Sony A7r4 announced. 61mp.

Lev · 08-08-2019, 07:30 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zooland

The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor.

Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser

Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please

**Rondec** · 08-08-2019, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Lev

Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please

It won't.

Zooland · 08-08-2019, 07:48 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

I don't' make much use of the 36 MP of my K-1, to the point if I got the same dynamic range out of an APS-c body, I'd sell it. For me, the MP race is over. I suspect for a lot of others as well. After all, the high MP has to provide some tangible benefit to you. Well some people buy it just because it's bigger and for some bigger is always better, but I doubt a lot of the market is like that.

Will you really sell your K-1?

normhead · 08-08-2019, 09:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zooland

Will you really sell your K-1?

Not as long as I lose or any DR at 100 ISO. But if they can come up with an APS-c as good for sunsets and sunrises....

There's been all kinds , wedding togs. wild life togs, happy with 24 or even 20 MP, there are a lot of uses where people have gone back to lower MPS and been totally happy.

**Larrymc** · 08-08-2019, 10:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Lev

Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please

It should resolve it on paper.

**Serkevan** · 08-08-2019, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Zooland

The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor.

Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser

The Nokia Pureview some years ago had 48 MP already and the pictures were nothing too spectacular.

scratchpaddy · 08-08-2019, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

The people who are most likely to buy this sort of camera are current Sony users, not people who just purchased a Z6 or EOS R.

True, but Sony also wants to catch the attention of anyone who may be about to buy into a new Canon or Nikon system. They're grabbing attention with big MP numbers, something easy to compare and claim superiority on.

I agree that there isn't really anything new in the market that's satisfying any needs that weren't already satisfied. It's a little more of this, a little better at that. It's been more than five years since I bought my current camera, and there's nothing offering enough of an improvement in the things I care about to justify the cost of an upgrade right now.

I'm still glad to see more companies join the FF mirrorless market. They all bring their own unique approach to the category.

Originally posted by normhead

I don't' make much use of the 36 MP of my K-1, to the point if I got the same dynamic range out of an APS-c body, I'd sell it. For me, the MP race is over. I suspect for a lot of others as well. After all, the high MP has to provide some tangible benefit to you. Well some people buy it just because it's bigger and for some bigger is always better, but I doubt a lot of the market is like that.

I feel the same way. Whatever my next camera is, I'd prefer something in the ~20 megapixel neighborhood. That's already overkill for most shots.

Originally posted by Zooland

The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor.

Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser

Assuming it's a 1/1.7" sensor like the 64MP one announced at the same time, this is a pixel pitch of 0.63µm. I believe that means it's already diffraction-limited at an aperture of f/1.8?

A full-frame sensor with the same pixel size would have a resolution of 2,166 megapixels.

**Rondec** · 08-09-2019, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by scratchpaddy

True, but Sony also wants to catch the attention of anyone who may be about to buy into a new Canon or Nikon system. They're grabbing attention with big MP numbers, something easy to compare and claim superiority on.

I agree that there isn't really anything new in the market that's satisfying any needs that weren't already satisfied. It's a little more of this, a little better at that. It's been more than five years since I bought my current camera, and there's nothing offering enough of an improvement in the things I care about to justify the cost of an upgrade right now.

I'm still glad to see more companies join the FF mirrorless market. They all bring their own unique approach to the category.

I feel the same way. Whatever my next camera is, I'd prefer something in the ~20 megapixel neighborhood. That's already overkill for most shots.
Assuming it's a 1/1.7" sensor like the 64MP one announced at the same time, this is a pixel pitch of 0.63µm. I believe that means it's already diffraction-limited at an aperture of f/1.8?

A full-frame sensor with the same pixel size would have a resolution of 2,166 megapixels.

My analysis is that people who haven't gone Sony mirrorless yet haven't because of some reason -- they don't like mirrorless cameras, they don't like Sony, or they think that the ergonomics aren't great on Sony cameras. Sony has been around for awhile and up till recently has owned the MILC market. People who haven't bought one already and are now considering a Z6 are unlikely to consider a 3500 dollar 61 megapixel Sony.

The people who are likely to purchase it are wealthy amateurs who have to have "the best" and are already invested in Sony. I'm just not sure how many of those are out there.

**Serkevan** · 08-09-2019, 03:09 AM

I have been recently informed of a friend's decision (absolutely *not* into photography) to purchase an a6400 camera because "it's Sony's latest model and it has the best tech". Spec-sheet oriented people exist. If it doesn't have 11K video at half a million fps it is not worth considering because who could manage to take a photo on anything worse, obviously...

Dan Rentea · 08-09-2019, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The people who are likely to purchase it are wealthy amateurs who have to have "the best" and are already invested in Sony. I'm just not sure how many of those are out there.

We have to look at Sony's sales for A7R III, a camera priced at 3600 at its release. We also have to look at Canon 5DsR sales and also at the internet discussions where people are waiting for the upgrade. That camera was also priced at 3500$ or more. Let's also look at D850 sales. These 3 companies sell 90% of cameras and we do see lots of people with 3500$ cameras.

We don't know who is going to buy it and we don't know the arguments of people buying these cameras as long as we are not in the market for them. Let's be serious, 3500$ for a working photographer is not that much as long as this is an investment for a few years.

**jlstrawman** · 08-09-2019, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Dan Rentea

We don't know who is going to buy it and we don't know the arguments of people buying these cameras as long as we are not in the market for them. Let's be serious, 3500$ for a working photographer is not that much as long as this is an investment for a few years.

Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras.
And then, write the cost off as a business expense.

**Rondec** · 08-09-2019, 06:44 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jlstrawman

Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras.
And then, write the cost off as a business expense.

You move in high end circles.

Most professional photographers I know are scraping by and are using D610/6D II level cameras with f1.8 primes and f4 zooms. They are shooting high school senior shoots for a few hundred and the occasional wedding for a couple of thousand. If they expense a 3500 dollar camera body, they might not eat for awhile.

neokind · 08-10-2019, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by jlstrawman

Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras.
And then, write the cost off as a business expense.

That’s been my experience too. Most pros I know wouldn’t hesitate to pick up one to test and a second if they like it. That’s not much money for a tool compared to many jobs, especially if your hourly is high enough. Of course, I know others who aren’t in markets that allow them to make casual $4k decisions. But, I didn’t find the price tag of the new body out of line at all. It’s exactly what they charged for the A7riii at release—and they sold a lot of them.

RonHendriks1966 · 08-10-2019, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by neokind

It’s exactly what they charged for the A7riii at release—and they sold a lot of them.

That is the exact target group to buy the new A7RIV. The question is if they mostly own and use the A7Riii. .......then will they upgrade or don't need to, because they have a good camera.

neokind · 08-10-2019, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

That is the exact target group to buy the new A7RIV. The question is if they mostly own and use the A7Riii. .......then will they upgrade or don't need to, because they have a good camera.

The same could have been said of the upgrade from A7Rii to Riii, no?

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08-08-2019, 07:30 AM - 1 Like	#196
Lev Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia Posts: 1,197	Originally posted by Zooland The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor. Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please

08-08-2019, 07:37 AM	#197
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Lev Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please It won't.

08-08-2019, 07:48 AM - 1 Like	#198
Zooland Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 370	Originally posted by normhead I don't' make much use of the 36 MP of my K-1, to the point if I got the same dynamic range out of an APS-c body, I'd sell it. For me, the MP race is over. I suspect for a lot of others as well. After all, the high MP has to provide some tangible benefit to you. Well some people buy it just because it's bigger and for some bigger is always better, but I doubt a lot of the market is like that. Will you really sell your K-1?

08-08-2019, 09:37 AM - 1 Like	#199
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Zooland Will you really sell your K-1? Not as long as I lose or any DR at 100 ISO. But if they can come up with an APS-c as good for sunsets and sunrises.... There's been all kinds , wedding togs. wild life togs, happy with 24 or even 20 MP, there are a lot of uses where people have gone back to lower MPS and been totally happy.

08-08-2019, 10:53 AM - 1 Like	#200
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by Lev Can anyone tell me how 2mm in diameter lens should resolve 108MP please It should resolve it on paper.

08-08-2019, 02:41 PM	#201
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Zooland The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor. Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser The Nokia Pureview some years ago had 48 MP already and the pictures were nothing too spectacular.

08-08-2019, 07:41 PM	#202
scratchpaddy Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,361	Originally posted by Rondec The people who are most likely to buy this sort of camera are current Sony users, not people who just purchased a Z6 or EOS R. True, but Sony also wants to catch the attention of anyone who may be about to buy into a new Canon or Nikon system. They're grabbing attention with big MP numbers, something easy to compare and claim superiority on. I agree that there isn't really anything new in the market that's satisfying any needs that weren't already satisfied. It's a little more of this, a little better at that. It's been more than five years since I bought my current camera, and there's nothing offering enough of an improvement in the things I care about to justify the cost of an upgrade right now. I'm still glad to see more companies join the FF mirrorless market. They all bring their own unique approach to the category. Originally posted by normhead I don't' make much use of the 36 MP of my K-1, to the point if I got the same dynamic range out of an APS-c body, I'd sell it. For me, the MP race is over. I suspect for a lot of others as well. After all, the high MP has to provide some tangible benefit to you. Well some people buy it just because it's bigger and for some bigger is always better, but I doubt a lot of the market is like that. I feel the same way. Whatever my next camera is, I'd prefer something in the ~20 megapixel neighborhood. That's already overkill for most shots. Originally posted by Zooland The MP race is on, phones are even reaching higher with Sony’s 48MP, Xiomi 64MP, and the next one at 108MP Samsung sensor. Xiaomi to bring world's first 108MP camera smartphone - MSPoweruser Assuming it's a 1/1.7" sensor like the 64MP one announced at the same time, this is a pixel pitch of 0.63µm. I believe that means it's already diffraction-limited at an aperture of f/1.8? A full-frame sensor with the same pixel size would have a resolution of 2,166 megapixels.

08-09-2019, 02:48 AM	#203
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by scratchpaddy True, but Sony also wants to catch the attention of anyone who may be about to buy into a new Canon or Nikon system. They're grabbing attention with big MP numbers, something easy to compare and claim superiority on. I agree that there isn't really anything new in the market that's satisfying any needs that weren't already satisfied. It's a little more of this, a little better at that. It's been more than five years since I bought my current camera, and there's nothing offering enough of an improvement in the things I care about to justify the cost of an upgrade right now. I'm still glad to see more companies join the FF mirrorless market. They all bring their own unique approach to the category. I feel the same way. Whatever my next camera is, I'd prefer something in the ~20 megapixel neighborhood. That's already overkill for most shots. Assuming it's a 1/1.7" sensor like the 64MP one announced at the same time, this is a pixel pitch of 0.63µm. I believe that means it's already diffraction-limited at an aperture of f/1.8? A full-frame sensor with the same pixel size would have a resolution of 2,166 megapixels. My analysis is that people who haven't gone Sony mirrorless yet haven't because of some reason -- they don't like mirrorless cameras, they don't like Sony, or they think that the ergonomics aren't great on Sony cameras. Sony has been around for awhile and up till recently has owned the MILC market. People who haven't bought one already and are now considering a Z6 are unlikely to consider a 3500 dollar 61 megapixel Sony. The people who are likely to purchase it are wealthy amateurs who have to have "the best" and are already invested in Sony. I'm just not sure how many of those are out there.

08-09-2019, 03:09 AM	#204
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	I have been recently informed of a friend's decision (absolutely not into photography) to purchase an a6400 camera because "it's Sony's latest model and it has the best tech". Spec-sheet oriented people exist. If it doesn't have 11K video at half a million fps it is not worth considering because who could manage to take a photo on anything worse, obviously...

08-09-2019, 05:39 AM	#205
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by Rondec The people who are likely to purchase it are wealthy amateurs who have to have "the best" and are already invested in Sony. I'm just not sure how many of those are out there. We have to look at Sony's sales for A7R III, a camera priced at 3600 at its release. We also have to look at Canon 5DsR sales and also at the internet discussions where people are waiting for the upgrade. That camera was also priced at 3500$ or more. Let's also look at D850 sales. These 3 companies sell 90% of cameras and we do see lots of people with 3500$ cameras. We don't know who is going to buy it and we don't know the arguments of people buying these cameras as long as we are not in the market for them. Let's be serious, 3500$ for a working photographer is not that much as long as this is an investment for a few years.

08-09-2019, 05:51 PM	#206
jlstrawman Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Midwest US Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,058	Originally posted by Dan Rentea We don't know who is going to buy it and we don't know the arguments of people buying these cameras as long as we are not in the market for them. Let's be serious, 3500$ for a working photographer is not that much as long as this is an investment for a few years. Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras. And then, write the cost off as a business expense.

08-09-2019, 06:44 PM - 1 Like	#207
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by jlstrawman Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras. And then, write the cost off as a business expense. You move in high end circles. Most professional photographers I know are scraping by and are using D610/6D II level cameras with f1.8 primes and f4 zooms. They are shooting high school senior shoots for a few hundred and the occasional wedding for a couple of thousand. If they expense a 3500 dollar camera body, they might not eat for awhile.

08-10-2019, 06:29 AM	#208
neokind Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 336	Originally posted by jlstrawman Well-stated. I know several professionals. I have learned from them, that they can make enough, from one job, to buy one of those ~$3500 cameras. And then, write the cost off as a business expense. That’s been my experience too. Most pros I know wouldn’t hesitate to pick up one to test and a second if they like it. That’s not much money for a tool compared to many jobs, especially if your hourly is high enough. Of course, I know others who aren’t in markets that allow them to make casual $4k decisions. But, I didn’t find the price tag of the new body out of line at all. It’s exactly what they charged for the A7riii at release—and they sold a lot of them.

08-10-2019, 09:06 AM	#209
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by neokind It’s exactly what they charged for the A7riii at release—and they sold a lot of them. That is the exact target group to buy the new A7RIV. The question is if they mostly own and use the A7Riii. .......then will they upgrade or don't need to, because they have a good camera.

08-10-2019, 10:17 AM	#210
neokind Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 336	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 That is the exact target group to buy the new A7RIV. The question is if they mostly own and use the A7Riii. .......then will they upgrade or don't need to, because they have a good camera. The same could have been said of the upgrade from A7Rii to Riii, no?