[boriscleto]

That's sackable if you were a journalist.

But he isn't a journalist. Just an anonymous Internet poster. So if a journalist quoted him then that journalist should be sacked...

[MarkJerling]

In which way you find it terrible? If it was in the bad way, then the RP is about 20-25% worse. The EVF from EOS R is better than the one from Sony A7 III and very similar to the ones from A9 and A7R III with both A9 and A7R III having a slight advantage in terms of magnification.

That being said, I'm still not 100% comfortable with EVFs and to prevent headaches I switch from shooting trough EVF to shooting trough Live view from time to time to let my eyes rest a little. I'm very interested to see the EVF improvements on Sony A7R IV because EVFs get better and better each year.

I spent an afternoon with the EOS R and, while better than the Sony A7 III, as you rightly point out, it left me with fatigued eyes and the distinct impression that I was viewing the scene through a leadlight window. My eyes can see the little pixels in the EVF and I find that very distracting to the overall experience of using the camera. I also did not like the lag. I have not experienced the Sony A7R IV so, like you, I'll not comment about that until I have.

Maybe it's because I enjoy the OVF of the K-1 so much; Anything else that I have tired seems somehow inferior.

[luftfluss]

I feel kinda bad for Dave Etchells. He's a good dude and careful and diligent, and his interview with Ricoh is frequently misquoted and misinterpreted.

[clackers]

But he isn't a journalist. Just an anonymous Internet poster. So if a journalist quoted him then that journalist should be sacked...

IMHO, this is really 'letting the team down'. We shouldn't lie or be loose with facts to each other on this forum, it's a precious commodity for Pentax owners.

If MrKodak had said that in a bar to a nobody, it doesn't matter.

But here, other people will read it, and they might be well-informed enough to call BS, or they might simply quote it to paint Ricoh executives as fantasists and Pentax as doomed.

---

Last edited by clackers; 10-09-2019 at 04:21 PM.

[clackers]

I feel kinda bad for Dave Etchells. He's a good dude and careful and diligent, and his interview with Ricoh is frequently misquoted and misinterpreted.

Absolutely, Luftfluss, that's standard from Petapixel, DPR, F-Stoppers and others, but shouldn't be from Pentaxians who know better.

Japanese executives - who are expected to represent their company with gravitas and grace - must dread gaijin 'gotcha' journalism, and Etchells was doing nothing of the sort, but that's how it's been reported.

[Rondec]

It would be interesting to see a poll regarding a Pentax mirrorless used with adaptor and the new full frame lenses. The EF lenses work like a charm on EOS R/RP and a lot of people use their EF lenses on Canon mirrorless cameras. Sure, if you read some topics on Canon forum, the ones who haven't use the Canon mirrorless cameras scream all over the forum that shooting with adaptor is a bad thing.

It will involve a huge risk for Ricoh to start a new system from zero, but I wonder if people would buy an entry level full frame mirrorless to use it with adaptors until Ricoh manage to see if it's going to be a good investment. This is just a thought because from a business perspective it's not a good plan.

Are you saying an adapter that would allow for the focusing of screw driven primes and zooms? Or just one that allowed for auto focus with lenses that have focus motors? Because I think the first would be pretty expensive to do but would be what Pentaxians want.

The issue with a new mount is that at the current rate of production it would take fifteen years to even have basic lenses to fill out a lens line up. It just isn't happening unless the camera market turns around.

[stevebrot]

Sure, if you read some topics on Canon forum, the ones who haven't use the Canon mirrorless cameras scream all over the forum that shooting with adaptor is a bad thing.

Just wait until someone checks for light leaks...


Steve

(...remembering the A7's problems...)

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Last edited by stevebrot; 10-09-2019 at 06:12 PM.

[Dan Rentea]

Are you saying an adapter that would allow for the focusing of screw driven primes and zooms? Or just one that allowed for auto focus with lenses that have focus motors? Because I think the first would be pretty expensive to do but would be what Pentaxians want.

The issue with a new mount is that at the current rate of production it would take fifteen years to even have basic lenses to fill out a lens line up. It just isn't happening unless the camera market turns around.

Yes, that's why I said that from a business perspective it's not a good idea to launch a camera with just some adapters that works with all Pentax lenses (old and new). When comes to Canon, the adapter idea was received not so well by a lot of people, but now the ones who use the adapters are happy because they can use their existing lenses without any compromise and because now they can use filters via one of the adapters on lenses that couldn't be used with filters.

I for example wouldn't have any sort of problem to use a K1 mirrorless with the Pentax f2.8 trinity lenses via adapter until Pentax will release some equivalent native lenses. But I don't know how many people would be ok with this partial solution when comes to the "why Pentax doesn't release a mirrorless" question.

---------- Post added 10-10-19 at 07:57 AM ----------

I spent an afternoon with the EOS R and, while better than the Sony A7 III, as you rightly point out, it left me with fatigued eyes and the distinct impression that I was viewing the scene through a leadlight window. My eyes can see the little pixels in the EVF and I find that very distracting to the overall experience of using the camera. I also did not like the lag. I have not experienced the Sony A7R IV so, like you, I'll not comment about that until I have.

Maybe it's because I enjoy the OVF of the K-1 so much; Anything else that I have tired seems somehow inferior.

Yes, I fight for over a year with EVFs headaches. I'm getting used more and more with EVFs but I still prefer OVFs. This EVF problem became also a solution because I realized that people are a little more relaxed if they don't see the camera at the eye of the photographer. By switching from EVF to live view from time to time so my eyes can rest, I can get some nice candid images shooting in live view because people think that I adjust settings or something and don't pay attention to me as much as they pay attention when I have my camera to my eyes.

The lag was reduced a little on EOS R/RP with the last firmware update. But to be honest, I don't think that the idea of looking at a small TV will pass when comes to shoot with mirrorless cameras. I just hope that the small TV (it's how I call the EVF) will give me better and better experience in the next years.

---------- Post added 10-10-19 at 08:00 AM ----------

Just wait until someone checks for light leaks...


Steve

(...remembering the A7's problems...)

People will always find something to complain about. Light leaks, accelerator, dynamic range, EVF, resolution... you name it.

[Serkevan]

Absolutely, Luftfluss, that's standard from Petapixel, DPR, F-Stoppers and others, but shouldn't be from Pentaxians who know better.

Japanese executives - who are expected to represent their company with gravitas and grace - must dread gaijin 'gotcha' journalism, and Etchells was doing nothing of the sort, but that's how it's been reported.

The interview was, to me, very obviously a cautious Ricoh saying "Mirrorless is here to stay but EVFs are not always superior to OVFs, so some people will come back to DSLRs because they prefer the optical viewfinders". Which is, you know, a reasonable stance. How people can think that this is the same as saying "mirrorless is a fad" is baffling.

[MarkJerling]

The interview was, to me, very obviously a cautious Ricoh saying "Mirrorless is here to stay but EVFs are not always superior to OVFs, so some people will come back to DSLRs because they prefer the optical viewfinders". Which is, you know, a reasonable stance. How people can think that this is the same as saying "mirrorless is a fad" is baffling.

Good point. I for one, prefer OVFs. And Dan - although he has found a way to work with EVFs.

[BigMackCam]

I for one, prefer OVFs. And Dan - although he has found a way to work with EVFs.

You folks know I shoot both DSLR and mirrorless, and I get on just fine with EVFs - even slightly older types, like those in the A7 MkII and A99. No problems for me whatsoever... I guess I'm just lucky in that respect (there had to be something I'd be lucky with!! ). But I still prefer a good OVF when the use case doesn't specifically benefit from an electronic view...

[MrKodak]

It protects you and us from exaggeration, MrKodak.

And misrepresenting the person you're claiming to quote. And others on the Internet believing you're telling the truth, and repeating what you said - this is a public forum.

That's sackable if you were a journalist.

I live in Sweden; there wouldn't be more than five journalists at best left in the journalistic trade if that was applied here (sadly).

If anything I gave the man, which I didn't identify a raise; here is where I found this news:
Ricoh Executives Think Mirrorless Users Will Return to DSLRs in One or Two Years | Fstoppers

He was said to be a "Ricoh executive", and is in fact General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, Global Sales and Marketing Center, Smart Vision Business Unit.
This is the quote: "Currently, mirrorless is a newcomer, so of course, many users are very interested in the new systems; they want to use [them]. But after one or two years, some users who changed their system from DSLR to mirrorless [will] come back to the DSLR again."

How would you interpret that?

[Serkevan]

As "some users who went to try mirrorless because of new features will decide that the OVF experience is better for them"?

[Rondec]

I live in Sweden; there wouldn't be more than five journalists at best left in the journalistic trade if that was applied here (sadly).

If anything I gave the man, which I didn't identify a raise; here is where I found this news:
Ricoh Executives Think Mirrorless Users Will Return to DSLRs in One or Two Years | Fstoppers

He was said to be a "Ricoh executive", and is in fact General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, Global Sales and Marketing Center, Smart Vision Business Unit.
This is the quote: "Currently, mirrorless is a newcomer, so of course, many users are very interested in the new systems; they want to use [them]. But after one or two years, some users who changed their system from DSLR to mirrorless [will] come back to the DSLR again."

How would you interpret that?

He said a couple of things about mirrorless:

"Basically, we have been studying various formats and various systems, including mirrorless and also other types of systems. Any system, such as mirrorless or DSLR, has its own merits and benefits for users. For example, one of the benefits of DSLRs is that users can enjoy the shooting process by viewing the beautiful optical viewfinder. And on the contrary, of course, users can enjoy mirrorless cameras with easy operation [that provide a preview of] how the picture will [look] with an electronic viewfinder. Each system has its own benefits or merits, so we've been studying various possibilities. Currently, we [already] have various systems or formats, including medium-format, and also the high-end GR III system, and compact cameras, and waterproof cameras, and also Theta."

and

"Currently, mirrorless is a newcomer, so of course many users are very interested in the new systems, they want to use [them]. But after one or two years, some users who changed their system from DSLR to mirrorless come back to the DSLR again. Because as I said before, each system has its own benefits or appealing points. The mirrorless camera is very convenient to shoot, because users can [preview the final] image before shooting. But I believe the DSLR has its own appealing point, because users can create their own image from the optical viewfinder. People can see the beautiful image through the optical viewfinder, and then think how they can create their pictures -- for example, exposure level setting or white balance or ISO [sensitivity] -- and then imagine how they can get [the result they're seeking]. That is one of the big [advantages] of shooting [DSLR] cameras, so some users will come back to the DSLR system. But it might be they use both systems, DSLR and mirrorless. Because each system has its own benefits."

Overall, it is a nuanced approach, particularly in the context of the whole interview. He is saying that mirrorless and SLRs both will find their place long term, that not everyone who shoots mirrorless will like them, and that many people will choose to shoot them side by side. You can see this equilibrium in the graphs that Beholder3 posts on the Forum, which demonstrate that although there has been an onslaught of new mirrorless gear the last couple of years (and minimal SLR releases), mirrorless still has not overtaken SLRs in terms of sales.

Medium-format DSLRs are coming, and mirrorless converts will return! Ricoh Q&A from CP+

[reh321]

Yes, I fight for over a year with EVFs headaches. I'm getting used more and more with EVFs but I still prefer OVFs. This EVF problem became also a solution because I realized that people are a little more relaxed if they don't see the camera at the eye of the photographer. By switching from EVF to live view from time to time so my eyes can rest, I can get some nice candid images shooting in live view because people think that I adjust settings or something and don't pay attention to me as much as they pay attention when I have my camera to my eyes.

When I am taking candid shots, I almost always use my KP with the LCD down. and if people do notice me, they think I' "fiddling with" the controls and ignore me and my camera - exactly as I want,