. I have K-1 and if you put it next to this, youíll be Oof more, when you move about. I donít have camera man. It is just prefocused, and is just running. ISO 2000, no problemo. Iív tried even 4000, no problem at all. Great for the theater. Olympus 5 Mk II fell apart at iso1250 and K-1 is also falling quite soon after that, if it is high contrast scene.
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