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05-03-2019, 06:55 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote

Sigma dont care what mount(dslr or M/L),if they can make it they will sell it.
Sigma may not care which mount, but they need to promote churn.

If no one switches mounts, chances are they will stay with their existing lenses. It's when people switch mounts that Sigma gets a big chance to sell more lenses. That's why Sigma and Tamron are claiming that the future is mirrorless because mirrorless is how they'll make the most money.

05-03-2019, 06:56 AM - 1 Like   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Of course Pentax doesn't - but this thread is about Canon, which probably does, especially since their excellent EF lineup gives them a running start.
Sure.

Canon will be fine. If nothing else, they are the biggest camera brand and have a lot of other businesses to help support cameras if photography gear takes a down turn for a bit. I'm just pointing out that there is a general fallacy that it is enough just to drop a MILC on the market and your brand will gain market share.

It is a lot harder than that and the camera and the lenses have to be such that photographers see a clear benefit or their current gear (smaller size, faster frame rates, better video, whatever). I think that thus far, Canon and Nikon's mirrorless experience is mixed at best.
06-21-2019, 06:30 PM   #153
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A late review.

...$1299 may be launch price but downunder a bit over 1100 at times and that includes the standard adapter.

Also the kit zoom 24-240 is about to happen.

This guy does nice reviews.
07-02-2019, 06:27 AM   #154
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Canon RP costs even a bit less than Fuji's APS-C X-T30, but these new Canon RF L lenses cost more than Fuji's MF GFs... Intersting marketing.

07-02-2019, 08:44 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coiseam Quote
Canon RP costs even a bit less than Fuji's APS-C X-T30, but these new Canon RF L lenses cost more than Fuji's MF GFs... Intersting marketing.
Canon RF 85 1.2 costs about $3K. Canon selling at those prices let me thinking, thinking... what happens to the camera industry isn't good at all. Who will be able to afford lenses priced $3K? Nikon's MILC offering seems more down to earth.
07-02-2019, 09:01 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure.

Canon will be fine. If nothing else, they are the biggest camera brand and have a lot of other businesses to help support cameras if photography gear takes a down turn for a bit. I'm just pointing out that there is a general fallacy that it is enough just to drop a MILC on the market and your brand will gain market share.

It is a lot harder than that and the camera and the lenses have to be such that photographers see a clear benefit or their current gear (smaller size, faster frame rates, better video, whatever). I think that thus far, Canon and Nikon's mirrorless experience is mixed at best.
I doubt Canon and Nikon really expected to set the world on fire. The most lucrative sales will come at the upper end from their professional and prosumer customers, a market that's conservative about sudden changes of direction because it likes to stick to what works and maintain the value/usability of lens portfolios. This will change for sure, but quite slowly. I'm sure Canon and Nikon know that. I've met two professional photographers in the past few days and both had just purchased a Nikon Z6 to add to their arsenal. The advantage, both said, was silent operation through the viewfinder instead of being limited to silent operation via live view off the back of the camera. LV operation is no good for concert/event photography when you're trying to capture the key moments of expression of faces on a stage with a longer lens, for example (which is what both photographers were doing).
07-02-2019, 10:19 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Canon RF 85 1.2 costs about $3K. Canon selling at those prices let me thinking, thinking... what happens to the camera industry isn't good at all. Who will be able to afford lenses priced $3K? Nikon's MILC offering seems more down to earth.
I suppose Nikon's f1.4 offerings will cost the same, just Canon decided to issue their hi-tech L lenses first. Just wonder how much will Nikon's 58 0.95 cost Meanwhile Fuji's MF portrait 110 2 is $2300. Really, if something very bad happens to Pentax within next 5-7 years and I will be tempted to change the brand, with these price tags I will rather look at Fuji's MF offerings on a second-hand market.

But the best comparison is beyween these new 50s: Canon 1.2 vs Panasonic 1.4 vs Pentax 1.4 is now $2300 vs $2300 vs $1000 (checked at BH, alas in my native Moscow Pentax costs about $1250). Just madness.
07-02-2019, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coiseam Quote
Meanwhile Fuji's MF portrait 110 2 is $2300.
That's exactly what I realized. New u4/3 (E-MX1) gets as expensive as FF, and the new mirrorless FF systems are getting as expensive as MF of a few years back. Imaging capability hasn't improved as fast as prices. A few years back , FF DSLRs looked expensive (from apsc)... but now in 2019, the former models such as K1, D810 look cheap.

07-02-2019, 10:33 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Imaging capability hasn't improved as fast as prices.
Perhaps these new lenses can resolve 70+ megapixel sensors... So we can wait for mirrorless Canon 5DS analogs priced like rockets
07-02-2019, 10:36 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coiseam Quote
Perhaps these new lenses can resolve 70+ megapixel sensors... So we can wait for mirrorless Canon 5DS analogs priced like rockets
From what I've been told by retailers, we should expect a bump in camera specs in the next coming years. The problem will be that at 70+ Mp diffraction will be showing up more often than not.
07-02-2019, 10:47 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
From what I've been told by retailers, we should expect a bump in camera specs in the next coming years. The problem will be that at 70+ Mp diffraction will be showing up more often than not.
For high megapixel offerings (Sony A7R analogs) I predict that building a system based on Fuji's first gen MF offerings will be actually cheaper than on not-yet-issued Canon's and Sony's. Though FF have wider lens selection. From the other side, right now new Sigma and Tamron lenses are much closer to (if not better than) main brand offerings and still reasonably priced.
07-02-2019, 01:28 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coiseam Quote
Canon RP costs even a bit less than Fuji's APS-C X-T30
Where?

QuoteOriginally posted by Coiseam Quote
these new Canon RF L lenses cost more than Fuji's MF GFs...
Where?
07-02-2019, 11:42 PM - 1 Like   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Where?
Sorry, cheaper than X-T3 of course, thanks for noticing that. Both at BH and in Moscow. The same with new Canon RF 85 1.2 vs Fujinon 110 2.

At BH RP is $1300, X-T3 is $1400, X-T30 with 18-55 2.8-4 zoom + SD card + camera bag is the same $1300 as RP.
07-03-2019, 01:15 AM   #164
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FF getting cheaper is nice but I think it's being hobbled by two factors - the lenses are generally very expensive (especially in the case of Canon) and Canon's crappy sensors that they insist on churning out and putting in cameras which otherwise might be fairly good.

I'll take an APS-C camera with a good sensor in it over a FF with a crappy sensor any day. FF with crappy sensor means it's only real benefit is lower DoF (if you like that), no extra dynamic range.
07-03-2019, 03:01 AM - 1 Like   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
FF getting cheaper is nice but I think it's being hobbled by two factors - the lenses are generally very expensive (especially in the case of Canon) and Canon's crappy sensors that they insist on churning out and putting in cameras which otherwise might be fairly good.

I'll take an APS-C camera with a good sensor in it over a FF with a crappy sensor any day. FF with crappy sensor means it's only real benefit is lower DoF (if you like that), no extra dynamic range.
I think Canon's crappy sensors are overstated. They have a bit less dynamic range at base iso, but still have less shadow noise throughout the iso range and they match any of Sony's sensors once you get to iso 400 and above with regard to dynamic range too.

To me, the benefits of full frame sensors are that you get better dynamic range in high iso settings (along with less noise) compared to smaller sensor size. If you are only shooting iso 80 or 100 you will do as well with a K5 IIs (except for resolution, if you need that).
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