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10-23-2018, 04:08 PM   #1
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fujifilm statement

If you’ve been hoping and praying that Fujifilm will launch a full-frame mirrorless camera, get ready to have your dreams dashed: the company is now saying that it will “never go full-frame.”

Fujifilm has been focusing all of its attention on APS-C and medium format cameras in recent years. The new Fujifilm X-T3 is a major contender among APS-C cameras — DPReview just concluded that it’s “arguably the best stills/video camera on the market right now.”

And after jumping into the world of medium format mirrorless cameras in 2016 with the GFX 50S, Fujifilm followed it up this year with the groundbreaking rangefinder-style GFX 50R. The company is also developing a 102MP medium format mirrorless camera with phase detection autofocus, in-body image stabilization, and 4K video.

As the company continues to unleash top-quality cameras for medium format and crop sensor, many have understandably wondered whether Fujifilm will fill in the glaring gap by introducing a new full-frame camera to compete against the likes of the Sony a7R III, Canon EOS R, and Nikon Z7.

The answer is no.

10-23-2018, 04:57 PM   #2
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At least it's clear.
Nothing like, we are closely watching the xxxxx market and study how user .... Then just silence the next year when the same question comes back which often leaves endusers unsure how long it will take to just keep on looking n studing.
10-23-2018, 04:58 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
The answer is no.
In 9 months they will have 3 super FFs(645) on the market and at extremely competitive prices(for what they do).

IBIS will be their biggest challenge of course.
Photokina 2018: Fujifilm interview - 'we'll never go full-frame': Digital Photography Review
10-23-2018, 09:15 PM   #4
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Don’t really know why they would go FF. They have APS-C covered and if people have a lot of cash or need that next level performance they can opt for the fairly well priced medium format.

10-24-2018, 01:38 AM   #5
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I find it a strange statement, but I can understand that they are not interested in FF for the near future. But saying "never" may be a promise that may be hard to keep as a company until end of time.
With that statement it means they would rather choose bankruptcy than producing FF cameras.

They also claim that they do not have any FF legacy, which they of course have since they had 35mm SLR since early 1960s with m42 mount, and later with Fujica X-mount.
And a number of 35mm film rangefinder cameras.

But Fuji has has made many statements the last couple of years that shortly after has become invalid. Its just how their marketing works.

Last edited by Fogel70; 10-24-2018 at 01:43 AM.
10-24-2018, 03:05 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
But saying "never" may be a promise that may be hard to keep as a company until end of time.With that statement it means they would rather choose bankruptcy than producing FF cameras
Next year he can say "the market conditions have changed, it now makes sense for us to make a Fuji full frame lineup". It's not plausible, but it's always possible.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 10-24-2018 at 03:11 AM.
10-30-2018, 05:30 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I find it a strange statement, but I can understand that they are not interested in FF for the near future. But saying "never" may be a promise that may be hard to keep as a company until end of time.
With that statement it means they would rather choose bankruptcy than producing FF cameras.

They also claim that they do not have any FF legacy, which they of course have since they had 35mm SLR since early 1960s with m42 mount, and later with Fujica X-mount.
And a number of 35mm film rangefinder cameras.

But Fuji has has made many statements the last couple of years that shortly after has become invalid. Its just how their marketing works.
With the GFX sensor being only slightly larger than FF, I really don't see Fuji adding a 3rd mount just for FF. With the new 100MP BSI sensor and on sensor PDAF going into the GFX-100 I think you will see it rival the speed (AF) of many DSLRs. Obviously your not going to get a huge number of frames per second, but Fuji could do some interesting things like 4 pixel binning for a 25MP image that would have amazingly low noise/high ISO. If they can hit 5FPS they will be a very viable option for the upper end of the market. And what about that 4K? A large sensor with 4K 60fps is going to be pretty desirable for many people. If they can give me A9 level AF I could possible see myself making the switch.


Why mess with FF?

10-30-2018, 10:27 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
With the GFX sensor being only slightly larger than FF, I really don't see Fuji adding a 3rd mount just for FF. With the new 100MP BSI sensor and on sensor PDAF going into the GFX-100 I think you will see it rival the speed (AF) of many DSLRs. Obviously your not going to get a huge number of frames per second, but Fuji could do some interesting things like 4 pixel binning for a 25MP image that would have amazingly low noise/high ISO. If they can hit 5FPS they will be a very viable option for the upper end of the market. And what about that 4K? A large sensor with 4K 60fps is going to be pretty desirable for many people. If they can give me A9 level AF I could possible see myself making the switch.


Why mess with FF?
Because they are a company, which normally want to achieve highest possible profit.

In 5-10 years FF segment many be much larger than APS-C, but MF crop may still be a very small niche segment.

The 100MP MF Fuji camera will probably be 6000-7000$, so a 60MP FF camera at half the price will most likely be much more successful.
The high price of MF lenses will also make it difficult to sell MF to a large user base.

Last edited by Fogel70; 10-31-2018 at 12:59 AM.
10-31-2018, 02:34 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
With the GFX sensor being only slightly larger than FF, I really don't see Fuji adding a 3rd mount just for FF. With the new 100MP BSI sensor and on sensor PDAF going into the GFX-100 I think you will see it rival the speed (AF) of many DSLRs. Obviously your not going to get a huge number of frames per second, but Fuji could do some interesting things like 4 pixel binning for a 25MP image that would have amazingly low noise/high ISO. If they can hit 5FPS they will be a very viable option for the upper end of the market. And what about that 4K? A large sensor with 4K 60fps is going to be pretty desirable for many people. If they can give me A9 level AF I could possible see myself making the switch.


Why mess with FF?
I think the cost of full frame sensors is significantly less than the cost of medium format sensors, due to a combination of number sold and waste with the bigger sensors. And medium format lenses from Fuji are quite pricey. I just don't know how many people are really going to want to spend the price of a 100 megapixel medium format to shoot manual focus lenses at 4 frames per second in full frame crop mode, even if the auto focus is stellar. I really do think the people who buy into the GFX series are going to be shooting it in medium format mode for the most part and at most will experiment a bit with full frame lenses on it.

From a photographer's standpoint, you just tend to get more bang for your buck at full frame level than at medium format level.
10-31-2018, 03:44 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
Fujifilm has been focusing all of its attention on APS-C and medium format cameras in recent years. The new Fujifilm X-T3 is a major contender among APS-C cameras
At least for now, their intentions are clear. I always felt pentax was the brand focusing solely on apsc & a nice set of dedicated lenses.
It is all most people really need. They abandoned that position somewhat by going FF as well and fujifilm has taken over the dedicated apsc role, by designing very nice cameras & lenses for it. At least in my view.

I wonder what the smartest strategy is here..
10-31-2018, 04:10 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
It is all most people really need. They abandoned that position somewhat by going FF as well and fujifilm has taken over the dedicated apsc role, by designing very nice cameras & lenses for it. At least in my view.

I wonder what the smartest strategy is here..
You need to be careful using the word 'need'. Pentax's devotion to APS-C is recent - little more than a decade. Before that they had at least fifty years of "FF" history. As I think about adjusting to Aperture Control issues with my K-30, I realize that my collection of manual {prime} lenses is of limited use to me, because they are specialized for "FF" {35mm} .... even 35mm is a little longer than I want to be using in most cases .... so going FF made lots of sense for Pentax. I thought of Fuji as a film company, so I can't really think of how their history as a 'camera producer' informs this decision to eschew FF.
10-31-2018, 05:26 AM   #12
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yep, pentax has that FF history, although not in the digital era.
It does make sense from that perspective, since a lot of pentax users have FF lenses.

I think though, that Fuji is able to make such a progress lately, is because they focus all their resources to apsc.
And it shows in their attractive line up. Pentax being more of a mixed bag these days. The Kp probably as best example: named 'compromise' in the words of some. Although i think it is a nice camera on its own.

Maybe in the end, FF will become the mainstream & prove fuji wrong. Personally i consider apsc the best compromise between cost, size & quality. But that is not necessarily the market opinion..
And that is also before i really put my hands on a K1.. I try to avoid that :-)
10-31-2018, 05:37 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The 100MP MF Fuji camera will probably be 6000-7000$,
U$ 9995 has been quoted by Fuji officials and for what it will do,its fairly priced.As is the 50R at U$4500.
10-31-2018, 07:34 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The 100MP MF Fuji camera will probably be 6000-7000$, so a 60MP FF camera at half the price will most likely be much more successful.
The high price of MF lenses will also make it difficult to sell MF to a large user base.
$10,000 for the new GFX-100.

Fuji will have 3 GFX bodies by this time next year. The 50R will be selling for close to $3,000 before long. The 50S will probably come down under $5,000 soon enough. The cost of manufacturing sensors has fallen considerably in the last 5 years and is going to continue to fall. Most photographers don't own a dozen lenses. I had 3 for may Contax 645 and that is all I needed for the work that I did. I eventually bought 3 more, but only after the system has been discontinued and I got them for 1/3 of their original price.

Just as the cost of FF has fallen by significantly over the years, you are going to see crop MF come down in price. The sensor really isn't a whole lot bigger than a FF sensor.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the cost of full frame sensors is significantly less than the cost of medium format sensors, due to a combination of number sold and waste with the bigger sensors. And medium format lenses from Fuji are quite pricey. I just don't know how many people are really going to want to spend the price of a 100 megapixel medium format to shoot manual focus lenses at 4 frames per second in full frame crop mode, even if the auto focus is stellar. I really do think the people who buy into the GFX series are going to be shooting it in medium format mode for the most part and at most will experiment a bit with full frame lenses on it.

From a photographer's standpoint, you just tend to get more bang for your buck at full frame level than at medium format level.
Fuji MF lenses are pricey, but so are their APS-C lenses. Relative to other MF lenses though, Fuji is not that expensive. How do Fuji MF lenses compare to premium FF lenses from Leica or Zeiss? Still less expensive.

I think a 25MP mode (4 pixel binning) would give you the best low-light/ high ISO performance on the market by a large margin. Its basically giving you pixel shift level performance but in a single image so it works with moving subjects. 25MP is also the sweet spot for a lot of working professionals in the wedding and portrait industry. People shooting events where they can't control lighting and they need really high ISO with fast AF, but don't need massive RAW files.

I think we are a generation or two away, but once the secondary market for Fuji MF starts to get bigger you are going to see a lot more people using it.
10-31-2018, 08:16 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
$10,000 for the new GFX-100.

Fuji will have 3 GFX bodies by this time next year. The 50R will be selling for close to $3,000 before long. The 50S will probably come down under $5,000 soon enough. The cost of manufacturing sensors has fallen considerably in the last 5 years and is going to continue to fall. Most photographers don't own a dozen lenses. I had 3 for may Contax 645 and that is all I needed for the work that I did. I eventually bought 3 more, but only after the system has been discontinued and I got them for 1/3 of their original price.

Just as the cost of FF has fallen by significantly over the years, you are going to see crop MF come down in price. The sensor really isn't a whole lot bigger than a FF sensor.



Fuji MF lenses are pricey, but so are their APS-C lenses. Relative to other MF lenses though, Fuji is not that expensive. How do Fuji MF lenses compare to premium FF lenses from Leica or Zeiss? Still less expensive.

I think a 25MP mode (4 pixel binning) would give you the best low-light/ high ISO performance on the market by a large margin. Its basically giving you pixel shift level performance but in a single image so it works with moving subjects. 25MP is also the sweet spot for a lot of working professionals in the wedding and portrait industry. People shooting events where they can't control lighting and they need really high ISO with fast AF, but don't need massive RAW files.

I think we are a generation or two away, but once the secondary market for Fuji MF starts to get bigger you are going to see a lot more people using it.
Of course.

But this thread isn't about how Fuji medium format compares to other medium formats on the market. It is whether there is a spot for full frame between medium format and APS-C. There are plenty of people who want a bit better than APS-C but who aren't going to be able to afford 4500 to 10,000 dollars for a body plus whatever the lenses run.

Back in the day, Pentax said they didn't need full frame because they had APS-C and medium format. I never really bought it, once the price of full frame came down out of the stratosphere and I don't really buy it for Fuji either.
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