[normhead]

Says who?

Understanding IBIS in the Nikon Mirrorless Cameras

The Nikon says 90 lenses will use AF with their lenses. I bet there's 90 lenses if not more that use AF and Pentax IBIS. There goes that Nikon "you get more lens choice" advantage.

I listed IBIS, Pixel Shift and Astro-tracer... nice cherry pick. Achieving one of three doesn't change the point. There are still reasons for choosing Pentax over the others. Things the others don't have at all. Not to mention that the EVF on the Z mount eliminates 35% to 40% of the population including myself. SO totally a non-starter in this corner, and many corners.

[Dan Rentea]

There are still reasons for choosing Pentax over the others.

Of course there are: build quality, lower price for lenses also, features that a landscape photographer will have a hard time to ignore, etc.

[Rondec]

I hope we are not re-litigating the Z6 and Z7. To me they are sort of a haphazard collection of good and bad things. Fast frame rates with mid level EVFs, decent image quality (but not much different from Nikon's SLRs). Some of the oddest choices have to do with the selection of XQD (single) card and middling auto focus that doesn't achieve the level of that found in the D850.

[surfar]

Z7

D850.

XQD

mid level EVFs

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Astro-tracer... I used it once and that's it. I didn't had the curiosity to look on internet for images taken with astro-tracer activated but I will try and find some here, on this forum.

There is a real narrow band that the astro photographers would use the astro tracer. For wide angle work you have the problem at the outer most areas of the image will show star trails as the sensor moves and tracks the earths rotation behind the lens, many preferer that the lens and camera body move to eliminate this. There is also how they capture their final image which can entail several exposures that one would have to reposition the framing of camera when using astro tracking. With a tracking mount there is no need to reposition the framing in-between frames this will help to limit problems also with stacking wide angle captures.

With deep sky shooting having the entire rig also track can really elevate a lot of the hassle of recomposing the shot in-between exposures that often entail several hours of exposure time with 20-100 stills. For deep sky tracking photographers usually have their locations planned out in advance and have easy access to as they often use that location for several nights and don't need a compact and portable systems to do so. Many will have installed conc, pillars that they come back to setup on and are happy to let other use when the are not. For these guys $1600 can buy you a very good tracking system and with a little more $$ you can set them up for guided work ( laptop and guiding camera).

If you are interested in a more cheaper and light weight $400-600 can get you setup and many can be setup for guided work. One of the additional benefits of these is what is known as half time tracking this is where you can track at half the speed to place the rotation blur half in the background and half in the stars which is a nice workaround if you are placing any landscape within a single frame. One of the reasons why I picked of a tracking mount was for time-lapse video that evolves panning, it just so happened that it can also track and be converted to a guided mount.

If you are willing to work outside of these constrains then IBS tracking can work for you.

[Rondec]

Nikon Z7 Hands-On Review for Photographers - YouTube

Thanks for more You Tube propaganda. Can you explain to me why they haven't been selling as well as Nikon wants (needs)? And why there has already been a 200 dollar price cut on the Z6 and 600 dollar one on the Z7?

At the very least, we can say that they haven't taken the market by storm, even if there are video bloggers who are drooling all over their loaned copies of them.

[Dan Rentea]

Thanks for more You Tube propaganda. Can you explain to me why they haven't been selling as well as Nikon wants (needs)? And why there has already been a 200 dollar price cut on the Z6 and 600 dollar one on the Z7?

It's simple, the D850 is better than Z7.

[Rondec]

It's simple, the D850 is better than Z7.

I agree. It's just that surfar is our resident MILC proponent and he is always posting these sorts of videos.

The D850 is the swiss army knife of cameras. One that really could handle just about any need from landscape to portraits to weddings. Frame rate might be just a hair slow for what a lot of sports shooters want, but truthfully, it is only a couple of frames per second slower than sports cameras that are a generation old. I just think the Z6 and Z7 have too many compromises without enough benefits for most Nikon SLR shooters to switch.

You've said elsewhere that you think the biggest reason that people will switch to MILCs is because of special lenses that are available for them that aren't for SLRs and I tend to agree. But to this point, Nikon hasn't created any lenses that would really draw people in. I guess there is a 58mm f.95 lens coming, otherwise most of the lenses look pretty similar to offerings that are available for F mount -- just quite a bit more expensive.

[surfar]

Can you explain to me why they haven't been selling as well as Nikon wants (needs)?

Well Blind Freddy knows that,you havent noticed that theres a market adjustment?BTW,are you privy to what Nikon wants and needs?

propaganda.

You opinion,mine is its a fairly concise report of the Z7 that Nikon have improved with their ongoing R&D,backed by opinions of users that are independent of the reviewers.

why there has already been a 200 dollar price cut on the Z6 and 600 dollar one on the Z7?

You've never noticed that new camera releases cater for the early adopter types,the camera companies all seem to reduce their prices as the models age(its last years tech).

we can say that they haven't taken the market by storm,

Did $ony when they released their first gen FF mirrorless?

even if there are video bloggers who are drooling all over their loaned copies of them.

I missed the drool,what moment was that? As far as loaned copies go,most B&M stores have display/demonstrator models.Customers get to hold them,press the shutter,look at the menu and get a tactile feel for what they may buy.These 2 are counter sales staff that just happen to do a very good job of describing the product.

[Dan Rentea]

The D850 is the swiss army knife of cameras. One that really could handle just about any need from landscape to portraits to weddings. Frame rate might be just a hair slow for what a lot of sports shooters want, but truthfully, it is only a couple of frames per second slower than sports cameras that are a generation old. I just think the Z6 and Z7 have too many compromises without enough benefits for most Nikon SLR shooters to switch.

They are not bad (Z6 and Z7), but at the moment Nikon has better cameras. Let's hope that Nikon will release next year other mirrorless cameras that will surpass their current DSLRs in terms of performance. Same goes for Canon.

You've said elsewhere that you think the biggest reason that people will switch to MILCs is because of special lenses that are available for them that aren't for SLRs and I tend to agree.

I don't know about others, but the RF lenses are the biggest reason for me to shoot as much as I can with mirrorless cameras so that my eyes can get used to EVFs. The 28-70mm f2L and the 50mm f1.2L are simply senzational. The new 85mm f1.2L also seems to be excelent. I can't wait to put my hands on it once it will start shipping. With the upcoming RF 15-35mm f2.8L lens and with this new RF 85mm f1.2L I really don't need anything else for corporate events and portraits. For travel I can use the f4 lenses that work really well with adapter.

But to this point, Nikon hasn't created any lenses that would really draw people in. I guess there is a 58mm f.95 lens coming, otherwise most of the lenses look pretty similar to offerings that are available for F mount -- just quite a bit more expensive.

It was a little strange to see Nikon release a Z7 with one card slot and price it close to D850 knowing also that D850 is a better performer. And yes, when comes to lenses they didn't released anything excited yet. Canon on the other hand did also a strange thing. They released consumer bodies (RP and R) which are nice cameras, but they didn't released affordable lenses so that buyers can use them on the new bodies. I think that they are concentrating on L lenses and I'm glad, but let's see how long it will take them to release 1-2 Pro bodies with 2 card slots, IBIS and some other features mentioned in press conferences.

[surfar]

It was a little strange to see Nikon release a Z7 with one card slot

Both the Z6/7 are the middle ground.Theres a rival to Canon RP in the works and a higher end twin slot coming.The high end Canon is under development as well,rumoured to have twin slots.

Many havent realised that the connectivity that the CaNik M/L offer is outstanding,instant transfer to the laptop/tablet/phn.The slot in camera is the back up.

After a few disappointing interactions with Ricoh customer support recently, I began researching this issue. (By the way, my K-1 had to go to Precision recently, and it appears Ricoh is taking care of that problem, and have been very responsive.) First thing I decided was that if I were going to buy a non-Pentax, the best candidate was the Nikon D850. But my criteria included value as well as features and capability. So I did a lot more research on that camera, basically in comparison to the K-1 I've already got. I decided that the K-1 (let alone the mk II version) was the better camera in terms of features and engineering. I think Pentax has had difficulties due to contractors supplying less-than-first-quality parts and some deficiencies in "offshore" (relative to Japan) assembly/manufacturing.

I've commented elsewhere on this site about what I call "the marketing tax" - the extra cost of manufactured products that go to fund advertising, after-sale support, etc. The things that Pentax isn't good at are the things that cost a lot of money. As long as they're willing to support products under warranty, I reckon they've done what they promised, under budget. And I've read a lot of stuff that suggests that Nikon and Canon haven't much on Pentax in the customer support department; they get their share of complaints from disappointed users, as well.

I think Pentax ought to take care of well-documented defects in manufacture when certain parts have a high failure rate, regardless of the free remedy period offered in their "limited warranty", since the defect was hidden but present during the warranty period. My personal opinion, that. They tell me they take care of such things on a "case by case basis". At least they're willing to consider it.

Long and short of it is that it costs more than the purchase price because you have to factor in the need to pay for repairs. But the total costs over time are still going to be less than what you'd pay for other brands, and you won't get as good an array of functions or ergonomic design, because you're not paying the marketing tax that Nikon and Canon have to tack on to the price of the products.

But I mainly like Pentax for the lenses. Their lenses are at least as good as anyone else's and they're a lot less expensive. There isn't the same range of options, but what they've got more than covers all the functionality I could want - I can cover every focal length between 11mm and 560mm with only a few lenses.

And here's another factor, though it doesn't really figure prominently in the comparison under review. Lots of products are sold at a loss or break-even pricing, because the companies make their money on consumables. E.g., printers - the profit's in the cables, paper, ink/toner, etc., not the printer. Pentax doesn't sell a lot of that kind of stuff - a few filters, batteries, straps, etc., nowhere near the range of "extras" you will be encouraged to buy from the others, and thus resulting in even slimmer profit margins. And as I already observed, equivalent lenses from Pentax generally cost less than those of Nikon or Canon.

I'm frankly suprised that Pentax does as well as it does, given what it's got to work with, particularly with their approach to engineering. Their engineers are free to come up with interesting stuff, e.g., "astrotracer", and they're smart enough to give their staff the freedom to think.

I do think it's worthwhile to revisit this issue from time to time, but I'm sticking with Pentax. I would point out, in fairness, that I'm not interested in cameras with less-than-full-frame sensors, a lack of an optical viewfinder, fixed-lens or "mirrorless" non-reflex cameras.

[Rondec]

Both the Z6/7 are the middle ground.Theres a rival to Canon RP in the works and a higher end twin slot coming.The high end Canon is under development as well,rumoured to have twin slots.

Many havent realised that the connectivity that the CaNik M/L offer is outstanding,instant transfer to the laptop/tablet/phn.The slot in camera is the back up.

Really. So a wedding photographer is going to keep a tablet in a back pack for backup? And these RAW files are going to "instantaneously" transfer to that tablet, actually make a memory card completely unnecessary? From what I can tell, the RAW files from the Z7 are 85-ish megabytes. It is hard for me to imagine a 10 shot burst of those going instantly to anything that isn't wired to the camera.

But I guess keep those rose colored MILC specs on for now...

[bdery]

Pentax .... [crickets chirping] ... still "working" on something.

To be fair, Ricoh did release the Gr III which has been at or near the top of the bestselling lists in many countries.

[beholder3]

Both the Z6/7 are the middle ground.

That is the problem with Nikon. And the others as well.

You - as one consumer and potential buyer - have to call their current 3100 EUR already discounted street price product (camera with cheapest native and slow kit lens) "middle ground".

No wonder Nikon's sales are nose diving and they had to shave 1,000 EUR off the initial price 4 months ago (I guess that is a record).

Nikon desperately needs product which can convince more than a handful rich people.

Boy. 3100 EUR. Just middle ground.