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02-02-2019, 04:19 PM   #181
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I really like that they are trying to innovate. But it seems they haven't a clue where they want to place their bet. And they don't have enough time, money, and people to dedicate to Q, Crop, FF, and MF all together.

Someone in the company needs to put their foot down and say this/these is/are the system(s) we are supporting. Because wavering isn't really favorable for business. Do they still support Q? What happened to MF? Crop got a new lens, but where is the top tier K-7/5/3 -like body? K-1 is serious but are they serious about launching a full lineup of D-FAs for it?

It is like the company is in Analysis Paralysis of the market and isn't sure which way to go.. so they trickle out a product here and there while they wait to see what the market does next, but never committing.
I think Pentax is committed to DSLR and JDM preferences.


Last edited by funkythiru; 02-02-2019 at 04:20 PM. Reason: cropped
02-02-2019, 04:33 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Exciting times or risky times for business?

Olympus is essentially hedging their bets on making m43 appealing enough to sell in the market long term.


Panasonic doing the m43 thing too but nice that they didn't lump all their eggs in the m43 basket and have introduced a FF system too just in case....


Nikon and Canon are onboard FF mirrorless with new product lines while keeping DSLR crop and FF systems in the near term..


Fuji is committed to APS-C and starting on mirrorless MF

What is Ricoh doing with Pentax? For the past 5 years it seems they haven't a clue what they want to do as they've been all over the map trying out stuff... They've tried Q, APS-C, FF, MF and different avenues or flavors of crop between the blinky lights K-S1 and retro KP oh and the stripped down K-500 (which I'm not even sure officially made it to North America).


I really like that they are trying to innovate. But it seems they haven't a clue where they want to place their bet. And they don't have enough time, money, and people to dedicate to Q, Crop, FF, and MF all together.

Someone in the company needs to put their foot down and say this/these is/are the system(s) we are supporting. Because wavering isn't really favorable for business. Do they still support Q? What happened to MF? Crop got a new lens, but where is the top tier K-7/5/3 -like body? K-1 is serious but are they serious about launching a full lineup of D-FAs for it?

It is like the company is in Analysis Paralysis of the market and isn't sure which way to go.. so they trickle out a product here and there while they wait to see what the market does next, but never committing.
Medium format doesn't need a new lens every month. It's not like 35mm/APS-C. It's basically a finished system. They can update a lens every now and then, but MF is a finished.

APS-C was never killed off. The KP is a really good camera. It's just not a K-3II replacement. The APS-C lens lineup with the new wide angle is complete. Obviously a few lenses could use a refresh but it's one of the most complete lineups of any APS system.

The K-1 does need more lenses, but they are coming.

Pentax has 3 systems, all weather sealed. All high quality. All well reviewed. I think if people keep buying their well designed products they will remain in business.

02-02-2019, 05:05 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mountain Vision Quote
Medium format doesn't need a new lens every month. It's not like 35mm/APS-C. It's basically a finished system. They can update a lens every now and then, but MF is a finished.

APS-C was never killed off. The KP is a really good camera. It's just not a K-3II replacement. The APS-C lens lineup with the new wide angle is complete. Obviously a few lenses could use a refresh but it's one of the most complete lineups of any APS system.

The K-1 does need more lenses, but they are coming.

Pentax has 3 systems, all weather sealed. All high quality. All well reviewed. I think if people keep buying their well designed products they will remain in business.
Medium format system could use an update in it's lenses, also I would hardly call it a full weather sealed system with only 3 lenses that have the seals.

02-02-2019, 06:59 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Medium format system could use an update in it's lenses, also I would hardly call it a full weather sealed system with only 3 lenses that have the seals.
Fair enough. But what does the competition look like in terms of lineup and price?

Don't forget it took Pentax over a decade to finish off the DA line with -finally - a weather sealed wide angle. I'm sure more lenses are coming.



02-02-2019, 08:04 PM - 1 Like   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mountain Vision Quote
Fair enough. But what does the competition look like in terms of lineup and price?

Don't forget it took Pentax over a decade to finish off the DA line with -finally - a weather sealed wide angle. I'm sure more lenses are coming.
Not sure about hassleblad, but with Fuji. It's a newer system with the same sensor as the 645z. They have two cameras with a third one on the way. Taking current prices from b&h, the 645z is on sale for 4996.95originally 6996.95 marked 2000 off. The Fuji systems are technically are cheaper saying they are not on sale at the moment, the 50r is 4499 and the 50s is 5499. Fuji is still building up the lenses, for lenses that can be bought new: 23, 32-64, 45, 63, 110, 120, 250, 1.4x teleconverter. They will have the 100-200 and a 50 mm out this year. All of those are weathersealed. There are third party lens manufacturers making lenses for them. Also Fuji was able to get capture one support. Of course because it is mirrorless you can use adapted glass, including full lens control of Canon glass(aperture, and autofocus). This is all since 2017.

Understanding that Pentax was focused on k-mount during that time, the last release for the format was back in 2015. That was just a reworking of the 645 fa 35( much like the current k-mount fa35, no weather sealing but an update In coatings). Comparing lens prices are tough saying the focal lengths don't match up. Pentax 120 macro is cheaper, but the Fuji offers ois in theirs and also weather sealed. If we are looking at the 33-55 from Pentax compared to the 32-64 from Fuji. Fuji is cheaper.... Now it would not be a fair comparison if I didn't include Pentax bought new lens line up. Which I have to say carries a wider range. 28-45, 33-55, 35, 45, 55, 45-85, 55-110, 75, 90, 80-160, 120, 150, 150-300, 200, 300, 400. Only weather resistant lenses are 28-45, 55, and 90. Don't get me wrong that is a pretty full list in comparison to the full frame k-mount line up that needs a ton of work, but it would be nice if they released an updated normal lens that has sealing. Such as a 45-85mm


For information on lenses I used b&h and they needed to be new and not purchased used. That disqualifies the 25mm, 135, and 600mm from Pentax.
02-02-2019, 08:18 PM   #186
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It is incredible to me how much the price has reduced on digital MF cameras over the past 8+ years. Thinking about the 645D which was around 10 grand around 2010, to 645Z at 8500 USD in 2014, now down to 5 grand today! (and offered in excellent condition for around 4 grand used)
02-02-2019, 08:22 PM - 1 Like   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
It is incredible to me how much the price has reduced on digital MF cameras over the past 8+ years. Thinking about the 645D which was around 10 grand around 2010, to 645Z at 8500 USD in 2014, now down to 5 grand today! (and offered in excellent condition for around 4 grand used)
Yeah I know what you mean. It all started with Pentax leading the way.



02-02-2019, 08:35 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Yeah I know what you mean. It all started with Pentax leading the way.

Indeed! Btw for giggles I just looked at ebay for clean 645D copies.. 1900 to 2200 USD respectively. For digital MF that seems to be a really cheap way to start!


I am glad that Fujfilm entered the scene though in a way. Not only is there more choice, but hopefully it makes the brands more competitive.


But I'm on the sidelines -- not sure I'll ever adopt the MF system. However, it is interesting to see it play out over time.
02-03-2019, 08:34 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Indeed! Btw for giggles I just looked at ebay for clean 645D copies.. 1900 to 2200 USD respectively. For digital MF that seems to be a really cheap way to start!


I am glad that Fujfilm entered the scene though in a way. Not only is there more choice, but hopefully it makes the brands more competitive.


But I'm on the sidelines -- not sure I'll ever adopt the MF system. However, it is interesting to see it play out over time.
I'm not sure Fuji entering the MF format market is going to have much effect on Ricoh. Ricoh doesn't seem to have in interest in competing and I don't think they will dedicate the resources to the 645 line that they need to compete. They Fuji GFX-100 will be out soon and that will give Fuji 3 bodies and 14 lenses. During this time span Ricoh hasn't even updated a single MF lens with HD coatings much less announced anything new. Ricoh doesn't seem to have the resources to dedicate to one mount (K-mount) much less a second or third mount. Even a release date for a single lens line the D-FA* 50mm or D-FA* 85mm gets pushed back by a year. Sony is releasing 12 lenses in 2019, Panasonic has said that between the 3 L-mount companies there will be 40 lenses for the new system by 2020. Look at every other manufacturer. Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji.... Ricoh isn't even trying. The 645z is still an amazing camera that is capable of amazing results, but they could definitely update some of the legacy glass and add features like IBIS.


The new Fuji GFX-100 with IBIS looks interesting. I don't need or want 100MPs, but it would be a fun camera to play with.
02-03-2019, 09:02 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm not sure Fuji entering the MF format market is going to have much effect on Ricoh. Ricoh doesn't seem to have in interest in competing and I don't think they will dedicate the resources to the 645 line that they need to compete. They Fuji GFX-100 will be out soon and that will give Fuji 3 bodies and 14 lenses. During this time span Ricoh hasn't even updated a single MF lens with HD coatings much less announced anything new. Ricoh doesn't seem to have the resources to dedicate to one mount (K-mount) much less a second or third mount. Even a release date for a single lens line the D-FA* 50mm or D-FA* 85mm gets pushed back by a year. Sony is releasing 12 lenses in 2019, Panasonic has said that between the 3 L-mount companies there will be 40 lenses for the new system by 2020. Look at every other manufacturer. Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji.... Ricoh isn't even trying. The 645z is still an amazing camera that is capable of amazing results, but they could definitely update some of the legacy glass and add features like IBIS.


The new Fuji GFX-100 with IBIS looks interesting. I don't need or want 100MPs, but it would be a fun camera to play with.
Well.. there is that too.

I was thinking that the Pentax MF system set the way for Fuji's pricing. But maybe not.


The 100 does look interesting. And I'd have fun with it. But I doubt I have that kind of toy money they will be asking for one.
02-03-2019, 10:27 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well.. there is that too.

I was thinking that the Pentax MF system set the way for Fuji's pricing. But maybe not.


The 100 does look interesting. And I'd have fun with it. But I doubt I have that kind of toy money they will be asking for one.
I know I won't, but I will rent it to see how horrible it will be

02-03-2019, 08:09 PM - 1 Like   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
I know I won't, but I will rent it to see how horrible it will be
I wouldn't dare do such a thing. If it is incredible then I'll just be bummed to have to send it back. I'd rather not have that experience from which to forever compare from. haha
02-04-2019, 01:19 PM   #193
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I’d like to try the MF too. not so many renting opportynityes here at Finland...btw. Ricoh said that it is great to have more 645 cameras. it creats interest towards whole system. So they are not actually compeeting. In other words, there is no competition going on. who are competitors, are new guys, and the loudest ones who wnat to take first podium. But will there be enought buyers after that competition, what will be the prize? People going, that it would be great, but I don’t know, gee, it is so expensive. similar thing going on with this Oly?
02-04-2019, 01:57 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
this Oly?
QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
it is so expensive
OK, can we get the thread on subject?...directed at the MF commentators(ha ha)

OLY has stated this body is for the pro/high end enthusiast,a poll(that Ive seen)said 5% would buy it.I'm sure that Oly would be delighted to capture that amount of market(all m43 users) @ the margins this body probably has.

As far as expensive goes,its probably a fair price compared to the high end offerings from the competitors...In saying that,some will comment about the small sensor.I see the advantages in telephoto,not the disadvantages in light gathering.A motorhome serves a different purpose to a Ferrari.


Images of the new 150-400 f4.5 have just started to emerge,its WHITE!...Oly is making a fashion statement!...No,out in the sun white keeps the internals cooler than black.

Interesting is theres a 1.25 TC built in giving 500mm f5.6 so with the 2x crop...1000mm,it'll costalotta too.Not sure of the weight of the lens but that FOV with FF glass weighs a ton....the Oly can be handheld.
02-04-2019, 06:25 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
OK, can we get the thread on subject?...directed at the MF commentators(ha ha)

OLY has stated this body is for the pro/high end enthusiast,a poll(that Ive seen)said 5% would buy it.I'm sure that Oly would be delighted to capture that amount of market(all m43 users) @ the margins this body probably has.

As far as expensive goes,its probably a fair price compared to the high end offerings from the competitors...In saying that,some will comment about the small sensor.I see the advantages in telephoto,not the disadvantages in light gathering.A motorhome serves a different purpose to a Ferrari.


Images of the new 150-400 f4.5 have just started to emerge,its WHITE!...Oly is making a fashion statement!...No,out in the sun white keeps the internals cooler than black.

Interesting is theres a 1.25 TC built in giving 500mm f5.6 so with the 2x crop...1000mm,it'll costalotta too.Not sure of the weight of the lens but that FOV with FF glass weighs a ton....the Oly can be handheld.
Sorry

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