[surfar]

the price has dropped a lot in a year and a half.

Around 10%....but down to 2500ish now that the 4th gen is announced.Have to feel sorry for recent buyers who forked out over 3K.

[Dan Rentea]

Well things are about to multiply,theres announcements coming.One thing that's pretty sure is replacement of A6500(XT3 competitor).The others(rumours are 2 bodies) I don't have any idea at this stage.

Guessing, could be A7Siii?And updated fixed lens 1inch sensor superzoom?

$onys advantage is they use same/similar bodies to produce a lot of their variants and development is paid for so churn the old stuff off the production line,all those cheaper bodies don't work without a lens and theres over 50 natives and lots of 3rd parties(having a party on the $ony bandwagon).Someone entering FF m/l has a lot of choice with price and features from $sony.

I don't mind having lots of choices. But I don't want to see manufacturers releasing new cameras every year, especially with the possibilities of mirrorless in terms of updates. I hope Canon and the others won't follow this route and do the smart thing: release a new model of a camera after 3-4 years and in these 3-4 years they can add some nice updates to the existing models (not like the updates that we find in DSLRs which are insignificant).

[Rondec]

I don't mind having lots of choices. But I don't want to see manufacturers releasing new cameras every year, especially with the possibilities of mirrorless in terms of updates. I hope Canon and the others won't follow this route and do the smart thing: release a new model of a camera after 3-4 years and in these 3-4 years they can add some nice updates to the existing models (not like the updates that we find in DSLRs which are insignificant).

I have a feeling that a lot of this is driven by the sensor department. I am not sure how many different sensors Sony is making but it is a lot (12, 20, 24, 36, 42, 61 just for full frame) but when they release a new one, the camera side of things is charged with building a new camera around that sensor.

Canon on the other hand has a tendency to put the same sensor in multiple different bodies and just change the feature sets a little bit. I very much doubt that Canon is going this path at all. Nikon probably will have a couple more MILCs to release in the next year and then will focus more on lenses for the Z mount and shift back to an upper end F mount camera or two.

[Winder]

I have a feeling that a lot of this is driven by the sensor department. I am not sure how many different sensors Sony is making but it is a lot (12, 20, 24, 36, 42, 61 just for full frame) but when they release a new one, the camera side of things is charged with building a new camera around that sensor.

Canon on the other hand has a tendency to put the same sensor in multiple different bodies and just change the feature sets a little bit. I very much doubt that Canon is going this path at all. Nikon probably will have a couple more MILCs to release in the next year and then will focus more on lenses for the Z mount and shift back to an upper end F mount camera or two.

Sony, Canon, & Panasonic are all heavily invested in video in some way. Sony, Panasonic, & Samsung are also all invested in display panels. If they want people to buy the new 8K displays, then they need people making 8K content so you have to drive both sides of the business.


The 61MP sensor that everyone is getting worked up over has a twin that nobody is talking about. The push for speed and processing power is really what we are seeing and the resolution is part of that. Sony has the IMX521CQR which is also a 61MP sensor except that its a quad Bayer array. Sony has published the specs for a full-frame Quad Bayer and five other sensors - DIY Photography This will net a 15.xMP FF sensor that will yield much improved DR and probably color accuracy with very little noise at higher ISO. There is a lot more processing needed to bin the pixels like this and more memory on sensor (I assume a stacked sensor). This is going to take a very powerful processor. The 61MP sensor in the A7rIV is basically a bi-product of where Sony is going. Basically, the quad Bayer sensor is taking 4 images with every press of the shutter button and combining them to produce a single 15MP image. 10FPs means the camera has to process 40fps. It's possible that this quad-Bayer sensor shows up in the A7sIII or a new line of Sony E-mount cameras.


Eventually Sony will launch a 132MP FF sensor and the internet will proceed to stroke-out, but that will allow them to capture 8K or 33MPs stills with 4 pixel binning for some pretty amazing DR and very low noise.


It might surprise some of the experts on this board, but Sony does know what they are doing when it comes to sensor production. The may suck at designing menus and ergonomics, but they are currently the industry leaders in sensor technology and there is a reason for that.


People need to stop worrying about how well the A7rIV is going to sell. The A7rIV is a very small piece of the puzzle and a stepping stone on the development path. People seem to think the A7rIV is the end game for Sony and that's pretty naive.

[Rondec]

Sony, Canon, & Panasonic are all heavily invested in video in some way. Sony, Panasonic, & Samsung are also all invested in display panels. If they want people to buy the new 8K displays, then they need people making 8K content so you have to drive both sides of the business.


The 61MP sensor that everyone is getting worked up over has a twin that nobody is talking about. The push for speed and processing power is really what we are seeing and the resolution is part of that. Sony has the IMX521CQR which is also a 61MP sensor except that its a quad Bayer array. Sony has published the specs for a full-frame Quad Bayer and five other sensors - DIY Photography This will net a 15.xMP FF sensor that will yield much improved DR and probably color accuracy with very little noise at higher ISO. There is a lot more processing needed to bin the pixels like this and more memory on sensor (I assume a stacked sensor). This is going to take a very powerful processor. The 61MP sensor in the A7rIV is basically a bi-product of where Sony is going. Basically, the quad Bayer sensor is taking 4 images with every press of the shutter button and combining them to produce a single 15MP image. 10FPs means the camera has to process 40fps. It's possible that this quad-Bayer sensor shows up in the A7sIII or a new line of Sony E-mount cameras.


Eventually Sony will launch a 132MP FF sensor and the internet will proceed to stroke-out, but that will allow them to capture 8K or 33MPs stills with 4 pixel binning for some pretty amazing DR and very low noise.


It might surprise some of the experts on this board, but Sony does know what they are doing when it comes to sensor production. The may suck at designing menus and ergonomics, but they are currently the industry leaders in sensor technology and there is a reason for that.


People need to stop worrying about how well the A7rIV is going to sell. The A7rIV is a very small piece of the puzzle and a stepping stone on the development path. People seem to think the A7rIV is the end game for Sony and that's pretty naive.

I don't think there is anyone who thinks Sony is clueless. We just aren't interested in a lot of the things they are focused on.

I would like to see Pentax choose their next full frame sensor and have it be a step above the current 36 megapixel sensor they currently use. Personally I'm not terribly interested in video which probably explains my ambivalence to all of Sony's dramatic developments on the sensor side of things.

[surfar]

I would like to see Pentax choose their next full frame sensor and have it be a step above the current 36 megapixel sensor they currently use.

42 mp BSI from the A7r3 is my guess,in tandem with the accelerator unit should make a dslr to rival or surpass Canik.Of course a new processor as well.

---------- Post added 08-12-19 at 07:28 AM ----------

Sony, Canon, & Panasonic are all heavily invested in video in some way. Sony, Panasonic, & Samsung are also all invested in display panels. If they want people to buy the new 8K displays, then they need people making 8K content so you have to drive both sides of the business.

Throw Sharp into the mix as well.2020 Tokyo Olympics is broadcast in 8K and the Sharp 8K movie cam(it may have stills capability) is imminent.

[Winder]

I don't think there is anyone who thinks Sony is clueless. We just aren't interested in a lot of the things they are focused on.

I would like to see Pentax choose their next full frame sensor and have it be a step above the current 36 megapixel sensor they currently use. Personally I'm not terribly interested in video which probably explains my ambivalence to all of Sony's dramatic developments on the sensor side of things.

In the long run the demands that video place on the imaging pipeline will help produce some significant improvements in still photography.

[RonHendriks1966]

Throw Sharp into the mix as well.2020 Tokyo Olympics is broadcast in 8K and the Sharp 8K movie cam(it may have stills capability) is imminent.

I read somewere that broadcasting in 8K maybe wasn't going to happen except for some show cases. To soon, not everything ready next year.

[surfar]

I read somewere that broadcasting in 8K maybe wasn't going to happen

When did you read THAT?

Maybe you should tell that author to check out BS8K,the channel of NHK Japan who started broadcasting December 1st,2018.

[neokind]

We just aren't interested in a lot of the things they are focused on.

Who is the ‘we?’ Seems more accurate or perhaps appropriate to say ‘I’ or ‘I am among those who.’ But this broad ‘we’ isn’t really descriptive.

[surfar]

Who is the ‘we?

Rondec, his cat and dog(if you can read between the lines!).

[clackers]

I saw the figures. They have a growing share of a shrinking market, and year over year numbers are down for them like both Canon and Nikon. I’m just confused about how you interpret from that chart, which is vague in that it doesn’t give sales figures, how well a particular model performed. We have no idea.

They *are* sales figures, couldn't be clearer, Neokind. You will not be able to get a model by model breakdown because that information is so privileged even shareholders don't get to see it.

I'm not sure you understand how bad the situation is for Sony and the rest of the industry. Best if you can read those sales figures in conjunction with these ones as well:

Sony downward spiral continues, -20% camera customers, -11% $ sales - PentaxForums.com

mirrorless sales down -14.8% in units and -19.1% in value - PentaxForums.com

Mirrorless and DSLR dinosaur collapse cont'd: Sony Q4 camera profits dropped by -73% - PentaxForums.com

CIPA camera shipments figures for June 2019 - trends - PentaxForums.com

It makes for pretty ugly reading. We're at a point now where if DSLR sales drop, mirrorless sales drop too, so the companies have to think real hard. Why should a board approve expenditure to acquire share in a shrinking market of ILCs? If it can't get 8 percent returns developing new cameras and lenses why wouldn't it invest instead into medical or industrial imaging, or park its money in investment funds so it at least doesn't make a loss?

[MarkJerling]

Rondec, his cat and dog(if you can read between the lines!).

And me.

Oh, and I've checked with our dog, the two cats, the two budgies, the gurami, the two siamese algae eaters, the mollies and the catfish, so all up there's at least 19 of us!

PS: Don't mention the All Blacks.

[surfar]

Who?

[Rondec]

Who is the ‘we?’ Seems more accurate or perhaps appropriate to say ‘I’ or ‘I am among those who.’ But this broad ‘we’ isn’t really descriptive.

My wife and I. I certainly can't speak for you or anyone else, but both of us shoot with Pentax (she professionally, I not so much).

(and Mark Jerling as he says)....