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02-19-2019, 02:06 PM - 3 Likes   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's for sure. But what happens after people have spend thousands of dollar/euro into their Brand A camera, they never like to be told that what they purchased isn't as good as...brand B. Swap A and B , it feels the same.[COLOR="Silver"]
I don't have a problem with camera A being better than camera B or B being better than C and so on. But I don't like when people give verdicts for cameras like EOS RP in this case based on some random internet reviews published after one day after the launch of the camera. It was the same when DPReview made that stupid test with the bicycle and gave the verdict for K1. The same said Winder when he spoke about Canon vs Sony without arguments. For him A7 II is better than EOS RP, the A9 is better than 1Dx II and so on.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The lady looks like she forces herself to smile, it's much more visible than the noise difference between the two images. Imagine she would have a genuine smile on the noisiest sensor, the photograph would still look better than the image with no smile and no noise.
In Romania the wedding starts at 10:00 AM and it ends next day at 5:00 or 6:00 AM. The image from the "comparation test" was taken at 3:25AM, after an entire day of dancing and going from church to the restaurant to the photo shoot and so on. She wanted lots of photos but she was very tired and is visible in a lot of images.


QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Imagine she would have a genuine smile on the noisiest sensor, the photograph would still look better than the image with no smile and no noise.
I don't have to imagine because I have lots of images with her when her smile is natural. For me the attitude in the portraits makes or breaks a portrait. It is more important than noise, camera used, etc.

Here is the genuine smile that I'm looking for when I shoot portraits.



02-19-2019, 08:39 PM   #107
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My friend was looking for a camera. He knows nothing as far as photography goes, but is going with a rp. I gave him cons of the system, but it didn't matter. With the pricing how it was at, the reputation that Canon has(those are the biggest 2), and the fact that he was able to hold it in store was enough for him to preorder one. The camera essentially is made for beginners, and will attract people getting into photography.

02-19-2019, 11:03 PM   #108
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It will be a competent stills camera,straight out of the box.Canon can firmware up the video if they need to.
The RP will lead the FF sales numbers in 2019 for the reasons your friend ordered it.
02-19-2019, 11:18 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
My friend was looking for a camera. He knows nothing as far as photography goes, but is going with a rp. I gave him cons of the system, but it didn't matter. With the pricing how it was at, the reputation that Canon has(those are the biggest 2), and the fact that he was able to hold it in store was enough for him to preorder one. The camera essentially is made for beginners, and will attract people getting into photography.
If he knows nothing about photography, this camera is already too capable for him. Someone posted on the Facebook group where I'm admin that he bought a Nikon D5600 with an 18-140mm lens and he wants us to tell him how he can take portraits with blurred background. Many of these people will not invest time in learning photography and they will not buy another lens either so any camera can do the job for them.

And I agree with Surfar: because of the low price, because you will find it in any camera store, because Canon is well known as a brand and because it's new and good looking, it will sell good for beginners and for the ones that want a decent travel camera.

With a 40mm f2.8 pancake lens that weights 130g it will be lighter than some Olympus cameras and for street photography will also be a good combo.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 02-19-2019 at 11:41 PM.
02-20-2019, 12:02 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
If he knows nothing about photography, this camera is already too capable for him. Someone posted on the Facebook group where I'm admin that he bought a Nikon D5600 with an 18-140mm lens and he wants us to tell him how he can take portraits with blurred background. Many of these people will not invest time in learning photography and they will not buy another lens either so any camera can do the job for them.



And I agree with Surfar: because of the low price, because you will find it in any camera store, because Canon is well known as a brand and because it's new and good looking, it will sell good for beginners and for the ones that want a decent travel camera.



With a 40mm f2.8 pancake lens that weights 130g it will be lighter than some Olympus cameras and for street photography will also be a good combo.
Oh I completely agree, and I've brought it up. Time will only tell if it will be tossed into the closet or be used. Hopefully he will take it up as a hobby and learn and not get discouraged.

02-20-2019, 01:38 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
My friend was looking for a camera. He knows nothing as far as photography goes, but is going with a rp.
Did you mean he knows nothing about camera gear? Because a lot of people know a great deal about camera gear while being undeveloped in photography per say.
People who develop well into the making of compelling photographs take any camera given to them and produce the same result. The "pros" often get sponsored and they use what they get for free, I know a number of them who just do that and even promote what they use as an additional source of revenue, they don't take the camera they prefer, they take the camera models of the brand that is financially most generous to them, and their photographs still have no equal from camera forum posters. If a "pro" get contacted by Canon to shoot with a Canon RP, given the incentive from Canon, he'll take the EOS RP and produce outstanding images with it (using models, strobes or traveling to a great landscape location paid by the camera company).
02-20-2019, 03:32 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Did you mean he knows nothing about camera gear? Because a lot of people know a great deal about camera gear while being undeveloped in photography per say.
People who develop well into the making of compelling photographs take any camera given to them and produce the same result. The "pros" often get sponsored and they use what they get for free, I know a number of them who just do that and even promote what they use as an additional source of revenue, they don't take the camera they prefer, they take the camera models of the brand that is financially most generous to them, and their photographs still have no equal from camera forum posters. If a "pro" get contacted by Canon to shoot with a Canon RP, given the incentive from Canon, he'll take the EOS RP and produce outstanding images with it (using models, strobes or traveling to a great landscape location paid by the camera company).
Agreed. We see this all the time. People shoot what they shoot and when they switch brands or cameras, they usually continue to do the same. They may get a few more frame per second from their new brand, but as far as image quality and composition and vision -- those things actually change much less than you might think. Because the major factor in what images come out is the photographer. Some of us develop over time, but many get to a comfortable place and then stay there.

I do think that the most important thing is that you feel comfortable taking your camera with you and enjoy using it. I actually don't like smaller cameras with fewer buttons because I find that I have to do a lot of menu diving to access things. But there are probably plenty of people for whom a micro four thirds camera (one of the small ones) with variable aperture zoom is the biggest they'll go and actually bring their camera along with them.
02-20-2019, 08:06 AM   #113
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this will be big thing for Canon. one thing will be if it is performing well, or not. but it will ring lot of bells. there will be even more of forum rage coming. of why should we/ or(pentax)not have mirrorless, with better specs and even less than what this goes for. this is pretty much under cutting Nikon Z6, but also trying to get that A7II segment from bleeding their fanbase.

maybe.


Last edited by repaap; 02-20-2019 at 10:59 AM.
02-20-2019, 08:35 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Did you mean he knows nothing about camera gear? Because a lot of people know a great deal about camera gear while being undeveloped in photography per say.
People who develop well into the making of compelling photographs take any camera given to them and produce the same result. The "pros" often get sponsored and they use what they get for free, I know a number of them who just do that and even promote what they use as an additional source of revenue, they don't take the camera they prefer, they take the camera models of the brand that is financially most generous to them, and their photographs still have no equal from camera forum posters. If a "pro" get contacted by Canon to shoot with a Canon RP, given the incentive from Canon, he'll take the EOS RP and produce outstanding images with it (using models, strobes or traveling to a great landscape location paid by the camera company).
I meant photography, which includes not limited to gear, shutter speed, aperture, iso, exposure, composition, etc. Didn't matter what was explained to him as far as the concepts went. The marketing did wonders, and the price did too.

02-20-2019, 10:27 PM   #115
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No sure if it's the right place to post. I've borrowed a Canon EOS R and 24-105 kit for a day. Great user experience: comfortable grip/handling (but not as good as the Pentax K1/II, but better than Z7, and much better than Sony A7/9), relatively light weight, and completely silent operation, lots of AF points, quick to focus (it is almost impossible to notice it focused already), continuous autofocus is great (equivalent can be done with Pentax K1 but Pentax users are used to focus and then shot separately which is the wrong technique for weddings). EVF onthe R is better than EVF on the Z. The 24-105 f4 L glass renders fantastic. That's all great for stills. Great job Canon, for still photography. Now, if you felt like the Pentax K1 is slow in burst mode and AF tracking of moving subject, don't get an EOS R... because the Pentax K1 does better AFC tracking with faster FPS than the EOS R. I'll keep enjoying my K1s, also I felt relief when switching back from EOS R EVF to the K1 OVF of the K1, simply, nothing beat an OVF for the visual comfort. If OVF has to go, a lot of people will regret it. As for ergonomics, I'm afraid that the EOS RP won't cut it (too small for the big lenses.. the 24-105 f4 is one of the smallest of the lot but still a little oversized for the EOS R).

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-20-2019 at 10:35 PM.
02-20-2019, 10:35 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
No sure if it's the right place to post. I've borrowed a Canon EOS R and 24-105 kit for a day. Great user experience: comfortable grip/handling (but not as good as the Pentax K1/II, but better than Z7, and much better than Sony A7/9), relatively light weight, and completely silent operation, lots of AF points, quick to focus (it is almost impossible to notice it focused already), continuous autofocus is great (equivalent can be done with Pentax K1 but Pentax users are used to focus and then shot separately which is the wrong technique for weddings). EVF onthe R is better than EVF on the Z. The 24-105 f4 L glass renders fantastic. That's all great for stills. Now, if you felt like the Pentax K1 is slow in burst mode and AF tracking of moving subject, don't get an EOS R... because the Pentax K1 does better AFC tracking with faster FPS than the EOS R. Great job Canon... but there are pros and cons, real life use shows that mirror-less ain't what people cry online. I'll keep enjoying my K1s, also I felt relief when switching back from EVF to the OVF of the K1, simply, nothing beat an OVF for the visual comfort.
Did you check it in low light? Curious on af in low light, and tones. Also how was that lens compared to the dfa 28-105? Curious on if the extra 4mm is nice, quality wise, size wise.

02-20-2019, 10:41 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Also how was that lens compared to the dfa 28-105? Curious on if the extra 4mm is nice, quality wise, size wise.
The RF 24-105 is significantly bigger than the DFA28-105. It's totally silent. The RF 24-105 is kinda half way between the DFA28-105 and DFA24-70. It came to my mind that I could sell my K1 and buy the EOS R 24-105 kit, but the unknown wide angle lens and size and price of the RF 85 1.2 put me off. The RF 24-105 already large compared to the EOS R, and I see myself using lens such as the 28-70 f2 or 85 1.2 on the EOS R. I would prefer to have 24-105 f4 with 85 1.8 and 20mm f4. MILC bodies are smaller (for travel kit) but the advantage is lost if used with big glass. The Pentax DFA28-205 on the EOS R body would be perfect :-)
02-20-2019, 10:51 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The RF 24-105 is significantly bigger than the DFA28-105. It's totally silent.
Normal for Canon since they went to the EF-mount thirty-plus years ago.
02-20-2019, 10:53 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
No sure if it's the right place to post. I've borrowed a Canon EOS R and 24-105 kit for a day. Great user experience: comfortable grip/handling (but not as good as the Pentax K1/II, but better than Z7, and much better than Sony A7/9), relatively light weight, and completely silent operation, lots of AF points, quick to focus (it is almost impossible to notice it focused already), continuous autofocus is great (equivalent can be done with Pentax K1 but Pentax users are used to focus and then shot separately which is the wrong technique for weddings). EVF onthe R is better than EVF on the Z. The 24-105 f4 L glass renders fantastic. That's all great for stills. Great job Canon, for still photography. Now, if you felt like the Pentax K1 is slow in burst mode and AF tracking of moving subject, don't get an EOS R... because the Pentax K1 does better AFC tracking with faster FPS than the EOS R. I'll keep enjoying my K1s, also I felt relief when switching back from EOS R EVF to the K1 OVF of the K1, simply, nothing beat an OVF for the visual comfort. If OVF has to go, a lot of people will regret it. As for ergonomics, I'm afraid that the EOS RP won't cut it (too small for the big lenses.. the 24-105 f4 is one of the smallest of the lot but still a little oversized for the EOS R).
You pretty much experienced the same thing as me with EOS R. I do like the EVF from this camera but I love OVF from DSLRs. The AF-C will be improved with the upcoming firmware update if we are ready to belive what Canon said in a press release. But the af on stills seems super fast. And the new Canon mirrorless lenses are really interesting.

As for handling EOS RP, Canon offer an optional small "grip" that once it attached to the camera the grip will become similar to EOS R. Knowing the short positive experience that I had with EOS R, I'm intrigued about EOS RP as a small travel camera. I have to wait for the stores to start renting this camera and see how enjoyable is to use it.

---------- Post added 02-21-19 at 05:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Did you check it in low light? Curious on af in low light, and tones. Also how was that lens compared to the dfa 28-105? Curious on if the extra 4mm is nice, quality wise, size wise.
If you like Youtube videos (I know I don't), here is a video where these guys tested EOR R vs. Sony A7 III even in low light.

02-20-2019, 11:04 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Normal for Canon since they went to the EF-mount thirty-plus years ago.
Sure, and the latest Pentax DFA lenses aren't far off being completely silent. What's not silent with Pentax is the up and down of the mirror when I'm in LV mode and I want to change a camera setting (clack-clack, clack-clack, clack-clack all the time), I would expect to have a firmware change. Some of the stuff on the EOS R such as continuous AF could be added as select-able option in firmware for the K1. Ricoh, are you listening?

---------- Post added 21-02-19 at 07:12 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
If you like Youtube videos (I know I don't), here is a video where these guys tested EOR R vs. Sony A7 III even in low light.
I've tried the A7III in low light, my K1 with the DFA28-105 was faster to lock focus. The EOS R single focus isn't hype as much as the Sony, but the difference is the Canon deliver more than expected, and the Sony deliver less than claimed. From what I've seen with the EOS R single focus speed, it "blows the A7III out of the water".

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-20-2019 at 11:13 PM.
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