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09-30-2018, 10:07 AM   #1
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L Mount alliance, new Nikon, Canon mounts...future

All these new mounts coming out...during such a brief period....L Mount alliance, new Nikon, Canon mounts...the seeming ascendance of mirrorless. Makes me think there's going to be a significant marketing war going on...fighting for dominance in the market place. As in any struggle there are likely to be casualties and it will be interesting to see who.

Also are Canon and Nikon going to continue to develop within their respective organizations...both their DSLR and their new mirrorless systems ? Will the new L Mount alliance be able to compete with Nikon and Canon mirrorless and of course their DSLR systems ?

I guess I could say it doesn't make any difference to me as I don't have a dog in this fight...or do I.... as I use Pentax DSLR.

Interesting times we live in and when all the dust settles...who will survive and prosper, who will not ?

09-30-2018, 10:16 AM   #2
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Can you please explain simply and briefly what is this L mount alliance?
09-30-2018, 10:59 AM - 1 Like   #3
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All the details aside technology moves at the speed of light. Every year there are new phones new TV systems new everything.

With other technology the companies have a lot more leverage to compel people into buying new stuff.

If you have a 6 year old phone it might work fine but then again it won't be able to keep up with modern apps or other things.

Photography though has much less pressure for these kinds of upgrades and investments.

With a phone if it's old and only 2G you have to upgrade to get the performance of 4G or whatever. The same however is not true with camera gear. The changes are mostly optional but every so many years there's enough change to warrant a big expensive upgrade.

These upgrades are all dependent upon people's ability to afford it and their willingness to accept the change.

Basically put camera systems are not as mobile among users.

If the systems can last long enough and have enough support and prove it's worth over time people will adopt it.

A lot of these companies though are hoping for and trying to compel people to buy a new gadget every year. Problem is its just too expensive for most to do that.
09-30-2018, 11:36 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Can you please explain simply and briefly what is this L mount alliance?
L-mount is a Leica AF mount specification that is being used as part a collaborative venture involving Leica, Panasonic, and Sigma. How much this is an "alliance" is speculative. From the outside, it appears that the initiative is primarily from Panasonic and draws from its existing relationship with Leica with Sigma being the minor player leveraging the mount for Foveon-based cameras.

https://photorumors.com/2018/09/29/interview-with-panasonic-about-the-new-l-mount-alliance/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_L-Mount


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 09-30-2018 at 11:50 AM. Reason: added Wikipedia link
09-30-2018, 12:19 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
L-mount is a Leica AF mount specification that is being used as part a collaborative venture involving Leica, Panasonic, and Sigma. How much this is an "alliance" is speculative. From the outside, it appears that the initiative is primarily from Panasonic and draws from its existing relationship with Leica with Sigma being the minor player leveraging the mount for Foveon-based cameras.

Interview with Panasonic*about the new L-Mount Alliance - Photo Rumors

Leica L-Mount - Wikipedia

Steve
I'm not sure what Leica gains from this other than a few new lenses,

Panasonic gains a pre-engineered mount and an immediate supply of lenses for their new bodies.

I believe the main advantage to Sigma will be new markets for their lenses. If they tried to design KAF4 lenses, they would have to reverse-engineer the specs - here Leica hands the specs to them.
09-30-2018, 12:57 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I believe the main advantage to Sigma will be new markets for their lenses.
They get an AF mount including communication spec for a Foveon-sensor FF camera as a bid to survive in the camera business...and yes, a clear license for L-mount lenses without need to reverse-engineer the mount.


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09-30-2018, 01:41 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Panasonic gains a pre-engineered mount and an immediate supply of lenses for their new bodies.
Bingo! Panasonic isn't really in a position to leverage its legacy lenses that cover a FF sensor and they need a lineup of lenses to offer next spring when the S series cameras will be in the flesh. Which brings up another point, why announce today a product that won't be available for several months? Probably for the same reason Pentax does this, to keep the existing customer base in the fold when competitors are bringing new products to market.

09-30-2018, 01:59 PM   #8
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sorry, double post.

Last edited by lesmore49; 09-30-2018 at 02:06 PM.
09-30-2018, 02:04 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
They get an AF mount including communication spec for a Foveon-sensor FF camera as a bid to survive in the camera business
It is an interesting strategy to discard SA mount camera manufacturing to leap into manufacturing FF mirrorless cameras, especially when the competition is going balls out in this market to grab a bigger chunk of a stagnant market. Compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony and Panasonic, Sigma is much less capable of absorbing losses if this turns out to be a wrong move. At least the infrastructure to manufacture APS-C and APS-H Quattro cameras should be amortized by now and Sigma could have shut down camera R&D if it wanted to. Now it needs to invest in not just a new mount, but a larger format sensor as well.
09-30-2018, 02:04 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
They get an AF mount including communication spec for a Foveon-sensor FF camera as a bid to survive in the camera business...and yes, a clear license for L-mount lenses without need to reverse-engineer the mount.


Steve
Interesting point. Makes me think about Leica as a camera company. Very old company, very fine reputation, but very expensive equipment to buy. I don't know how they're doing in the digital age, but the cost of Leica camera bodies and Leica lenses is of course very expensive. The quality is indisputable, but the customer base who can afford the new equipment, need to be comfortably well off.

What does Leica get out of all this ? Licensing fees for their lens mount I would think. Back in the '80's Leica was involved in an agreement with Minolta and the wonderful little Minolta/ Leica CL and lenses were the result. I wonder if they look at broadening their customer base, by joint developing a lower cost camera with one of their partners ?

I wonder what other benefits, financial, etc. ...would accrue to Leica...as a result of this L Mount alliance ?
09-30-2018, 02:11 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
What does Leica get out of all this ? Licensing fees for their lens mount I would think.
Production volume that they could never obtain if they were building lenses for their own low-volume camera models. Licensing fees per unit are tiny compared to operating margins from manufacturing lenses and Leica doesn't have a monopoly on designing new lens mounts.
09-30-2018, 02:27 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not sure what Leica gains from this other than a few new lenses,

Panasonic gains a pre-engineered mount and an immediate supply of lenses for their new bodies.

I believe the main advantage to Sigma will be new markets for their lenses. If they tried to design KAF4 lenses, they would have to reverse-engineer the specs - here Leica hands the specs to them.
Wouldn't Leica also end up selling more bodies as upgrades to those that bought into the L-mount system via a Panasonic or Sigma camera? I'd think that the lower-end L-mount cameras would be a stepping stone to Leica -- you buy a Pany or Sigma body, get a few lenses, add a Leica lens or two, get sold on Leica, and then upgrade the body to Leica.

I could envision each maker naturally fitting into a niche in the L-mount universe from entry-level to high-end and with Panasonic being known for video, Sigma getting a following for Foveon, etc.

For smaller camera makers who realize they can't really provide every level of camera for every level and type of photographer, joining a system is a way to build a bigger pie and then share a piece of it.

Last edited by photoptimist; 09-30-2018 at 03:05 PM.
09-30-2018, 02:37 PM   #13
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A lot of the new cameras/mounts are focused on better video. As a true Pentaxian, you should know that video is the enemy. It is a travesty that it is even included on modern cameras.

I think of all of the new mounts, Canon's is in the best shape. They just have the best distribution network and seem to be best able to get their cameras into the hands of photographers the best. From what I understand, Canon's EOS-R or whatever it is called is already a best seller in Japan. The issue for these cameras is seldom specifications, but more presence in stores, pricing, and advertising and in those areas, Canon does really well.
09-30-2018, 04:59 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Wouldn't Leica also end up selling more bodies as upgrades to those that bought into the L-mount system via a Panasonic or Sigma camera? I'd think that the lower-end L-mount cameras would be a stepping stone to Leica -- you buy a Pany or Sigma body, get a few lenses, add a Leica lens or two, get sold on Leica, and then upgrade the body to Leica.
I am not sure that the Leica SL is an upgrade from the Panasonic S1 which will likely be price-competitive to the Sony A7III (~$2000 USD) with performance at or beyond that of the SL.


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09-30-2018, 05:37 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I am not sure that the Leica SL is an upgrade from the Panasonic S1 which will likely be price-competitive to the Sony A7III (~$2000 USD) with performance at or beyond that of the SL.


Steve
As techno-jewelry, isn't that red circle logo one of the biggest upgrades of all?

For some, showing the world that they paid a lot of money is all the performance that matters.
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