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10-12-2019, 03:20 PM   #31
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I'm interested to see what Pentax, Canon and Nikon plans are for DSLRs because at this point these 3 are the only DSLR manufacturers. If Canon and Nikon won't release other DSLR cameras than the sport flagships (D6/1Dx Mark III), the market will look very different in 5-7 years. I don't know if this will be a good news for Pentax or they will be forced to go with the rest. Maybe a hibrid viewfinder will save DSLRs sales in the upcoming years.

These days are the Pro Black friday days in Romania and I went to the largest photo store today to buy some memory cards for EOS R. Except a few D850 cameras and a few 5D Mark IV which were sold these days, most of the buyers were all over mirrorless cameras. Z6, A7 III, EOS R, Fuji X-T3 were the most sold cameras if the guy from the store told me the truth.

If in 2020 we won't see replacements for 5D Mark IV, D750, D850, I think that more people will start to think at switching to mirrorless, especially if some nice mirrorless cameras will be launched next year.

Time will tell if DSLRs will have a life in the next 5-7 years.

10-12-2019, 04:11 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
the buyers were all over mirrorless cameras.
The value of the CIPA shipments refect that statement Dan.

In a declining market value wise, Dslr is down 35% on last year(Cipa August report for 2019) Mirrorless has grown a modest 2%.

The cameras in smartphones get better and better and better,CAMERAS are Doomed!
10-12-2019, 06:25 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The value of the CIPA shipments refect that statement Dan.

In a declining market value wise, Dslr is down 35% on last year(Cipa August report for 2019) Mirrorless has grown a modest 2%.

The cameras in smartphones get better and better and better,CAMERAS are Doomed!
DSLR cameras have matured - there is no reason for Nikon to improve the D850 unless they have improved something - and it is quite likely they haven't - likewise at some point Nikon sales will stagnate if they don't get more customers - and no reason to expect them to get more. On the other hand, MILCs are constantly improving, although Sony's rate of still releasing new cameras may give an incorrect impression of exactly they are still improving. Most photographers do not need - and they certainly won't fit into our budget -the best cameras in the world, so there will eventually emerge a tug-of-war between cameras offering more quality and photographer's wallets.
10-12-2019, 06:50 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
there is no reason for Nikon to improve the D850 unless they have improved something -
Like the AF in 4K?

11-08-2019, 07:00 AM   #35
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Low light shots on the Canon RP? Here's a video worth watching: Can a smartphone camera compete? Pentax would be smart to invest more effort in computational photography IMO, especially with the GR.

6 Days Ago   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Low light shots on the Canon RP? Here's a video worth watching: Can a smartphone camera compete? Pentax would be smart to invest more effort in computational photography IMO, especially with the GR.

The Google Pixel 4 Versus the Canon RP for Night Photography - Blind Test - YouTube
There are tons of videos comparing full frame cameras with smartphones (see also the below example where you can replace the EOS 1Dx with D850, K1, A7R IV and get the same results). I still rather use a 200$ phone to make calls, browsing web and check emails and use a dedicated camera to take pictures that will bring me money. When smarphones will be good enough to make me more money than my cameras and lenses, then I will pay more attention to them. Until then I use 200$ smartphones and with the price difference I buy a good lens. Each time I photograph a corporate brunch/event, the images taken with top end smartphones from clients look very bad compared to the ones taken by full frame.

6 Days Ago   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Low light shots on the Canon RP? Here's a video worth watching: Can a smartphone camera compete? Pentax would be smart to invest more effort in computational photography IMO, especially with the GR.
I realise that all digitally captured images are processed to some extent, but I'm completely turned off by the idea of computational photography when it comes to serious amateur and professional applications. Personally, I want image files to honestly reproduce what the lens sees, and how the sensor captures it, with the vast majority of processing decisions left to me. I can see potential benefits in A.I. for post-processing - Topaz' recent A.I. tools, for example - but I really don't want to see these techniques creeping into cameras unless they impact the JPEG only (and even then, only selectively). Just my two cents...
6 Days Ago   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I realise that all digitally captured images are processed to some extent, but I'm completely turned off by the idea of computational photography when it comes to serious amateur and professional applications. Personally, I want image files to honestly reproduce what the lens sees, and how the sensor captures it, with the vast majority of processing decisions left to me. I can see potential benefits in A.I. for post-processing - Topaz' recent A.I. tools, for example - but I really don't want to see these techniques creeping into cameras unless they impact the JPEG only (and even then, only selectively). Just my two cents...
I think Pentax's hand held pixel shift is one such foray. But the thing is that it is really, really slow. Combining four thirty-six megapixel images is pretty daunting for the processors that Pentax currently uses. Yes, it gives better dynamic range and less noise in low light, but you are probably best just shooting your images separately and combining them in post with existing super-resolution techniques.

And furthermore, Pentax took a huge amount of flack for the accelerator. I can't imagine if they had more aggressive RAW adjustments built in...

5 Days Ago   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There are tons of videos comparing full frame cameras with smartphones (see also the below example where you can replace the EOS 1Dx with D850, K1, A7R IV and get the same results). I still rather use a 200$ phone to make calls, browsing web and check emails and use a dedicated camera to take pictures that will bring me money. When smarphones will be good enough to make me more money than my cameras and lenses, then I will pay more attention to them. Until then I use 200$ smartphones and with the price difference I buy a good lens. Each time I photograph a corporate brunch/event, the images taken with top end smartphones from clients look very bad compared to the ones taken by full frame.

iPhone 11 Pro VS $7500 Pro DSLR Camera - YouTube
Someone posted that video in another thread, and as I said there: out of the five pictures, only one wasn't painfully obvious (and I was watching the video on my 5.something inch smartphone, so not really a big size).
Not only that, I like how the guy presents it as the iPhone being "almost there" with a 7500 camera... and then doesn't show any picture that makes use of the features of the 1D.
For those photos, he could have made the comparison with a 300 Rebel/1X00D using the 100 24mm pancake... and the results would have been the same.
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Someone posted that video in another thread, and as I said there: out of the five pictures, only one wasn't painfully obvious (and I was watching the video on my 5.something inch smartphone, so not really a big size).
Not only that, I like how the guy presents it as the iPhone being "almost there" with a 7500 camera... and then doesn't show any picture that makes use of the features of the 1D.
For those photos, he could have made the comparison with a 300 Rebel/1X00D using the 100 24mm pancake... and the results would have been the same.
I think that if you can't see the difference and don't understand why you'd want a better camera than is in your smart phone, then you probably don't need a higher end camera. And that's true for a lot of people.

It doesn't mean that smart phone cameras are as good as SLR or MILC cameras. It just means they are good enough for a lot of people.
5 Days Ago   #41
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I recently had the chance to take a few pictures with a Canon EOS R and was very impressed by it. If the RP is as good, considering its lower price, I just might be in the market.
5 Days Ago   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I'm interested to see what Pentax, Canon and Nikon plans are for DSLRs because at this point these 3 are the only DSLR manufacturers.
Now there is a sobering thought. It has never occurred to me. Thanks for pointing it out.

The old DSLR war horse has some life left in it. Unfortunately the enemies at the gate, i.e. the smartphone with computational powers, are getting more numerous and stronger by the day. And just what motives do the traitorous MILCs inside the walls have?
5 Days Ago   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think that if you can't see the difference and don't understand why you'd want a better camera than is in your smart phone, then you probably don't need a higher end camera. And that's true for a lot of people.

It doesn't mean that smart phone cameras are as good as SLR or MILC cameras. It just means they are good enough for a lot of people.
Absolutely: if the phone is "good enough" for you, then there's no need for you to buy anything else; my parents for example have smartphone cameras because it's practical and they certainly do the job for their travel photos and family memories. A dslr/milc would just stay home because of the size, and compact cameras substantially better than their phones are goint to be pretty expensive (while not adding a lot).

About the video, my point is that the comparison is not quite fair: they put the best qualities of a smartphone (wide-ish shots in quite good light) against a camera that is very expensive precisely because of the performance outside those use cases. No one -unless super rich I guess- buys a 1D for casual portraitute and some daylight landscapes.
5 Days Ago - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Absolutely: if the phone is "good enough" for you, then there's no need for you to buy anything else; my parents for example have smartphone cameras because it's practical and they certainly do the job for their travel photos and family memories. A dslr/milc would just stay home because of the size, and compact cameras substantially better than their phones are goint to be pretty expensive (while not adding a lot).

About the video, my point is that the comparison is not quite fair: they put the best qualities of a smartphone (wide-ish shots in quite good light) against a camera that is very expensive precisely because of the performance outside those use cases. No one -unless super rich I guess- buys a 1D for casual portraitute and some daylight landscapes.
Sure. If you don't need any accessories (flash, grip, etc), don't care overly much about low light performance, want to only use a moderately wide angle lens, and never print your pictures or display them higher than web sizes then a smart phone camera is perfect for you.
4 Days Ago   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
I recently had the chance to take a few pictures with a Canon EOS R and was very impressed by it. If the RP is as good, considering its lower price, I just might be in the market.
It's not as good, but not far behind either in terms of image quality. For the price and considering the weight and small size, it can be a good all around camera if the EVF doesn't give you headaches.
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