[Dan Rentea]

The Olympus OMD-EM1.2 has more dynamic range than the Canon 6DII and probably the new EOS-RP. It has much better AF and a professional level build quality. Olympus also has some pretty amazing IBIS (7 stops). The number of features Olympus puts in their cameras is simply amazing.


The EOS-RP has a 1.8x crop in 4K video mode with significant artifacts and softness. Having 4K on the spec sheet and actually having usable 4K are two different things.


The OMD-EM1.2 and the new OMD-EMX both outperform the entire Canon APS-C line-up and the Canon 6D in most ways.


The Sony A7II is under $1,000 with better AF, better image quality, IBIS, better video (no 4k though), and more native glass options than the EOS-RP. The Sony A7II is also a 4 year old camera. That is how far behind Canon is in technology.

Please tell me that you tested at least for a week the EOS RP and the above conclusions are based on your direct experience.

I tested lots of cameras and Olympus and Fuji were on top of my list because I'm in the market for a small camera for vacations and as a backup for my DSLR. The EM1 Mark II's EVF is mediocre at best, it has some lag that is frustating when shooting some action and it's horrible in low light, the af is not even close to 7D Mark II or 80D (or even with 6D Mark II, despite the fact that Canon has the af points not to well spreaded) and high ISO is again, mediocre.

I don't shoot video and I can't comment on this. Yes, the build quality is great and IBIS is impressive on Oly cameras. But at 1699$ for me as a photographer E-M1 Mark II is way, way overpriced. And try to replicate a portrait taken with K1, 6D, D610 and a 50mm f1.4 or f1.2 lens with an Oly. And then do that again in a small restaurant and see the differences in bokeh, colors and noise at high ISO.

And don't get me started with A7 II. The af from that camera is decent in daylight. I took it at one indoor event and boy, what a joke of a camera in low light. Af was hunting and jumped from the subject as soon as something contrastly was near the subject, the images at ISO 3200 looks without details in some areas, the viewfinder is miles away from A7R III...

Sony got it right with A7R III/A9 and almost right with A7 III. But telling me how good is A7 II or E-M1 Mark II compared with a camera launched today it tells me that you have too much faith in internet reviews.

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Last edited by Dan Rentea; 02-15-2019 at 12:04 PM.

[gatorguy]

I rather see the new Fuji X-T30 as a competition to KP instead of Canon RP.

People looking for a full frame camera would presumably know why they WANT full-frame, and that entry-level Canon doesn't look to me to be one that would be highly desirable for an informed crowd.

IMO the target market for both is the new shooter on a budget who has no real idea of the practical differences between APS-C and full-frame. nor would probably notice there's a difference to begin with. They just keep hearing the "mirrorless" hype. If they pay attention to price and features, then take a look at comparable prices for the proper lenses to take advantage of their new mirrorless the Fuji looks like the far better choice IMO and that's who they'll be competing against, along with the upcoming Sony A6400 (which suffers from the same over-priced Sony lens issue that Canon will be playing in)

Give away the printer and stiff 'em on the ink. Fuji just isn't sticking it to them quite as hard, and they have a rep for excellent glass just as Canon generally does.

All stated as my opinion of course.

[mecrox]

The Olympus OMD-EM1.2 has more dynamic range than the Canon 6DII and probably the new EOS-RP. It has much better AF and a professional level build quality. Olympus also has some pretty amazing IBIS (7 stops). The number of features Olympus puts in their cameras is simply amazing.


The EOS-RP has a 1.8x crop in 4K video mode with significant artifacts and softness. Having 4K on the spec sheet and actually having usable 4K are two different things.


The OMD-EM1.2 and the new OMD-EMX both outperform the entire Canon APS-C line-up and the Canon 6D in most ways.


The Sony A7II is under $1,000 with better AF, better image quality, IBIS, better video (no 4k though), and more native glass options than the EOS-RP. The Sony A7II is also a 4 year old camera. That is how far behind Canon is in technology.

Although I agree with you about the capabilities of Olympus, in the end it's a marketing and numbers game in which the odds are heavily weighted in favour of the big three outfits. They can simply outspend everyone else. The big three are fighting to get as many as possible into their systems and moving up the escalator and I would expect all the smaller outfits to get hit pretty hard by the scrapping. They may not go out of business but I could see "zombie mode" for them where they slow their camera businesses to a crawl and concentrate on selling to a core of long-term loyalist users. Most everyone else will migrate to the big three and probably to FF.

I like Olympus for example and they have done very well for me, but I agree with Dan R. that their prices are too high these days at least where I live. Too high, that is, compared to what I can get elsewhere now. And that's the problem. What I can get elsewhere now comes from the big three which have the funds to put in the R&D and then capitalize on economies of scale because they make that many more units of anything. This is really hard for small outfits to do, so they risk ending up looking either overpriced or behind the times or both.

[Dan Rentea]

People looking for a full frame camera would presumably know why they WANT full-frame, and that entry-level Canon doesn't look to me to be one that would be highly desirable for an informed crowd.

IMO the target market for both is the new shooter on a budget who has no real idea of the practical differences between APS-C and full-frame. nor would probably notice there's a difference to begin with. They just keep hearing the "mirrorless" hype. If they pay attention to price and features, then take a look at comparable prices for the proper lenses to take advantage of their new mirrorless the Fuji looks like the far better choice IMO and that's who they'll be competing against, along with the upcoming Sony A6400 (which suffers from the same over-priced Sony lens issue that Canon will be playing in)

Give away the printer and stiff 'em on the ink. Fuji just isn't sticking it to them quite as hard, and they have a rep for excellent glass just as Canon generally does.

All stated as my opinion of course.

I really like Fuji the most from all the current mirrorless cameras/brands. But it is expensive to add a Fuji in my backpack as a second system. But, if my gear would be stolen tomorow, I would consider Fuji to start a new system and I would also keep a close eye at the prices of their medium format cameras.

[Winder]

Please tell me that you tested at least for a week the EOS RP and the above conclusions are based on your direct experience.

I tested lots of cameras and Olympus and Fuji were on top of my list because I'm in the market for a small camera for vacations and as a backup for my DSLR. The EM1 Mark II's EVF is mediocre at best, it has some lag that is frustating when shooting some action and it's horrible in low light, the af is not even close to 7D Mark II or 80D (or even with 6D Mark II, despite the fact that Canon has the af points not to well spreaded) and high ISO is again, mediocre.

I don't shoot video and I can't comment on this. Yes, the build quality is great and IBIS is impressive on Oly cameras. But at 1699$ for me as a photographer E-M1 Mark II is way, way overpriced. And try to replicate a portrait taken with K1, 6D, D610 and a 50mm f1.4 or f1.2 lens with an Oly. And then do that again in a small restaurant and see the differences in bokeh, colors and noise at high ISO.

And don't get me started with A7 II. The af from that camera is decent in daylight. I took it at one indoor event and boy, what a joke of a camera in low light. Af was hunting and jumped from the subject as soon as something contrastly was near the subject, the images at ISO 3200 looks without details in some areas, the viewfinder is miles away from A7R III...

Sony got it right with A7R III/A9 and almost right with A7 III. But telling me how good is A7 II or E-M1 Mark II compared with a camera launched today it tells me that you have too much faith in internet reviews.

I sold my A7II to a guy who had the Canon 6D. I have shot indoor weddings with the A7II. I have only rarely had AF issues with the camera. He no longer shoots Canon, but he used my A7II several times over the course of a year before buying it. I will ask him next time I see him, but last I heard he was pretty happy with the A7II and the upgrade over the 6D. Maybe the 6DII is a big step up, but I doubt it. I've never had any interest in the 6D series, so I never bother to shoot with it.


I have used the OMD-EM1.2 a good bit and I really like the camera. I obviously have not used the OMD-EM1X. I don't know what version of firmware you were using on the OMD-EM1.2, or the glass you had, but the 45mm F/1.2 and the 75mm F/1.8 both focused pretty quickly in low-light. Nothing like the A9, but snappy enough. I realize you won't get the same bokeh, but at 800 ISO you can still make an excellent A3+ sized print which is larger than most people EVER print. If I needed high-ISO and big prints then I wouldn't be selecting the OMD-EM1.2 for my work, but neither would I select a Canon 6D or any Canon for that matter.


I don't plan on getting the EOS-RP to test, but all the internet review pretty much say the same thing. Everyone on the internet wants to claim the DPR and these review sites are in Canon$ pocket, but none of the reviewers have been very positive on the EOS-R, EOS-RP, or the 6D/6DII. I'm not anti-Canon. I shot Canon for years. All the way up to the 5D original which was an awesome camera for its time. I had the AE-1, EOS 620, EOS 3, EOS RT, & 5D. The glass for the EOS-R system seems to be excellent, but the bodies and technology are trailing the rest of the industry.


I have 2 Sony A9 bodies and I don't see any reason to look at anything Canon or Nikon make at this point. The new Panasonics and the coming Fuji GFX-100 are the most interesting cameras coming this year.

[Dan Rentea]

I sold my A7II to a guy who had the Canon 6D. I have shot indoor weddings with the A7II. I have only rarely had AF issues with the camera. He no longer shoots Canon, but he used my A7II several times over the course of a year before buying it. I will ask him next time I see him, but last I heard he was pretty happy with the A7II and the upgrade over the 6D. Maybe the 6DII is a big step up, but I doubt it. I've never had any interest in the 6D series, so I never bother to shoot with it.

I had 6D for a long time, I've shot with A7 II and for indoor shooting with people at business conferences the af wasn't what I expected.

I have used the OMD-EM1.2 a good bit and I really like the camera. I obviously have not used the OMD-EM1X. I don't know what version of firmware you were using on the OMD-EM1.2, or the glass you had, but the 45mm F/1.2 and the 75mm F/1.8 both focused pretty quickly in low-light. Nothing like the A9, but snappy enough. I realize you won't get the same bokeh, but at 800 ISO you can still make an excellent A3+ sized print which is larger than most people EVER print. If I needed high-ISO and big prints then I wouldn't be selecting the OMD-EM1.2 for my work, but neither would I select a Canon 6D or any Canon for that matter.

I can use OM-D E-M1 even tomorow. A friend of mine has it for sell. I've shot with 45mm f1.2 and with 300mm f4 (both beautiful lenses). The focus is better in low light than the one from A7II, but the viewfinder and the high ISO are bad. At corporate events I don't have the luxury to shoot at ISO 800. I shoot at ISO between 1600 and 4000.

Again, it is interesting that you talk about how Canon lag behind but you haven't use a Canon since the original 5D.

I don't plan on getting the EOS-RP to test, but all the internet review pretty much say the same thing. Everyone on the internet wants to claim the DPR and these review sites are in Canon$ pocket, but none of the reviewers have been very positive on the EOS-R, EOS-RP, or the 6D/6DII. I'm not anti-Canon. I shot Canon for years. All the way up to the 5D original which was an awesome camera for its time. I had the AE-1, EOS 620, EOS 3, EOS RT, & 5D. The glass for the EOS-R system seems to be excellent, but the bodies and technology are trailing the rest of the industry.

I learned long time ago that internet reviews are just paid orders from producers or from stores. Look at A6500 for example. At the initial review, the percentage of images in focus using eye af was between 60 and 80%, depending on who you asked. Now that A6400 came out, the percentage of images in focus with A6500 using eye af dropped to 25-35%.

As I said, I can make any camera to work in my advantage if needed, but I prefer to talk from my experience rather than "quoting" the online reviewers. I don't have a problem with people who have different experiences than mine, but it's not funny to talk to someone who never shot with one of the cameras that he talks about and has as an argument internet reviews.

I have 2 Sony A9 bodies and I don't see any reason to look at anything Canon or Nikon make at this point. The new Panasonics and the coming Fuji GFX-100 are the most interesting cameras coming this year.

I have a 5D Mark IV and I don't see any reason to look at A9 or D850, Z7, etc. I would choose anytime 1Dx Mark II for fast action instead of A9 due to lenses that I have for Canon. Biz-Engineer has K1 and from what he said, he doesn't have a reason to change K1 for a camera from other brand. The Canon RP has nothing to do with the above cameras or with replacing our cameras with Canon RP. For me, as I said in the first place, Canon RP it can be the lighter camera that I was waiting for that can be used with my current lenses, not as a replacement for my main camera.

If I would have had K1 and if I would have been happy with it, my first choice would have been KP, not A7III, RP, X-T30. Or, if Pentax had also a cheaper and lighter full frame camera than K1, I would take a close look at it.

The best selling point for Canon RP is the impressive marketing strategy behind it, the small and light body and the price. Look at how well Canon M50 is selling and it's an entry level APS-C camera. The RP will probably sell as good as M50.

By the way, E-M1 Mark II has a better dynamic range than Nikon D5 (if you like DXO statistics; I don't like them). The new Oly will probably also have a better dynamic range than D5. Do you think just for a second that if I will need a sport oriented camera, I will pick EM1-X over D5?

[surfar]

The best selling point for Canon RP is the impressive marketing strategy behind it, the small and light body and the price. Look at how well Canon M50 is selling and it's an entry level APS-C camera. The RP will probably sell as good as M50.

Yes,thats what some of the"commentators"(reviewer$$$$) are saying....Its priced for the people who"want to try FF M/L",these people can use their EF glass and sell the body if it doesnt suit them.Many can point out the negatives but its a CANON and it will be $ucce$$ful.

What will be interesting is the discount price in say 6-12 months and the used prices too.Also the firmware updates that come about.

$$$ony are going to take a hit whatever they come up with.

Nikon have the "rumoured" Z5 in development as well,now if theres any truth in that then it will keep the Nikonites in the brand and bring some back from $$$ony.

Not sure how the L alliance is going to cope,I suppose Sigma may play?

---------- Post added 02-16-19 at 09:42 AM ----------

their prices are too high

The Oly new prices are too high for sure,the used prices are good.Having higher initial price is great(imo) because theres a bigger depreciation gap.The top end glass is great but costs lots,it holds its value better than the bodies.

[RonHendriks1966]

What will be interesting is the discount price in say 6-12 months and the used prices too.Also the firmware updates that come about.

Canon isn't big on firmware updates.

[surfar]

Canon isn't big on firmware updates.

They may not have needed to be in the past,however with $$$ony and Fuji providing reasonably regular updates IF Canon want to compete they will join the"kaizen" game.

Nikon are less so at firmware than Canon,lets see if they adjust as well.

Canon have announced their first firmware update for the R model,its minor though,will be interesting what/if any come soon after.First gen product probably needs a few refinements.

[biz-engineer]

Canon isn't big on firmware updates.

That's because they have a more robust development approach based on clear decisions about what features are in and out of each camera models.
Frequent firmware updates in the camera sector is a sign of shaky software engineering process, or marketing driven updates to keep brand awareness alive.

[bobmaxja]

For most buyers, because Canon is on the Camera, that the only thing they care. Becsuse many Canon buyers for this kind of entry level camera Will be sold at Best Buy, Target, costco and other, they will have no clue what they buy and if it come with a lens or lenses, bingo they will Becoming part on the Canon marketing systems. Stop thinking these peoples will come an advanced use base.

[Mountain Vision]

That's because they have a more robust development approach based on clear decisions about what features are in and out of each camera models.
Frequent firmware updates in the camera sector is a sign of shaky software engineering process, or marketing driven updates to keep brand awareness alive.

Perhaps as cameras compete more with the computational photography of smart phones and see greater amounts of Ai they will see more frequent updates across all brands.

[biz-engineer]

Perhaps as cameras compete more with the computational photography of smart phones and see greater amounts of Ai they will see more frequent updates across all brands.

What does A.I. do for photography? Are there some articles that explain what A.I. does in cameras and the benefit of it?

[Winder]

Again, it is interesting that you talk about how Canon lag behind but you haven't use a Canon since the original 5D.

I think you are misunderstanding something. I have not owned a Canon since I sold the 5D. I have shot with a lot of them. I have shot thousands of frames with a 5DIII and a 1DIV. When I was shooting a significant number of wedding I worked with several photographers who would either shoot as my second or I would shoot as theirs. I would use their Canon gear so that when they went to edit they didn't have to deal with different RAW files and different color profiles.


If you like Canon, shoot with Canon. Canon has great pro-support, great lenses, great marketing, great distribution, but their cameras are average at best.


The EOS-RP is going to be another average camera with dated technology. Hopefully they will release a upper-end model with more advanced technology. The more competition in the market the better.

[gatorguy]

What does A.I. do for photography? Are there some articles that explain what A.I. does in cameras and the benefit of it?

Google Pixel...
Here's all the new stuff Google's Pixel 3 phone cameras can do
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/google-pixel-3-night-sight,review-5931.html