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09-06-2019, 02:33 PM   #1
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any hands-on experience of nikon z6 & pentax m lenses?

as per title.

I could get a K1, currently using a k3, but since I only have one AF real FF lens (fa31), i don't really see the clear advantage of a K1 over something like a z6. I do have a da70 as well which i read to be fine on the K1.

But looking for a platform for my collection of m lenses, I can really appreciate the slightly smaller footprint of the Z6 and its video capabilities.

But not too sure about the handling part.
I know how a K1 will interact with those lenses since i do it with the K3 & absolutely love it. But i don't know how similar or not a Z6 will be.

any comment welcome..

09-06-2019, 02:53 PM   #2
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IMO these things mainly come down to OVF or EVF. Some folks get headaches and/or eye fatigue while using an EVF. My own experience, having owned a Fuji X-T20, was that for anything that required greater concentration than a casual snap, I much preferred an OVF. But the Nikon Z6 has a larger, higher-res EVF than what I have used.

Otherwise, many folks are of the opinion that mirrorless is a better platform for old, manual-focus lenses.
09-06-2019, 04:46 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
But i don't know how similar or not a Z6 will be.
I have no experience, but would expect it to be similar in that both are cameras and both are being used with other than their intended native lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Otherwise, many folks are of the opinion that mirrorless is a better platform for old, manual-focus lenses.
Much depends on the adapter used and the expectations as far as work flow. With a M-series K-mount lens on a Z6 you can expect:
  • Pre-set or fully manual aperture operation (depending on adapter) as opposed to automatic actuation with a K-1 or K3II
  • Metering should be at least as good as a K-1 or K3II in live view, Av and M only
  • Ease of focus may be somewhat better, depending on how you get on with the EVF. I am not sure if focus confirm is supported (probably).
  • Flash? I would expect dumb hot shoe with no TTL similar to on a Pentax dSLR.
  • Viewfinder information similar to on a Pentax dSLR
From the reviews I have read of F-mount support using the FTZ adapter as well as official Nikon documentation, best case is that usage will be similar to AI F-mount lenses of similar vintage. Worst case is that usage will be similar to F-mount of similar vintage.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-06-2019 at 06:11 PM.
09-06-2019, 05:29 PM   #4
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One of the best ways I can think of is if you happen to know someone close to you that has a Z6 that they can let you try out for an hour or so to see if you like the feel of it & if you like the evf.

09-07-2019, 04:12 AM   #5
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Wait! Aperture ring can be used to change aperture settings on Pentax DSLRs?
09-07-2019, 05:19 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Wait! Aperture ring can be used to change aperture settings on Pentax DSLRs?
Changing aperture of M lenses on pentax dslrs require pushing the green button... assume something similar on nikon z6.
I am not sure what steve meant with the below "automatic actuation".

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
With a M-series K-mount lens on a Z6 you can expect:
Pre-set or fully manual aperture operation (depending on adapter) as opposed to automatic actuation with a K-1 or K3II
I did try out the z6 in shop when i was there:

regarding ovf vs evf, i can understand the comments on that. Personally i don't feel it would hold me back for the intended usage. the evf was hugely clear though.

The seller said the only way to get focus confirmation was with focus peaking. Which worked quite fine to be honest, both in photo mode and video mode. Also in evf. I'll check out on the internet whether there cannot be a beep and red dot confirmation like with a pentax.. i like that..

and i was quite charmed by size and weight of the combo z6 & 24 70 f4 vs my k3 & 17 70, which is my main travel combo (and for travel video clips i need to carry sthing else as well..)
but i am quite into pentax dna & realize that the grass is always greener on the other side :-)
09-07-2019, 08:34 AM   #7
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Dunno about Z6 but I do know K-1.

Basically you are down to usin ’green button’ to get you started and then work your way from there, just like K-3 you are having. It is pretty straight forward and actually K-1 is quite good with OVF. It is just that much bigger and it feels ’natural’.

Also using your 70/2,4 and FA 31(believe me this is sweeeet on FF) and having it all as it should(no adapter, no hustle) is going to sve you from selling these in favor of going to all new system. Also 28-105 might be also not that bad. Not that much slower than 24-70/4.

That said, if you really want better video. Z6 should be good. Be prepaired for getting new system all in all thou. As said before, each system works best with it’s native glass there is ofcourse workarounds, but yea.

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Changing aperture of M lenses on pentax dslrs require pushing the green button... assume something similar on nikon z6.
I am not sure what steve meant with the below "automatic actuation".



I did try out the z6 in shop when i was there:

regarding ovf vs evf, i can understand the comments on that. Personally i don't feel it would hold me back for the intended usage. the evf was hugely clear though.

The seller said the only way to get focus confirmation was with focus peaking. Which worked quite fine to be honest, both in photo mode and video mode. Also in evf. I'll check out on the internet whether there cannot be a beep and red dot confirmation like with a pentax.. i like that..

and i was quite charmed by size and weight of the combo z6 & 24 70 f4 vs my k3 & 17 70, which is my main travel combo (and for travel video clips i need to carry sthing else as well..)
but i am quite into pentax dna & realize that the grass is always greener on the other side :-)
09-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #8
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Does the Z6 support mechanical aperture actuation? I didn’t think it had a mechanical aperture actuation provision and relied on the F-mount adapter for that.

I could be mixing up things, though...

But that would mean the end of open-aperture focusing and metering, I’d expect, as I don’t know if any K-mount adapters are that smart. That might make using Pentax lenses a pain...

-Eric

09-07-2019, 10:26 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Wait! Aperture ring can be used to change aperture settings on Pentax DSLRs?
Sure thing. I do it all the time. The only requirement is that you use M, B, or X modes.

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Changing aperture of M lenses on pentax dslrs require pushing the green button... assume something similar on nikon z6.
I am not sure what steve meant with the below "automatic actuation".
The green button is one of three metering strategies and has nothing to do with changing the aperture setting. The other two are using the DOF preview lever or an external meter. Some might also include "sunny 16".

As for automatic aperture actuation, most modern lenses support it and it is the feature, probably more than anything else, that makes SLR photography practical. In simplest terms, it frees the user from having to manually stop the lens down before making an exposure. On most K-mount lenses, it is done through the actuator lever on the back of lens. Adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras always require the intermediate manual step to stop down, similar to adapted M42 lenses on a K-mount camera.

Cheaper mirrorless adapters provide full manual as the only option and are incompatible with lenses that lack an aperture ring. With such, one must either count clicks or adjust the aperture ring visually if a specific f-stop is desired. More expensive adapters have a stop-down ring that allows a the adapter/lens combo to act as pre-set lens when an aperture ring is present and as a stepless aperture ring emulation for lenses lacking an aperture ring.

As noted above, so-called "auto" aperture was an amazing feature at one time and was called out for marketing purposes through much of the 1960s and early 1970s when many lenses did not support the required coupling and stop-down mechanism. By the late 1960s most M42 lenses featured the silver actuator pin on the back as well as the auto/manual switch on the side that allowed backward compatibility to older bodies as well as being adapted to non-M42 bodies.

Moving to using K-mount lenses on a mirrorless body is a lot like using M42 lenses on a Pentax SLR.


Steve
09-07-2019, 10:58 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
Does the Z6 support mechanical aperture actuation?
The FTZ adapter does not provide aperture actuation for F, AI, or AI-s lenses. Those require manual stop-down for metering and exposure. Put another way, one only gets aperture actuation with Nikkor AI-P, AF, AF-D, AF-S, AF-I, and AF-P mount series.

QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
But that would mean the end of open-aperture focusing and metering, I’d expect, as I don’t know if any K-mount adapters are that smart. That might make using Pentax lenses a pain...
You are correct.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-07-2019 at 11:05 AM.
09-07-2019, 11:08 AM   #11
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I use my legacy Pentax lenses on a Sony A7 with excellent results, and I imagine the Z6 would be better. Only disadvantage with adapted lenses is no auto diaphragm operation, so you use them stopped down. However, I haven’t found this to be much of an issue - as the EVF always stays bright, and I can still find best focus. I’ve never relied on “focus confirmation” aids as I don't find them accurate enough. But I do find EVF magnified view handy at times, especially with the lens stopped far down.
I never thought I’d like a EVF, but now I find it very easy to use.
09-07-2019, 12:07 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Sure thing. I do it all the time. The only requirement is that you use M, B, or X modes.



The green button is one of three metering strategies and has nothing to do with changing the aperture setting. The other two are using the DOF preview lever or an external meter. Some might also include "sunny 16".

As for automatic aperture actuation, most modern lenses support it and it is the feature, probably more than anything else, that makes SLR photography practical. In simplest terms, it frees the user from having to manually stop the lens down before making an exposure. On most K-mount lenses, it is done through the actuator lever on the back of lens. Adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras always require the intermediate manual step to stop down, similar to adapted M42 lenses on a K-mount camera.

Cheaper mirrorless adapters provide full manual as the only option and are incompatible with lenses that lack an aperture ring. With such, one must either count clicks or adjust the aperture ring visually if a specific f-stop is desired. More expensive adapters have a stop-down ring that allows a the adapter/lens combo to act as pre-set lens when an aperture ring is present and as a stepless aperture ring emulation for lenses lacking an aperture ring.

As noted above, so-called "auto" aperture was an amazing feature at one time and was called out for marketing purposes through much of the 1960s and early 1970s when many lenses did not support the required coupling and stop-down mechanism. By the late 1960s most M42 lenses featured the silver actuator pin on the back as well as the auto/manual switch on the side that allowed backward compatibility to older bodies as well as being adapted to non-M42 bodies.

Moving to using K-mount lenses on a mirrorless body is a lot like using M42 lenses on a Pentax SLR.


Steve
Wait wait wait... so i dont need need to use step down metering?
What are those M B X modes?
M is manual i suppose. What are other 2?
09-07-2019, 12:54 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As for automatic aperture actuation, most modern lenses support it and it is the feature, probably more than anything else, that makes SLR photography practical. In simplest terms, it frees the user from having to manually stop the lens down before making an exposure. On most K-mount lenses, it is done through the actuator lever on the back of lens. Adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras always require the intermediate manual step to stop down, similar to adapted M42 lenses on a K-mount camera.
thanks for the elaborate explanation Steve.
So if i understand correctly the below quote is basically the consequence.

QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
Only disadvantage with adapted lenses is no auto diaphragm operation, so you use them stopped down.
that is probably why i find the use of my m lenses so easy on my k3.
But i was never aware...

QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Also using your 70/2,4 and FA 31(believe me this is sweeeet on FF) and having it all as it should(no adapter, no hustle) is going to sve you from selling these in favor of going to all new system. Also 28-105 might be also not that bad. Not that much slower than 24-70/4.
Yes, i am aware that the two AF lenses i have that are fit for FF are very nice ones. with the da70 probably being an awesome portrait lens.. and i just remembered i have a f24 50 in the back of my cabinet that never gets used :-)
they would not get sold as i do plan to keep shooting pentax.
the z6 just appeals as a great FF platform & video solution in one package.
Your remark makes me think that with the budget for a nikon z6, i may also buy a k1 used and a cheaper video solution like a fuji x30 or so..
hm
nevertheless when i held the z6 and the 24 70 lens, believe me, it is a very nice smaller lightweight thing. Feel pentax is a bit behind here imo.
09-07-2019, 02:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
thanks for the elaborate explanation Steve.
So if i understand correctly the below quote is basically the consequence.



that is probably why i find the use of my m lenses so easy on my k3.
But i was never aware...



Yes, i am aware that the two AF lenses i have that are fit for FF are very nice ones. with the da70 probably being an awesome portrait lens.. and i just remembered i have a f24 50 in the back of my cabinet that never gets used :-)
they would not get sold as i do plan to keep shooting pentax.
the z6 just appeals as a great FF platform & video solution in one package.
Your remark makes me think that with the budget for a nikon z6, i may also buy a k1 used and a cheaper video solution like a fuji x30 or so..
hm
nevertheless when i held the z6 and the 24 70 lens, believe me, it is a very nice smaller lightweight thing. Feel pentax is a bit behind here imo.
I believe, no experience here, that Nikon is as good as any if not better. Dunno, I have all things sorted with Pentax. Time to time I have a need of video. Now depending how ’serious’ I want to be, I can just sigh and think of other options. But then they would not be that cheap either. Pentax is ’good enough’. Image vise. It is more than that.

But then afain If I was in to a mirrorless thing, it would be now harder than that.
09-07-2019, 02:58 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
the z6 and the 24 70 lens
A few more to join it too.

Nikon's 2020/21 Z lens lineup roadmap has been leaked - DIY Photography
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