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11-01-2018, 06:50 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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m43 says that TN is brain dead.

11-01-2018, 06:50 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Olympus has patented 7 FF mirrorless lenses in the last 5 years. They are working on something and 2019 is the 100th anniversary of the company. Could Olympus join Sony with an FE body? E-mount is an open mount and Sony has a really good relationship with Olympus.
Olympus made fine film cameras - their 'clamshell" pocket cameras were interesting and useful {I had one, lost it, so got a second} - but at this stage I'm not sure what they would add to the market that Sony hasn't figured out.
11-01-2018, 07:59 AM - 3 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
You guys know that I quite like Tony Northrup
I have a dog that likes eating the droppings from the other dog..... Nice dog, no accounting for taste.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote

- but in common with most vloggers, he generates publicity and YouTube views by saying controversial and provocative things.

I do think he makes a couple of good points in this video:

- It will be tough for Panasonic to split its R&D budget between the existing m43 platform and the new full-frame platform which needs a lot of lens development and on-going development for the cameras
- Olympus will have a hard time selling m43 bodies at higher price points when full-frame gear is available for the same or less... although the size and weight benefits of the m43 platform are a big plus for many, so that may keep it in the game

Those are really the only take-aways for me. Anything he said beyond that is pretty much water off a duck's back
I always thought M43 was a solution to a non existent problem. Cameras in general are moving upscale as a defence against the onslaught of the very much improved cell phonesí cameras that are starting to hit the market. I could very easily see, in the near future, having to go to a larger than m43 sensor to get significantly better IQ than what cell phones will be giving.
Cell phones have already picked off compact P&S camera and are hitting bridge cameras pretty hard. It may only be a matter of time before they fall victim, and after that, the cell phone makers will set thier sights on M43.
11-01-2018, 08:04 AM   #19
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m43 was a solution to an existing problem, but it was Olympus' problem: they pushed themselves into the too-small corner with the 4/3 (likely, grossly overestimating the cost of the larger sensors).
So they made a novelty mirrorless system, with a same size sensor (thus one could adapt 4/3 lenses on it).

The demand for compact camera remains. We'll see if they can indeed continue like this... right now I don't feel any impulse to start "shouting" on forums, "Olympus is doomed!"

11-01-2018, 08:09 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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Cell phones have wide angle handled certainly, but Don't have much hope with telephoto.

So long as all the companies keep building larger and larger (some of these new lenses are getting ridiculous), there will be people who want a compact kit. Hell I bet a large portion of m43 shooters have a full frame kit.
11-01-2018, 08:42 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I have a dog that likes eating the droppings from the other dog..... Nice dog, no accounting for taste.
For the benefit of all readers:

I have never consumed someone else's droppings (nor, for that matter, my own).

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I always thought M43 was a solution to a non existent problem. Cameras in general are moving upscale as a defence against the onslaught of the very much improved cell phones’ cameras that are starting to hit the market. I could very easily see, in the near future, having to go to a larger than m43 sensor to get significantly better IQ than what cell phones will be giving.
Cell phones have already picked off compact P&S camera and are hitting bridge cameras pretty hard. It may only be a matter of time before they fall victim, and after that, the cell phone makers will set thier sights on M43.
You may be right. That said, it's been a very popular format for a decade now, and the cameras can offer image quality that isn't far behind APS-C sensor cameras of comparable release dates. I've always liked fairly chunky cameras, but having handled some Olympus models at various shows, I can understand the attraction. And surely the wide range of interchangeable lenses (including some very fine glass indeed) will continue to differentiate m43 from phones? I don't know... but it'll be interesting to see what happens next...
11-01-2018, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
m43 was a solution to an existing problem, but it was Olympus' problem: they pushed themselves into the too-small corner with the 4/3 (likely, grossly overestimating the cost of the larger sensors).
So they made a novelty mirrorless system, with a same size sensor (thus one could adapt 4/3 lenses on it).

The demand for compact camera remains. We'll see if they can indeed continue like this... right now I don't feel any impulse to start "shouting" on forums, "Olympus is doomed!"
How about, thinking of the GR and WG, "Ricoh is doomed"?
11-01-2018, 08:55 AM - 1 Like   #23
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There are others which are quite good of tirelessly keeping up the "Ricoh/Pentax is doomed" flag. And I don't feel like giving a hand anyway

11-01-2018, 08:56 AM - 1 Like   #24
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Panasonic can handle having two different formats. Everybody else (except Olympus) does that (or even more formats, like in Pentax's case).
11-01-2018, 09:09 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Cell phones have already picked off compact P&S camera and are hitting bridge cameras pretty hard. It may only be a matter of time before they fall victim, and after that, the cell phone makers will set thier sights on M43.
Quite possible but not for a while. Cell phones can't put 20 quality mpx on something at 300mm f2.8 or 600mm f4 with sophisticated AF and all the rest, unlike APS-C or M43. Maybe in five to ten years? But by then those formats will be fifteen to twenty years old and nothing lasts for all that long in this game. However, we can't be sure how interested the cellphone-makers would be in doing that in the first place. They might - or might not - decide that some things were best left to specialist tools and were a step and a cost increase too far for them.

Plus, some people just like cameras and lenses and taking photographs with cameras and lenses. For myself I think that is always underestimated in discussions about technology - some people just like cameras and lenses regardless of what's inside them, who made them or what else those folks could get instead. If there are enough of them, that's the market.

And a subset or niche of that audience probably likes netsuke-like small and will pay for the miniaturization and design involved, just as they did for the Pentax Q for example. In the case of Olympus one needs to look at the continuing influence of Yoshihisa Maitani.

Last edited by mecrox; 11-01-2018 at 09:17 AM.
11-01-2018, 09:22 AM   #26
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Cell phones?
W.T. Duck by Aaron Johnson for October 14, 2018 - GoComics
11-01-2018, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
some people just like cameras and lenses and taking photographs with cameras and lenses. For myself I think that is always underestimated in discussions about technology - some people just like cameras and lenses regardless of what's inside them, who made them or what else those folks could get instead. If there are enough of them, that's the market.
I think you're absolutely spot on with that observation. There will be (are, in fact) even professional photographers who will be very happy - happiest, even - with the form factor and image quality of better smartphones. But no matter how good the image quality, some of us like and want what looks and feels like a "real" camera and lenses. Hopefully, "some of us" is a big enough number to sustain a healthy market, even if it's somewhat below the peak...
11-01-2018, 10:09 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
For the benefit of all readers:

I have never consumed someone else's droppings (nor, for that matter, my own).
Other than Tony Northropís verbal version.........
Sorry, couldnít resist.


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
You may be right. That said, it's been a very popular format for a decade now, and the cameras can offer image quality that isn't far behind APS-C sensor cameras of comparable release dates. I've always liked fairly chunky cameras, but having handled some Olympus models at various shows, I can understand the attraction. And surely the wide range of interchangeable lenses (including some very fine glass indeed) will continue to differentiate m43 from phones? I don't know... but it'll be interesting to see what happens next...
Of course Iím right. Iím always right.

Seriously though, The present users of m43 are probably not going anywhere as long as they are content with what they are getting. However, there is the potential for feature creep and quality improvements in cell phones to close the gap with M43 thereby eroding their potential market. This is what happened with compact cameras.

The people who want M43 for compact telephoto lenses to facilitate BIF photography (as an example) are something of an outlier. I suspect most users are of the more mundane travel or family photographer type, prime candidates for a multi use device such as a smartphone with an advanced built in camera.

Letís face it, if a person has to choose between leaving their cell phone or their camera at home, the camera is going to stay in the closet.

---------- Post added 11-01-18 at 11:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Quite possible but not for a while. Cell phones can't put 20 quality mpx on something at 300mm f2.8 or 600mm f4 with sophisticated AF and all the rest, unlike APS-C or M43. Maybe in five to ten years? But by then those formats will be fifteen to twenty years old and nothing lasts for all that long in this game. However, we can't be sure how interested the cellphone-makers would be in doing that in the first place. They might - or might not - decide that some things were best left to specialist tools and were a step and a cost increase too far for them.
How many M43 users are buying super telephoto lenses? Iím thinking the number is quite low. Cell phones donít have to attract that user, who is quite a specialist, they just have to attract enough of the more mundane users to make a big enough dent in camera sales.

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote

Plus, some people just like cameras and lenses and taking photographs with cameras and lenses. For myself I think that is always underestimated in discussions about technology - some people just like cameras and lenses regardless of what's inside them, who made them or what else those folks could get instead. If there are enough of them, that's the market.

And a subset or niche of that audience probably likes netsuke-like small and will pay for the miniaturization and design involved, just as they did for the Pentax Q for example. In the case of Olympus one needs to look at the continuing influence of Yoshihisa Maitani.
The people who just like cameras would, of course, still have the ability to buy cameras. No one is saying that they will go away. I note that the Pentax Q series has been dropped, as has the Nikon 1 series. What this says about people willing to pay for miniaturization I can only guess at. Some are, but I guess not enough.

As an aside, I purchased a Q and several lenses when it first came out. I seriously underutilized it, but my wife decided she liked it and used it for several years. She stopped using it when she gave up her flip phone and entered the world of smartphones a couple of years ago with an iPhone5. She has no desire to pick up the Q or any other camera, the smartphone floats her boat quite well
11-01-2018, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Quite possible but not for a while. Cell phones can't put 20 quality mpx on something at 300mm f2.8 or 600mm f4 with sophisticated AF and all the rest, unlike APS-C or M43. Maybe in five to ten years? But by then those formats will be fifteen to twenty years old and nothing lasts for all that long in this game. However, we can't be sure how interested the cellphone-makers would be in doing that in the first place. They might - or might not - decide that some things were best left to specialist tools and were a step and a cost increase too far for them.

Plus, some people just like cameras and lenses and taking photographs with cameras and lenses. For myself I think that is always underestimated in discussions about technology - some people just like cameras and lenses regardless of what's inside them, who made them or what else those folks could get instead. If there are enough of them, that's the market.

And a subset or niche of that audience probably likes netsuke-like small and will pay for the miniaturization and design involved, just as they did for the Pentax Q for example. In the case of Olympus one needs to look at the continuing influence of Yoshihisa Maitani.
The problem isn't that folks shooting micro four thirds are going to pick up and move to some other format, it is more the question of what draws new users to it versus other brands/sensor sizes. There is an awful lot choice available. Assuming someone has decided they want a mirrorless camera and not an SLR, what makes them decide whether they want micro four thirds, APS-C, or full frame? You can craft relatively small cameras and lenses in each one of these categories for amounts that won't break the bank. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Olympus decides to branch out into another size sensor, even as they continue to make micro four thirds cameras and lenses.

All that said, I certainly don't see the format going away. It seems on pretty solid footing to me.
11-01-2018, 02:36 PM - 3 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by altopiet Quote
Tony Squarespace Northrup
AKA $ony Southdrop!...he is consistent,consistently wrong that is.

The DFA 28-135(kit lens) that he doesnt rate! Ive seen that in a couple of his references to Pentax FF.

But recently his diesel in the Ferrari stunt where he put a card in the EOS R that wasnt compatible and wondered why the camera gave him an error message...THEN made a video about it....Then bought the camera for Vlogging after HIS error that he has never admitted.
He states in that video that nobody should use a 1 slot camera for anything thats important(like his YouTube Vlogs!)

Ya can mislead some of the people all of the time,theres over a million of them!
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