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05-01-2019, 08:14 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I see the article says: "A much more critical factor is the lens ecosystem and, with only four native RF lenses available, the RP faltered next to the A7 III's rich selection of optics."
If I recall correctly, Sony was also hobbled at one time by a shortage of native lenses for its cameras. Part of the question is how much work they have to do to develop an EOS-R variant of a lens for which they already have have an EOS variant. Canon has some time to get EOS-R lenses on the market, since their EOS cameras apparently are still doing well {a similar graph showing all "FF" cameras would be very interesting}

05-02-2019, 03:14 AM - 1 Like   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I see the article says: "A much more critical factor is the lens ecosystem and, with only four native RF lenses available, the RP faltered next to the A7 III's rich selection of optics."

They should have gone K-mount!
Interesting when every time mirrorless is brought up in respect to Pentax the comments are made that they can get by with their current lens line up with the use of an adapter. Canon has exactly such an adapter -- easier really because of having had electronic aperture control forever -- and their mirrorless sales have not been robust.

It may be that Nikon and Canon can make inroads into the MILC market, but it will mean high expense -- designing new lenses and getting their mirrorless tech up to Sony's level -- and putting nearly all SLR gear developments on the back burner. It may be a few years before they can say that they are established in that market.

For Pentax to go that road could be disastrous...
05-02-2019, 07:28 AM   #138
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I checked the B&H site a few minutes ago.
The top ILC there by number sold are
1. Canon 5Div
2. Nikon 850
3. Sony A7iii
4. Canon 6Dii
5. Sony A6400

Canon as well as could be expected.

If anyone should be worried, that someone is Nikon.
05-02-2019, 01:07 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I checked the B&H site a few minutes ago.
The top ILC there by number sold are
1. Canon 5Div
2. Nikon 850
3. Sony A7iii
4. Canon 6Dii
5. Sony A6400

Canon as well as could be expected.

If anyone should be worried, that someone is Nikon.
Well, as I see it both Canon & Nikon are on the same boat lens wise. Its going to take them what, ~6+ years to release lenses for their new systems? Sony has mainly filled out their high-end lenses, as for low-end thats mainly being taken care of buy 3rd party lens makers and thats just in the last ~2 years or so.

Canon has more of an issue on the video side, seeing as most people put it, they "dont want to hurt their Cine camera sales" so they cripple their dslr video specs (e.g. 5Dmk4, the RP with their Crop-with-added-crop).

05-02-2019, 01:56 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I checked the B&H site a few minutes ago.
The top ILC there by number sold are
1. Canon 5Div
2. Nikon 850
3. Sony A7iii
4. Canon 6Dii
5. Sony A6400

Canon as well as could be expected.

If anyone should be worried, that someone is Nikon.
Interesting!

The other interpretation of the lackluster sales of Canon and Nikon MILCs is that maybe there really isn't a mirrorless revolution. Maybe most of those Canon and Nikon DSLR hold-outs weren't eagerly awaiting Canon and Nikon MILCs after all. Canon and Nikon jumped on the MILC bandwagon only find that their users weren't going to jump with them.

Sure, Sony, Oly, and Pany now have more competition for MILC sales but as both the B&H and Amazon figures show, DSLRs remain the best sellers.

MILC sales have been artificially high because they have had a higher rate of technology turn-over. DSLRs have been maturing for longer so DSLR users have a slower rate of replacement than current MILC users. But once MILCs mature, too, the market will equilibrate to some fairly even split between DSLRs and MILCs.
05-02-2019, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Well, as I see it both Canon & Nikon are on the same boat lens wise. Its going to take them what, ~6+ years to release lenses for their new systems? Sony has mainly filled out their high-end lenses, as for low-end thats mainly being taken care of buy 3rd party lens makers and thats just in the last ~2 years or so
There are 4 Canon RF lenses released:
1. 24-105mm f4L
2. 50mm f1.2L
3. 28-70mm f2L
4. 35mm f1.8

On 9 May the 5th lens will be released, an 85mm f1.2L lens. And the following lenses will be released in the next few months:
6. 15-35mm f2.8L
7. 24-70mm f2.8L
8. 70-200mm f2.8L
9. 24-240mm f/4-6.3
10. 85mm f1.2L DL (a second 85mm lens with apodization effect)

In 2020 another 8 lenses will be released acording to some roadmap rummors, some of them being f4 zoom lenses. Tamron and Sigma said that compatible lenses for Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras will be released soon...

So, 8 high lenses and 2 affordable lenses are almost here, covering 90% of people needs and along with these lenses you can use all the EF lenses without any compromise.

Even so, it seems that "winter is coming" for all manufacturers and it will be interesting to see how they approach it. Canon seems to let go for a while the APS-C line (mirrorless and DSLR) and focus on full frame mirrorless. Tamron representatives recently said also that they will focus mainly on full frame lenses due to market demand and later on they will (maybe) adress the APS-C lenses.
05-02-2019, 03:38 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Interesting!

The other interpretation of the lackluster sales of Canon and Nikon MILCs is that maybe there really isn't a mirrorless revolution. Maybe most of those Canon and Nikon DSLR hold-outs weren't eagerly awaiting Canon and Nikon MILCs after all. Canon and Nikon jumped on the MILC bandwagon only find that their users weren't going to jump with them.

Sure, Sony, Oly, and Pany now have more competition for MILC sales but as both the B&H and Amazon figures show, DSLRs remain the best sellers.

MILC sales have been artificially high because they have had a higher rate of technology turn-over. DSLRs have been maturing for longer so DSLR users have a slower rate of replacement than current MILC users. But once MILCs mature, too, the market will equilibrate to some fairly even split between DSLRs and MILCs.

Sigma Q&A: Lots of L-mount lenses coming, as CEO Yamaki-san predicts mirrorless will take over soon I'm willing to bet that Sigma is paying a lot closer attention to the market than you and their CEO has a different opinion.


DSLR vs Mirrorless:
the market is changing from DSLR to mirrorless much quicker than I thought...Eventually, I think the majority of interchangeable-lens cameras will be mirrorless.
05-02-2019, 04:09 PM - 1 Like   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Sigma Q&A: Lots of L-mount lenses coming, as CEO Yamaki-san predicts mirrorless will take over soon I'm willing to bet that Sigma is paying a lot closer attention to the market than you and their CEO has a different opinion.


DSLR vs Mirrorless:
the market is changing from DSLR to mirrorless much quicker than I thought...Eventually, I think the majority of interchangeable-lens cameras will be mirrorless.
Hmmm.... I'd say Yamaki-san is "talking his book" (the supposedly objective statements of someone who owns shares in a stock and profits from boosting the price).

Sigma is in the business of promoting lens buying and that means promoting new mounts and churn in the use of different mounts. They are going to milk lots of profits from the new MILC mounts but only if they can convince people they need to switch to mirrorless.

05-02-2019, 04:12 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm willing to bet that Sigma is paying a lot closer attention to the market than you and their CEO has a different opinion.
And Tamron in a recent interview indicated that Z mount lenses were not a long way off.
05-02-2019, 04:13 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Interesting!

The other interpretation of the lackluster sales of Canon and Nikon MILCs is that maybe there really isn't a mirrorless revolution. Maybe most of those Canon and Nikon DSLR hold-outs weren't eagerly awaiting Canon and Nikon MILCs after all. Canon and Nikon jumped on the MILC bandwagon only find that their users weren't going to jump with them.
Canon and Nikon didn't jump on any bandwagon; they've never said they are putting all their efforts into MILC. What they do want, is for any X (*) users who do jump to MILC to remain with X.


(*) Substitute Canon or Nikon for X in both places of use.
05-02-2019, 04:25 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
they've never said they are putting all their efforts into MILC.
Actually,Canon stated that their effort for 2019 is to provide RF mount glass.Nikon are preparing the D6 for launch though,maybe Canon have a dslr counter?

---------- Post added 05-03-19 at 10:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
but only if they can convince people they need to switch to mirrorless.
Sigma dont care what mount(dslr or M/L),if they can make it they will sell it.
05-02-2019, 07:02 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
---------- Post added 05-03-19 at 10:28 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

Sigma dont care what mount(dslr or M/L),if they can make it they will sell it.
*If they can sell alot of them/make a big profit from it, they'll make it & sell it
05-03-2019, 03:14 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There are 4 Canon RF lenses released:
1. 24-105mm f4L
2. 50mm f1.2L
3. 28-70mm f2L
4. 35mm f1.8

On 9 May the 5th lens will be released, an 85mm f1.2L lens. And the following lenses will be released in the next few months:
6. 15-35mm f2.8L
7. 24-70mm f2.8L
8. 70-200mm f2.8L
9. 24-240mm f/4-6.3
10. 85mm f1.2L DL (a second 85mm lens with apodization effect)

In 2020 another 8 lenses will be released acording to some roadmap rummors, some of them being f4 zoom lenses. Tamron and Sigma said that compatible lenses for Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras will be released soon...

So, 8 high lenses and 2 affordable lenses are almost here, covering 90% of people needs and along with these lenses you can use all the EF lenses without any compromise.

Even so, it seems that "winter is coming" for all manufacturers and it will be interesting to see how they approach it. Canon seems to let go for a while the APS-C line (mirrorless and DSLR) and focus on full frame mirrorless. Tamron representatives recently said also that they will focus mainly on full frame lenses due to market demand and later on they will (maybe) adress the APS-C lenses.
Sure.

But there is a cost to this. It is expensive to release a full lens line up for a new mount and it means that R and D resources are focused on the new mount rather than on the older mount. I think the question is if Pentax has the resources to go into such a marketplace.

On the other hand, if they are one of the few manufacturers still releasing new lenses for SLRs then that could be a niche that actually grows a bit over time (not everyone likes MILCs).
05-03-2019, 04:07 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure.

But there is a cost to this. It is expensive to release a full lens line up for a new mount and it means that R and D resources are focused on the new mount rather than on the older mount.
They said that in the near future 2019-2021 they will concentrate on developing the mirrorless line. The 1Dx Mark III may be the only DSLR that Canon will release according to some. I hope they are wrong and I will see at least the 5D Mark V also.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the question is if Pentax has the resources to go into such a marketplace.
They are barely releasing lenses for K1/K1 Mark II.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
On the other hand, if they are one of the few manufacturers still releasing new lenses for SLRs then that could be a niche that actually grows a bit over time (not everyone likes MILCs).
Could be... But I think that the young generation is moving with trends and I don't know that in 5-7 years DSLRs will be in demand anymore. And the ones that do love DSLRs will have to make a difficult choice: sell all their gear and move to Pentax so that they can enjoy the benefits of shooting with a DSLR or adapt to changes and adopt mirrorless. I'm having headaches from EVF and that's the main problem for me when comes to mirrorless. But I'm working slowly in adapting to EVF and it's better now than it was 1-2 years ago. Look at old people and how they adapted to smartphones and how they use it day by day...
05-03-2019, 06:44 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure.

But there is a cost to this. It is expensive to release a full lens line up for a new mount and it means that R and D resources are focused on the new mount rather than on the older mount. I think the question is if Pentax has the resources to go into such a marketplace.
Of course Pentax doesn't - but this thread is about Canon, which probably does, especially since their excellent EF lineup gives them a running start.
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