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08-30-2019, 03:50 PM   #1
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Should Canon Add IBIS to its Cameras? – Phoblographer Article Shows Lack of Research

This article came up in my news feed this morning:
Will Adding IBIS to Cameras Really Help Canon Out?

Aside from getting the origin of IBIS wrong (the Pentax K20D had it, six years before the cited Sony DSLR), the author seems to be so steeped in the old ILIS dogma that he can’t see any compelling advantages of IBIS. He even quotes an earlier Canon spokesman to support his argument, that boils down to “why change what we have”.

I wouldn’t argue that ILIS isn’t of value in some situations (long FL lens stabilisation) but this is a low point in reactionary argument.

08-30-2019, 04:11 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Aside from getting the origin of IBIS wrong (the Pentax K20D had it, six years before the cited Sony DSLR), the author seems to be so steeped in the old ILIS dogma that he can’t see any compelling advantages of IBIS.
Olympus had it a year before the K20D, the E-510 in 2007. And the Konica/Minolta Maxxum 5D & 7D had in-body shake reduction in 2004. The Pentax K10D & K100D both had SR in 2006...The last Penax body without SR was the K110D, also from 2006.

Last edited by boriscleto; 08-30-2019 at 04:21 PM.
08-30-2019, 04:34 PM   #3
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I think Canon is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

After championing ILIS as being so, so, so much better than IBIS, it is a bit embarrassing to switch boats. And probably they will have to pay someone else royalties for the technology, ummm won't like that.
My understanding is that ILIS gives better results with long lenses and has an advantage there, but IBIS works better at the low end,

And IBIS gets better with micro 4/3 cameras, I believe it is to do with the crop factor accentuating the movement. (Yes probably wrong on that one, but that is what I've read).

Not sure that adding IBIS to a Canon DSLR will boost sales, it is just part of the package.

My kids and grandkids 10-35yrs see their phones as their main camera.

So until a manufacturer grasps this reality and makes a crossover DSLR with an android based system so they can connect directly to the Net with snapchat, Instagram and other Apps. Then there are likely to be drop offs in sales of most large body cameras.

The younger generation has moved on and the camera companies aren't catering for them.

IBIS will improve Canon's cameras but not necessarily it's sales.

Greg
Pentax K200d and K70 with IBIS

---------- Post added 08-31-2019 at 09:05 AM ----------

PS Don't any of these companies do real market research????????
08-30-2019, 05:52 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
probably they will have to pay someone else royalties for the technology
It appears that Canon has filed its own patent for IBIS, so that shouldn't be an issue if Canon decides to put IBIS into its interchangeable lens cameras. However, there is considerable expense involved in redesigning cameras to incorporate IBIS, far more than simply updating sensors, processors and firmware.
QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
And IBIS gets better with micro 4/3 cameras, I believe it is to do with the crop factor accentuating the movement.
Except that the camera body moves just as far and fast and the crop factor means that a given amount of shake covers a larger portion of the image. Another way to look at it is how longer focal lengths are more difficult to keep steady. I believe the lighter weight of smaller sensors requires less energy to be moved, so the mechanism to move the sensor can be smaller and doesn't drain the battery as much, hence IBIS is easier to implement in smaller sensor formats.
QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
Not sure that adding IBIS to a Canon DSLR will boost sales, it is just part of the package.
Canon management agrees with you, they are forecasting that the camera industry will drop 50% in unit sales over the next two years.
QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
My kids and grandkids 10-35yrs see their phones as their main camera.So until a manufacturer grasps this reality and makes a crossover DSLR with an android based system so they can connect directly to the Net with snapchat, Instagram and other Apps.
Two things, smartphone users use their phones for more than just taking pictures and a DSLR is a poor form factor for a phone; plus direct connectivity isn't just a matter of running Android instead of whatever embedded OS they are currently using, it requires the services of a telecommunications carrier, in other words, the camera needs to have a phone built in and the camera needs to be subscribed to a cellular service. I'll skip a discussion about larger file sizes and whether SOOC jpegs without any review or editing is something that ILC users would be happy with.
QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
Don't any of these companies do real market research????????
The remaining camera manufacturers have been in business for several years, with thousands of employees engaged in much more than just making cameras. I'll go out on a limb and state that it will take more than just "real" market research to resurrect DSLR sales to the levels of 5-8 years ago.

08-30-2019, 07:31 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
So until a manufacturer grasps this reality and makes a crossover DSLR with an android based system so they can connect directly to the Net with snapchat, Instagram and other Apps.
You don't need a Trojan Horse OS in a camera to achieve this. Ricoh's Image Sync allows you to do it now – all it needs is a small change to that app to make it more direct.

QuoteOriginally posted by Greg1956 Quote
PS Don't any of these companies do real market research????????
I don't think they don't do real market research – it's just that confirmation bias skews the results.

---------- Post added 31st Aug 2019 at 12:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Olympus had it a year before the K20D, the E-510 in 2007. And the Konica/Minolta Maxxum 5D & 7D had in-body shake reduction in 2004. The Pentax K10D & K100D both had SR in 2006...The last Penax body without SR was the K110D, also from 2006.
Yes, I was allowing my own experience to override the rest of the field, to some extent –*the author was casually dismissive of the Pentax history with IBIS, referring only to the K-1/ii as having it.
08-30-2019, 11:36 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Yes, I was allowing my own experience to override the rest of the field, to some extent –*the author was casually dismissive of the Pentax history with IBIS, referring only to the K-1/ii as having it.
That's the problem that all major camera markers of the part are facing now. A feature that was delivered ten years ago , if not marketed again now , is quickly forgotten, thus in the mind of reviewers and customers that old feature doesn't exist. A new camera brand has the opportunity to re-paint the marketing and wipe out what other brands have developed before.

---------- Post added 31-08-19 at 09:02 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
This article came up in my news feed this morning:Will Adding IBIS to Cameras Really Help Canon Out?
How does the author knows if IBIS is better than ILIS? When Pentax introduced IBIS, why was it not as good as ILIS and why in 2019 IBIS is a must have?

To me, the author doesn't know what he is talking about. ILIS is best on DSLR because the lens stabilizes the image projected to the viewfinder and AF cells, enhances user experience and easy auto-focus performance with long lenses. ILIS , obviously the lens is stabilized, brings the sames advantages on a DSLR or on a DSLM. IBIS doesn't bring the advantages of user experience and helping AF on DSLR, but IBIS still does bring the same advantage on a DSLM. IBIS on the other hand brings stabilization to non-stabilized lenses including vintage glass, and IBIS enables features such as shift, horizon correction, pixel shift and astro-tracer. So on DSLM, IBIS cumulates all advantages, but there are pros & cons on DSLRs.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-31-2019 at 12:12 AM.
08-31-2019, 02:31 AM   #7
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Clearly he is a Canonite and therefore not terribly aware of features that Canon hasn't put in their cameras.

He is correct though that this isn't going to be the feature that blows up Canon's market share and sales volumes. The market is sinking pretty fast and it seems unlikely that such a feature would change that a whole lot. On the other hand, even brands like Fuji ended up coming out with some cameras with IBIS.

I guess one last comment is that Olympus has shown that you can have in lens and in body stabilization units work together to allow for really long exposures hand held. Just because you have invested in one is no reason not to add the other. Personally, I don't really want to be hand holding 5 second shots, but it is pretty cool that you can do it with some cameras (having a four thirds sensor probably is easier because it is way smaller than a full frame one).
08-31-2019, 08:57 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
This article came up in my news feed this morning:
Will Adding IBIS to Cameras Really Help Canon Out?

Aside from getting the origin of IBIS wrong (the Pentax K20D had it, six years before the cited Sony DSLR), the author seems to be so steeped in the old ILIS dogma that he can’t see any compelling advantages of IBIS. He even quotes an earlier Canon spokesman to support his argument, that boils down to “why change what we have”.

I wouldn’t argue that ILIS isn’t of value in some situations (long FL lens stabilisation) but this is a low point in reactionary argument.
It’s 2019, you want ibis AND ilis. Even Nikon is said to add ibis to DSLRs now. A rock solid viewfinder image for you and your af with long glass is really nice = ilis. For all other uses, add ibis. Combine both and you have a winner.
Pentax is about to „lose“ one major unique selling point.

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