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04-22-2019, 10:22 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But $10,000 for less than a basic kit, might be too high a buy in price for many.
That's what I don't get. I mean, the S1R looks like a very nice camera, and I've no doubt it'll take beautiful photos. But at £3,400 / $4,600 for the body alone, how many do Panasonic need and expect to sell? I'm sure the company has done its homework on the potential market. I guess I'm just surprised that there are enough folks with that kind of money to spend on a camera. That's a lot of dough. Still, I wish them well with it.

04-22-2019, 10:42 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
https://www.leicacamerausa.com/photography/leica-sl/sl-lenses/?

The leica SL glass and the announced Sigma lenses (still not shipping) are part of the native ecosystem for this camera. The Leica glass is expensive... Shudder.!
Hey, even the Panasonic offerings in L mount invoke fear in even the stoutest heart. All is not lost, however! 7artisans has stepped into the void at less than $200!

I noticed that diglloyd took his shots with an adapted Zeiss ZM Distagon 35mm f/1.4. Did Panasonic not provide a selection of lenses?


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04-22-2019, 10:46 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
That's what I don't get. I mean, the S1R looks like a very nice camera, and I've no doubt it'll take beautiful photos. But at £3,400 / $4,600 for the body alone, how many do Panasonic need and expect to sell? I'm sure the company has done its homework on the potential market. I guess I'm just surprised that there are enough folks with that kind of money to spend on a camera. That's a lot of dough. Still, I wish them well with it.
They seem to be pricing it as if it were a competitor to medium format. Slap a red dot on that sucker and the price starts to make sense...

Look at the SL lenses... sheesh.

16-35 f3.5-4.5 is nearly $5500
24-90 f2.8-4 is roughly $4200
90-280 f2.8-4 is about $6400

I like the 2.8-4 variable aperture on these and the extended zoom ranges on the two longer ones but the pricing is insane.
04-22-2019, 11:22 AM   #19
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Yeah, in some ways, it's a pretty cool camera.
But the prices are Leica/medium format.
Even the D850/A7RIII look like pretty affordable options compared to this. They are gambling a lot on a decent sized market for a very expensive mirrorless solution.

04-22-2019, 11:35 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
They seem to be pricing it as if it were a competitor to medium format. Slap a red dot on that sucker and the price starts to make sense...

Look at the SL lenses... sheesh.

16-35 f3.5-4.5 is nearly $5500
24-90 f2.8-4 is roughly $4200
90-280 f2.8-4 is about $6400

I like the 2.8-4 variable aperture on these and the extended zoom ranges on the two longer ones but the pricing is insane.
Right. And, looking at the reviews, the lenses are good... very good indeed... and yet, they still display limitations found with less stratospherically-priced glass. Perhaps less so, but my point is, the difference in optical performance between the D FA*70-200/2.8 and the Leica 90-280 f/2.8-4 isn't huge, it would seem, despite the Leica costing three-and-a-half times as much.

I can't see many Panasonic buyers being willing to pay that much for lenses, even if they've forked out $4,600 on the body. They're more likely, I suspect, to buy the Sigma glass that's coming soon...
04-22-2019, 12:37 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
They seem to be pricing it as if it were a competitor to medium format. Slap a red dot on that sucker and the price starts to make sense...

Look at the SL lenses... sheesh.

16-35 f3.5-4.5 is nearly $5500
24-90 f2.8-4 is roughly $4200
90-280 f2.8-4 is about $6400

I like the 2.8-4 variable aperture on these and the extended zoom ranges on the two longer ones but the pricing is insane.
If they were constant aperture (all of them either f2.8's or f4's), you could say "the price is right" for them being Lieca lenses.
But for even being variable aperture zooms, the price is waaaay to high.
04-22-2019, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I can't see many Panasonic buyers being willing to pay that much for lenses, even if they've forked out $4,600 on the body. They're more likely, I suspect, to buy the Sigma glass that's coming soon...
Hence Sigmas happy position in the L-mount menage a trois. The huge question might be whether Sigma will be free to offer zooms in direct competition with Panasonic and whether Tamron or Tokina will be able to reverse engineer the L-mount protocols.


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04-22-2019, 02:31 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
If they were constant aperture (all of them either f2.8's or f4's), you could say "the price is right" for them being Lieca lenses.
But for even being variable aperture zooms, the price is waaaay to high.
It is my honest and heartfelt opinion that high quality variable aperture is just fine when it is starting at f2.8 on lenses like these. The modern photographer has far too much ISO to spend and I just don't see much reason to fuss over a 1 stop loss from wide to long. It is a good compromise that makes the lenses a little smaller.

I think a lot of people are hung up on constant aperture and f2.8 in particular without really thinking through the need vs. want equation.

04-22-2019, 02:42 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The leica SL glass and the announced Sigma lenses (still not shipping) are part of the native ecosystem for this camera. The Leica glass is expensive... Shudder.!
Interesting Sigma can support FF panasonic but not FF Pentax.

Panasonic's most popular model (on flickr) has 123 average users.

The K-1, K-3 and K-3ii have together (same mount) have 232 users.

It would appear people have high hopes for this camera. Perhaps it's because there are so many Pentax lenses out there, that Pentax can buy older Pentax glass if they want cheaper. They don't have to go third party. This looks to me like a huge gamble. The 6 fps while tracking is slower than a D850, the value of their implementation of pixel shift is unknown but dubious given that they are posting images with artifacts as examples.
04-22-2019, 03:10 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Interesting Sigma can support FF panasonic but not FF Pentax.
Clearly each of the Leica, Panasonic and Sigma triumvirate expects symbiosis and commercial value in the partnership. I suspect Sigma will be the supplier of lower (not low, but lower) cost lenses for Panasonic and Leica's SL. That won't take much, if anything, away from Leica's own premium lens sales, but it will enable Panasonic to grow its new full frame platform without having to single-handedly develop a slew of essential glass in the early stages (though it might be inconvenient for them as their in-house lens range fills out). Meanwhile, Sigma gets access to an established mount that it hopes will grow with Panasonic's involvement. I'll be interested to see how the partnership develops and who benefits most from it, as I doubt it can be equally beneficial to all three in the long run. Who knows... maybe there's a merger expected eventually?
04-22-2019, 06:27 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Interesting Sigma can support FF panasonic but not FF Pentax.
Interesting, but not surprising. The panny lenses are full fly-by-wire. Supporting multiple brands on a single, pluggable platform for such designs has so much more potential ROI than having to fiddle with tedious stuff like scrupulous adherence to high mechanical precision to make all but the simplest K-mount work.

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04-22-2019, 07:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveinSLC Quote
Guess I'd question the accuracy of the initial statement in that blog. I certainly don't find pixel-shift "useless for field shooting". I've got plenty of great landscapes taken with pixel shift. You just need to understand that it doesn't work with things moving in the frame. But there are plenty of shooting scenarios that don't involve that.
Yep, bottom line is it’s best for static scenes, be that studio or still landscapes.

Any areas with motion just revert to a single frame to avoid motion artefacts, so the motion parts aren’t ‘pixel shifted’ anyway.

In some scenes it’s phenomenal and at other times it’s a bit of a sales gimmick. Overall I’d say better than the simulated anti aliasing filter, which does work but most won’t ever use.
04-23-2019, 02:36 AM   #28
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Pixel shift works fine on Pentax cameras. I can’t imagine it works better on Panasonics. The issue is using software that supports motion correction, like Raw Therapee. But honestly, if there’s a lot of movement in a scene it doesn’t add much, even if you can easily avoid artifacts.
04-23-2019, 03:38 AM   #29
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I agree with Rondec above. This guy states he has tons of ruined PS images and makes big claims but I bet you he had never used RawTherapee in his life.
04-23-2019, 05:44 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
(...jumping fish? Yes, jumping fish would be awesome...)
"Hey Google, add a jumping marlin to my image."

I wouldn't even be surprised if it worked
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