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11-01-2018, 03:01 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Other than Tony Northrop’s verbal version.........
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
No apology necessary, Bill I don't consume Mr Northrup's product... Like any naturalist would, I poke around in it with a stick at arm's length. If I find anything interesting, I take note of it, analyse it and apply my own judgements and opinions

11-01-2018, 03:08 PM   #32
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I don't know about smaller sensor cameras. In my case back in early 2011 I bought a small Pentax...think it was a W90...only had it for a few days. The on/off wouldn't work...camera was always on...I took it back quickly to the store and traded it in, plus some bucks for a Canon G12. My idea to get a small camera...also with a smaller sensor was to have a carry around camera...something I could put in a bigger pocket..kind of like my old Olympus film clamshell. My idea is that the best camera to have is the one with you is the one you have at the 'decisive moment' (apologies to Henri Cartier-Bresson) ...and as I couldn't stuff my Pentax K10D with motordrive into my coat pocket...I decided to think small.

On reflection the small Pentax WG90 would of probably been ok for a carry around, but that sensor was small and the Canon G12 was sort of ok..a little bulky...but I also notice the difference in image quality produced by the small sensor compared to the image quality produced by my Pentax ASP-C (K5, K10D,Km) and K1 full framer. I'm very pleased with image quality coming from the four Pentax DSLR cameras I have...the G12...no...not so much.

Now I know that the G12 sensor size is not as big as the sensor in the M4/3 cameras...but in my case...I believe the absolute minimum sensor size I would be happy with would be the ASP-C. For me a pocketable camera with an ASP-C sensor would be the Ricoh GR 111. The GR has a fixed lens...wide angle... so no problem for me. The only concern I have with the GR 111 is that some earlier models seem to get dust on the sensor. I'll be interested to see if the GR 111 has that issue. If not, this maybe the eventual small carry around camera for me.
11-01-2018, 03:39 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Olympus made fine film cameras - their 'clamshell" pocket cameras were interesting and useful {I had one, lost it, so got a second} - but at this stage I'm not sure what they would add to the market that Sony hasn't figured out.
Better build quality and ergonomics for one. Sony is definitely lacking in those areas.
11-01-2018, 03:53 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Now I know that the G12 sensor size is not as big as the sensor in the M4/3 cameras...but in my case...I believe the absolute minimum sensor size I would be happy with would be the ASP-C.
I tend to agree... and yet, whilst I've never owned an m43 camera, I think you might be surprised at the image quality from the sensor. If you compare test shots from, say, the K-3 and Olympus OM-D E-M5 MkII, there's not a massive difference in detail (a little in favour of the K-3, as you'd expect), nor in noise until ISO 1600 and above (again, slightly in favour of the K-3). At moderate ISOs, and sensible reproduction sizes, I think you'd be hard pushed to see the difference in most photos unless you were told in advance what to look for

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=pentax_k3&attr13_1=oly_em5ii&attr13_2=pentax_k3&attr13_3=pentax_k3&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=200&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr126_1=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-0.11418244406196212&y=-0.9512707741930765


11-01-2018, 04:46 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I tend to agree... and yet, whilst I've never owned an m43 camera, I think you might be surprised at the image quality from the sensor. If you compare test shots from, say, the K-3 and Olympus OM-D E-M5 MkII, there's not a massive difference in detail (a little in favour of the K-3, as you'd expect), nor in noise until ISO 1600 and above (again, slightly in favour of the K-3). At moderate ISOs, and sensible reproduction sizes, I think you'd be hard pushed to see the difference in most photos unless you were told in advance what to look for
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
An old and now shuffled off to that great darkroom in the sky friend ended up using M43 equipment for the size. He was pretty crippled and found the full size stuff too much to handle. There were never any problems with the quality he got from the gear.
Here's an example of what might be coming down the pike to knock off another camera category though:
Yongnuo announces the development of a new mirrorless system camera! - mirrorlessrumors
11-01-2018, 05:05 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
what might be coming down the pike to knock off another camera category
Some(not all) specs are on the other thread,if you havent seen them.
11-01-2018, 05:10 PM   #37
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I quite liked my time with Olympus EM1, but can't go back to it from ff anymore)

I do miss the size though, carried my whole kit (EM1, panaleica 25 1.4, oly 45 1.8 and samyang 12 2) to a trip to Thailand, and had 0 issues with weight walking around with a small backpack.
11-01-2018, 05:49 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Some(not all) specs are on the other thread,if you havent seen them.
I haven't.

11-01-2018, 06:27 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
An old and now shuffled off to that great darkroom in the sky friend ended up using M43 equipment for the size. He was pretty crippled and found the full size stuff too much to handle. There were never any problems with the quality he got from the gear.
Here's an example of what might be coming down the pike to knock off another camera category though:
Yongnuo announces the development of a new mirrorless system camera! - mirrorlessrumors
Meh. A nice wide open OS to send every photo you take straight to Chinese intelligence...
11-01-2018, 07:43 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I tend to agree... and yet, whilst I've never owned an m43 camera, I think you might be surprised at the image quality from the sensor. If you compare test shots from, say, the K-3 and Olympus OM-D E-M5 MkII, there's not a massive difference in detail (a little in favour of the K-3, as you'd expect), nor in noise until ISO 1600 and above (again, slightly in favour of the K-3). At moderate ISOs, and sensible reproduction sizes, I think you'd be hard pushed to see the difference in most photos unless you were told in advance what to look for
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Good to note. I didn't realize that the quality was close in M43 and ASP-C. I find myself drawn to the Ricoh GR 111...pocketable, light, handy. I do want something I carry easily and unobtrusively.
11-01-2018, 08:34 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Good to note. I didn't realize that the quality was close in M43 and ASP-C. I find myself drawn to the Ricoh GR 111...pocketable, light, handy. I do want something I carry easily and unobtrusively.
I have the GR II. You can use it completely one handed. You can check the menu item to make it totally silent. You can check the menu item to fix focus at 1.5 metres or whatever. Connects to your phone with ImageSync for Instagram or whatever (will have to check whether that still works, it's broken on my S8 with the K-1 in its current build!)

Genuinely pocketable in a way most mirrorless cameras aren't, they still need a bag just like a DSLR.

Last edited by clackers; 11-01-2018 at 10:11 PM.
11-01-2018, 09:57 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
you might be surprised at the image quality from the sensor.
It's weaker in low light and its viewfinder is inferior. It's AF is on par with my K-30, so probably a little worse than the K-3. Probably not as good a value proposition as a mid-level APS-C system, but if you are looking for something more compact, it feels and handles great and there is an excellent lens selection for it. If you find Olympus' system attractive, you can buy into it and not feel like you had to sacrifice anything. Most people that actually try it out are pleasantly surprised.

There are virtually no new ILC customers, anywhere. Every buyer of the new big mirrorless cameras has already owned at least a couple of more conventional cameras. If you want to sell a new camera model today, it has to be different enough to make existing users want it for novelty, not to do something they can't do with their current equipment. The other thing camera users want is to stand out from the crowd (even though the crowd is nowhere as big as it used to be), so in time some people will come back to m43 and marvel at how compact it is. As long as Olympus doesn't panic and blow a bunch of money trying to grow their business when there aren't any high potential markets to target, they can stay in the m43 business forever with minimal sales. I could probably say the same about Pentax, although with 3 formats to sell, they have more potential than Olympus.
11-01-2018, 10:36 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
It's weaker in low light and its viewfinder is inferior. It's AF is on par with my K-30, so probably a little worse than the K-3.
which camera are you referring to exactly here?
11-02-2018, 07:38 AM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Meh. A nice wide open OS to send every photo you take straight to Chinese intelligence...
Iím sure they would love your cat pictures. I bought a Huawei P20 pro to replace a Samsung that I had gotten sick of. Itís a pretty nice phone and has a really decent camera. Frankly, I think all the noise about Chinese cell phones is more about stirring up one personís base with red meat than anything else.
11-02-2018, 07:58 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by wibbly Quote
which camera are you referring to exactly here?
The Olympus OM-D E-M5. My daughter bought one last year and we compared it to my K-30 for a week, with the 14-150 and 18-135 lenses. It wasn't a controlled test, but night time pictures around a campfire were better on my K-30 and the lag in the M5's viewfinder is definitely noticeable. Neither camera is particularly good with fast moving objects, even though the Olympus has a higher frame rate. Never compared video, but I'm sure the M5 is better and it is quite a bit smaller as a body and lens package than the K-30. If someone doesn't like to hold and carry a DSLR, I think the M5 is an excellent choice.
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