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06-02-2019, 07:11 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Future of APS-C

It looks like the Canon 7D line is dead as more rumors are circulating that Canon has no plans to replace the mark 2. It seem like Fuji is the only company really taking ownership of the APS-C market. I know Canon is still selling 10 APS-C cameras to every one Fuji, but Canon is definitely pulling back and putting its money into the EOS-R system. Sony has implied that we will see an APS-C version of the A9 or at least a high-end APS-C body, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

06-02-2019, 08:03 AM - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It looks like the Canon 7D line is dead as more rumors are circulating that Canon has no plans to replace the mark 2. It seem like Fuji is the only company really taking ownership of the APS-C market. I know Canon is still selling 10 APS-C cameras to every one Fuji, but Canon is definitely pulling back and putting its money into the EOS-R system. Sony has implied that we will see an APS-C version of the A9 or at least a high-end APS-C body, but I don't know if that will ever happen.
APS-C is , IMHO, on itís way out the door. Sensors have gotten cheap enough that 35mm sized ones can go into budget cameras. Cell phones are getting close to being good enough that they are able to fulfill the needs of more and more consumers, which is eating into more of the traditional camera markets.
The one truism is that there is no replacement for real estate, and cell phones will (most likely) never be able to carry a fairly large sensor. Iím sure it could be done, but the form factor would be very camera like, with none of the size advantages that give cell phones their portability.
I expect that not only is Canon putting itís resources into the RF mount, but that they are pulling away from the EF mount entirely. I predict that the 7D is merely the first casualty, and we are going to see less and less support for the EF mount, until in a very short period of time, the mount is off the market entirely. I fully expect the EF line to be gone within the next few years, with support for it taken away shortly thereafter.
06-02-2019, 08:14 AM - 3 Likes   #3
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I dont want a full frame and I still see Nikon and Pentax do APSC. Pentax and Nikon have not annonced anything like that. Pure speculation from you.
06-02-2019, 09:33 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
APS-C is , IMHO, on itís way out the door. Sensors have gotten cheap enough that 35mm sized ones can go into budget cameras.
Unfortunately those "budget" $1000-2000 FF cameras are rarely matched up with inexpensive, small lenses. I just sent out a link to 500 shots of my kids' soccer team to all the parents. Almost every photo taken with a K-3ii and a 55-300 PLM that cost a bit over $1000 combined, new. In Pentax-world the FF equivalent of that would be a K-1ii with a 150-450 that costs $3700 and weighs more than twice as much.

I hope you're wrong. I'm not looking forward to a Full Frame-only world.

06-02-2019, 10:10 AM - 1 Like   #5
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I don't think high resolution APS-C cameras are going to disappear any time soon, as they have advantages over full frame in certain use cases. But I also don't think there'll be the same proliferation of models we've seen previously. As I've said before, there's really no need for any manufacturer to have more than a couple of options - one low-to-mid-range, one high end - for any format it supports. Canon has traditionally offered a ridiculous number of APS-C cameras, so it's well overdue for some pruning and consolidation in the range, IMHO...
06-02-2019, 10:15 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Me thinks the days of the top end APS-C camera are numbered. The demise of the Canon EOS 7D might be the start of a trend. On the other hand, entry and mid level APS-C bodies should be around for a while. All indications are that Canon will be replacing the EOS 80D. It even might pack some the features from the EOS 7D.

What the future holds for the somewhat overdue K3 III is another question. Ricoh are probably busy reading the tea leaves before committing to it.
06-02-2019, 10:26 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It looks like the Canon 7D line is dead as more rumors are circulating that Canon has no plans to replace the mark 2.
As you noted, Canon makes most of its consumer camera money in the Rebel line of crop-sensor bodies. I don't see that changing anytime soon. The same is true for Nikon. Fuji makes good gear, but is a niche player in the APS-C space.


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06-02-2019, 11:01 AM   #8
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Over the last month, I've been shooting with another fellow who has a new K70. He bumped up to the K70 from his smartphone for better image quality. He has had it all of 2 months now, and I've been very impressed with his results. I've lent him (well selling) my 8-16 and 18-35, and his Milky Way images have been absolutely stunning - and that is with post processing on a smartphone, as he is still looking around for a laptop.

Yes, I do think that there is a continuing market for ASP-C sized sensors - especially with normal to telephoto, where the crop factor is a positive feature. The Accelerator chip does do wonders with the K70 and KP over the K3 and K5 sets of bodies. I would also expect that the K3II replacement will also show a reasonable improvement.

Considering the overall declining photography market - introducing a new mirrorless mount, one that is not backwards compatible with legacy dSLR designs, is a substantial risk, especially with respect to new lenses. Both Sony and Fuji are totally committed (but had little to loose) - however they have a substantially smaller legacy market to worry about supporting. Designing new short flange distance lenses that cannot be adapted to their current dSLR designs is a very large risk - especially with their declining sales and cash flows to sustain their new R&D efforts.

06-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As you noted, Canon makes most of its consumer camera money in the Rebel line of crop-sensor bodies. I don't see that changing anytime soon. The same is true for Nikon. Fuji makes good gear, but is a niche player in the APS-C space.


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Yes, but Fuji is the only player that is expanding in this space. Canon, Nikon, & even Sony have been shrinking in the APS-C market. Sony says they have plans to expand their APS-C offering now that the FF line is mostly filled out, but we will see. Sensor costs fallen a long way over the last 10 years and FF production is way, way up.
06-02-2019, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Unfortunately those "budget" $1000-2000 FF cameras are rarely matched up with inexpensive, small lenses. I just sent out a link to 500 shots of my kids' soccer team to all the parents. Almost every photo taken with a K-3ii and a 55-300 PLM that cost a bit over $1000 combined, new. In Pentax-world the FF equivalent of that would be a K-1ii with a 150-450 that costs $3700 and weighs more than twice as much.

I hope you're wrong. I'm not looking forward to a Full Frame-only world.
Its pure speculation on the Op's part nothing more. I believe I've read a rumor that Pentax will be bringing a new Hi end APS-C camera soon.
06-02-2019, 12:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes, but Fuji is the only player that is expanding in this space.
I think Fuji has too many APS-C cameras at different price points. Given its specialisation in the APS-C space, it could realistically narrow the choice down to three models - one low end, one mid, and a flagship.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Canon, Nikon, & even Sony have been shrinking in the APS-C market. Sony says they have plans to expand their APS-C offering now that the FF line is mostly filled out, but we will see. Sensor costs fallen a long way over the last 10 years and FF production is way, way up.
The thing is, it's not just about cost.

Full frame cameras a reducing in size, but there's still typically a size and weight advantage to an APS-C camera and lenses designed for that format, whether DSLR or mirrorless. The K-1 / K-1II is compact for a full frame DSLR, but still wider, taller, deeper, heavier and more expensive than the old K-3II or current KP. Same with the Sony A7 MkIII vs A6400 - the size difference isn't huge, but it's there, and the weight difference is definitely notable. Fit these full frame and APS-C cameras with lenses designed for their respective formats, and the size / weight advantage can be even more pronounced.

I love my full frame gear, it has definite advantages in certain use cases, I use it frequently, and I completely understand other folks' desire to use that format - or, at least, to try it. But I'm far more likely to pick up my K-3 and Sigma 17-50/2.8 for a full day's shooting. I suspect I'm far from alone in that preference...
06-02-2019, 01:10 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Unfortunately those "budget" $1000-2000 FF cameras are rarely matched up with inexpensive, small lenses. I just sent out a link to 500 shots of my kids' soccer team to all the parents. Almost every photo taken with a K-3ii and a 55-300 PLM that cost a bit over $1000 combined, new. In Pentax-world the FF equivalent of that would be a K-1ii with a 150-450 that costs $3700 and weighs more than twice as much.

I hope you're wrong. I'm not looking forward to a Full Frame-only world.
I think Pentax is the only brand that doesn't have a full range of budget, or close to it, full frame glass.
The onslaught of cell phones is pushing camera gear up market. As cell phone cameras improve, real cameras and accessories are going to get pricier.
06-02-2019, 01:43 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I think Pentax is the only brand that doesn't have a full range of budget, or close to it, full frame glass.
The onslaught of cell phones is pushing camera gear up market. As cell phone cameras improve, real cameras and accessories are going to get pricier.
I just Googled Canon telephoto lenses. Tamron makes a 100-400 that's FF compatible for $600, stabilized, of course in-lens focus motors, and it's weather sealed. Sigma makes a comparable lens. There are Nikon versions of each. Nothing remotely like that for Pentax.
06-02-2019, 01:53 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I just Googled Canon telephoto lenses. Tamron makes a 100-400 that's FF compatible for $600, stabilized, of course in-lens focus motors, and it's weather sealed. Sigma makes a comparable lens. There are Nikon versions of each. Nothing remotely like that for Pentax.
I don't think we're going to see them any time soon, either. For the foreseeable future, folks who choose Pentax will (or certainly should) do so based on currently-available OEM lenses and/or legacy glass. There's plenty of choice - great lenses to suit most use cases. But those who - for some reason - need want the widest range of OEM and third party glass at all price points simply shouldn't choose a niche brand. They should go with Nikon, Canon or possibly Sony - or whatever other brand suits their preferences and gear desires. What they shouldn't do is jump into a brand - any brand - then gripe about lens choices. That's on them, not the brand

Note - I'm not aiming that observation at you... I just thought it was worth raising for the folks who lament the Pentax lens range...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-02-2019 at 02:03 PM.
06-02-2019, 01:55 PM - 1 Like   #15
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I don't know much about the other brands, so no comment on their APS-C futures.

At the moment, my Pentax K-3 II APS-C camera hits the sweet spot for me, nicely balancing price, bulk, ergonomics, and performance. With a couple of quality lenses, I can cover 20-135mm with a relatively compact and weather-resistant kit that fits in a small bag. The image files don't strain my computer, and I can get fairly large prints that look great on the wall.

I can't predict where the APS-C format will head, but for now, I'm happy shooting with this format.



- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 06-02-2019 at 02:02 PM.
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