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02-16-2019, 09:11 AM   #1
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Sony Slowly Catching Canon?

Sony now the market leader? (Looks like it!) - Inside Imaging

02-16-2019, 01:05 PM   #2
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Given the increase in MILC sales and Sony's lead in that area, I'm not surprised by this.

It'll be interesting to see how things look in 2 - 3 years, though. Canon has been rather smart with the EOS RP, and has (apparently) already said that in-body image stabilisation will come to its future mirrorless cameras. Once that happens, even with Canon's below-par low ISO sensor performance, it'll be in a much stronger position to compete with Sony (assuming pricing is also competitive) - especially given the new L-series R-mount zoom lenses (including that soon-to-be-released and remarkably compact 70-200 f/2.8) with image stabilisation that will work in tandem with future in-body IS.

I wonder whether Sony will continue to offer the same wide range of bodies, or whether it will narrow that down at some point...
02-16-2019, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
that soon-to-be-released and remarkably compact 70-200 f/2.8)
They have done a neat job getting the size down.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I wonder whether Sony will continue to offer the same wide range of bodies, or whether it will narrow that down at some point...
Over production can bite yr backside,$$$ony has been riding a wave while it was the solitary FF M/L company.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It'll be interesting to see how things look in 2 - 3 years, though.
Yes,CaNik will remain market leaders...$$$ony prodded the big boys and they woke up!

With the announced firmware updates the Z6 surpasses what $$$ony has to offer,its the pick of the new stuff.

Last edited by surfar; 02-16-2019 at 02:29 PM.
02-16-2019, 02:12 PM   #4
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No idea where it will end up. I like the concept of Canon's dual pixel AF, but they have some work to do when it come to AF-C tracking. Canon makes great glass and I like the new lenses for the system.


I think Sony will continue to offer multiple bodies with specialized feature sets. The S series for those who need serious video performance. The R series for people who are after ultimate image quality. The 7III is the generalist. The 9 Series is for those who need speed and AF.


Canon is a huge company with a lot of resources and technology. They file more patents every year than Sony and Nikon combined, but they never seem to be able to bring any cutting edge technology to market. Their sensors are a couple of years behind Sony, but we have reached a point where for 95% of photographers m4/3 is more than enough.

---------- Post added 02-16-19 at 03:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
They have done a neat job getting the size down.



Over production came bite yr backside,$$$ony has been riding a wave while it was the solitary FF M/L company.

Yes,CaNik will remain market leaders...$$$ony prodded the big boys and they woke up!

With the announced firmware updates the Z6 surpasses what $$$ony has to offer,its the pick of the new stuff.
We will have to see how well the Nikon does after the firmware in May and the Sony firmware in April. The competition is going to be excellent. I know Sony isn't cheap, but its cameras are the same price or less than the mirrorless options from Nikon or Canon so I don't really understand the $$$ony remark. The Sony is an excellent value for what you get.


12-bit RAW for video is a nice feature, but I'm willing to bet very few people have the hardware to take advantage of a 12-bit workflow. The card and monitor for a 12-bit workflow would be 2x the price of the camera.

02-16-2019, 02:29 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes,CaNik will remain market leaders...$$$ony prodded the big boys and they woke up!

With the announced firmware updates the Z6 surpasses what $$$ony has to offer,its the pick of the new stuff.
But does the Z6 surpass Sony in the AF tracking department? It's not an issue for me, but the capabilities I see from Sony here look impressive and convincing. For those who need it (and I can see a demonstrable and viable subset of the market), Sony's tracking and eye AF is very attractive already, and always under development (so the head-start continues).

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
No idea where it will end up. I like the concept of Canon's dual pixel AF, but they have some work to do when it come to AF-C tracking. Canon makes great glass and I like the new lenses for the system.
See above re AF-C tracking. I agree. Re glass, certainly the L-series lenses appear to have an enviable and, in many cases, justifiable reputation. The forthcoming 70-200 f/2.8 fascinates me, and I'm looking forward to understanding how it can be so compact. I'd love to see if that compact design results in any optical compromises. As an L-series lens, you'd hope not... but we'll have to wait and see

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think Sony will continue to offer multiple bodies with specialized feature sets. The S series for those who need serious video performance. The R series for people who are after ultimate image quality. The 7III is the generalist. The 9 Series is for those who need speed and AF.
I believe that's one of Sony's strengths right now - offering different versions of current and previous generation bodies that appeal to different core use cases. But I wonder how sustainable that is. I like the approach, though.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Canon is a huge company with a lot of resources and technology. They file more patents every year than Sony and Nikon combined, but they never seem to be able to bring any cutting edge technology to market. Their sensors are a couple of years behind Sony, but we have reached a point where for 95% of photographers m4/3 is more than enough.
The sensor thing is interesting, though, because here - with the dual pixel AF - it seems Canon is onto something. Something that might even be considered cutting edge. Even if the overall performance of the sensors is trailing, dual pixel AF would appear to be very capable in certain use cases. Either way, as you say, it's a huge company with plenty of resources. If it can sustain development and marketing expenditure and make the end products profitable enough, I don't think Canon has too much to worry about. Even so, Sony has done awfully well and is very much "in the game"...
02-16-2019, 02:35 PM   #6
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I don't follow camera equipment sales stats and as a result I don't know much detail in this area. I did have an interesting conversation with someone involved in retail sales of photography equipment though, a short while ago. We were talking about the new mirrorless Canon and Nikon products that appeared on the world marketplace around October 2019 I believe it was, and I said how are those sales going in North America, I assume Canon is # 1, Sony # 2 and Nikon # 3. The response was surprising. Apparently Nikon mirrorless is selling better than Canon and Sony mirrorless is still in front.

I was surprised...that Nikon mirrorless was selling better Canon of the same ilk. As I have no horse in this particular race, it is of academic interest only. However history tells us that companies experience highs and lows in business and although Canon has been at the top of sales for very long...so too were other companies. Who knows if there will be any permanence to this situation, and I really don't know if mirrorless sales in NA are truly Sony...Nikon...Canon. I leave that to those who pore over sales statistics.
02-16-2019, 02:56 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I was surprised...that Nikon mirrorless was selling better Canon
Maybe because Nikon has 2 bodies for sale and Canon has 1....3 boxers in the ring ,2 are on the same team!

02-16-2019, 03:06 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Maybe because Nikon has 2 bodies for sale and Canon has 1....3 boxers in the ring ,2 are on the same team!
Canon R and, per my earlier post, Canon RP (or as I like to call it, the D6MkII mirrorless)? Two bodies?
02-16-2019, 03:09 PM   #9
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The Canon R has no ibis, so that is a dead bird in the shop.
02-16-2019, 03:11 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The Canon R has no ibis, so that is a dead bird in the shop.
Right now, for many folks, I'd agree. Especially since the older Sony bodies - from the A7MkII (that I own) onwards - have five axis in-body IS. But Canon has already said (allegedly) that in-body IS is coming. In the meantime, existing Canon users will buy the R and RP. Once in-body IS comes, that puts Canon on a somewhat more (if not completely) level playing field... along with L-series glass and its reputation (deserved or otherwise)...
02-16-2019, 03:18 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
We will have to see how well the Nikon does after the firmware in May and the Sony firmware in April.
Yes, not all the firmware for Nikon comes in May though.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I believe that's one of Sony's strengths right now - offering different versions of current and previous generation bodies that appeal to different core use cases. But I wonder how sustainable that is. I like the approach, though.
A6xxx and A7 bodies...pump em out!

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
But does the Z6 surpass Sony in the AF tracking department? It's not an issue for me,
We have to wait and see,it wont be an issue for me either..I'll buy the XT30,its got everything i want.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
12-bit RAW for video is a nice feature, but I'm willing to bet very few people have the hardware to take advantage of a 12-bit workflow. The card and monitor for a 12-bit workflow would be 2x the price of the camera.
Yes,agree but its a weapon in the propagandA war! and high end video makers can use the Z6 as a Bcam.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I don't really understand the $$$ony remark.
Ha Ha,I started using the 3 dollar signs in threads with Pentax/$$$ony conversations...now its a habit!
CaNIKony all cost plenty
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The competition is going to be excellent.
02-16-2019, 03:20 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Maybe because Nikon has 2 bodies for sale and Canon has 1....
You could very well be right.
02-16-2019, 03:25 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
we have reached a point where for 95% of photographers m4/3 is more than enough.
Yes,absolutely and the used market has some great bargains...its the kit I take the most.

---------- Post added 02-17-19 at 09:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The Canon R has no ibis, so that is a dead bird in the shop.
Yes,correct and the RP doesnt either....some are calling it the RIP!

However,most of those Canon users dont know IBIS,pixel shift,hiRes,ect ect ect

What they do know is CANON...C...A...N...O...N, it spells BUY!

As an example,the M50 is a basic little M/L with no IBIS,crappy 4K contast detect AF...it sells like C..A...N...O...N!...

The 6Dmk ii mirrorless aka RiP,will sell like...CANON....
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
a dead bird in the shop.
that wont be in the shop because so many people will take it out of the shop.

---------- Post added 02-17-19 at 09:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Two bodies?
Z6 and Z7
02-16-2019, 03:51 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Maybe because Nikon has 2 bodies for sale and Canon has 1....3 boxers in the ring ,2 are on the same team!
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Z6 and Z7
Sure, Z7 and Z6 versus Canon R and Canon RP respectively. Two bodies from each brand My point being, Canon is already in the market with two bodies (not one per your previous post)... IBIS limited, no doubt, but these are first generation with IBIS allegedly to follow... I'm not on the Canon bandwagon, but they're certainly competing, or trying to. Maybe not fully in this generation, but it's a stake in the ground for sure...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-16-2019 at 03:58 PM.
02-16-2019, 04:00 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Canon is already in the market with two bodies (not one per your previous post).
Slow down your speed reading and look at the relevance of my post.

I know ya gotta look at a lot of threads,you deserve a raise!
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