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08-16-2020, 11:40 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I know it makes you feel better to claim that this test is flawed, but actually it simply compares the most modern high res DSLMs from three makers and your beloved Sony is not the winner this time. But hey, maybe the A7R5 catches up again in two years.



That doesnt help the A7RIV compete in any way, and we are not comparing low res / low image quality cameras, but high res ones. Super fast high res ones.

And there are simply no robust comparative tests out there which prove your claim, so allow me to call b/s on this. Feel free to provide proof.

For anyone needing a lot of cropping for wildlife and anyone wanting competitive dynamic range that old 24 MPx sensor in the the A9II never was cutting edge. It was a great one trick/feature pony in its time.
Sony's sensor image quality sacrifices made to allow a fast display obviously did not fit to a broad audience. Not even the A9/A9II owners in forums dared advertise the image quality as a strength.
But that is off topic anyway. Here we discuss high res/high image quality bodies.

Just be happy that Sony now really need to up their game in the next A7R cameras to catch up.
You have no idea what you are talking about. I could care less about Sony. I currently use their cameras, but if something better comes along that works better for my needs, I will be happy to switch.


You have no idea what the A9 was designed for. Reporters and professional sports photographers don't want 40+MP. They really don't even want 24MP. They need to quickly get images to editors.... JPEGs not RAWs. For many professional sports photographers, they are working tethered with JPEGs going straight to a an editor working at the event. The A9 was never designed to be ultimate image quality or resolution. You don't seem to understand what different cameras are designed for. You are not going to see sports photographers or photojournalist shooting with an R-5. Great AF or not. Its not what they need.


The DR of the A9 is plenty. It captures more than an 8-bit JPEG can display and much more than the 7-8 EV of DR that you get from a print. Even most professional photographers are not running more than an 8-bit workflow. If you are shooting landscapes or HDR then you get more DR and resolution for other cameras and you don't need an A9 AF. For journalist and event photographers the 24MP sensor in the A9 is more than enough in terms of resolution, DR, & image quality. I print dozens of prints and wedding books a year and I have no issue with the DR or resolution of the A9. If it was a problem I would never have switched over. The AP just switched over to Sony for the very reasons I'm listing. IF they had any issues with DR or image quality they would have never switched. I get the feeling you spend a lot more time talking about cameras on the internet than actually using them and making prints.

08-16-2020, 01:46 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I expect to see the Sony to fall behind even more with animals, especially when it's not a dog or cat.
The A7iv is due,just wait and see what that offers?

---------- Post added 08-17-20 at 07:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
More companies making great cameras is a good thing for everyone.
Absolutely, its just a shame that all the gear coming out this year is in such extreme circumstances.Development gets funded by sales and they aint going UP!
08-16-2020, 11:37 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
You have no idea what you are talking about. I could care less about Sony.
LOL. Relax. Breathe slowly. You try to play the white knight coming in to the rescue of lady Sony here with no need. Check the thread title.

Who did bring up the A9 which he coincidentally owns? Right: Sir Winder.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
You have no idea what the A9 was designed for.
Ah, the old internet apology "it was not designed for ...". Sadly this doesnt make the A9/A9II sensor any more competitive in the image quality department. The D600 from 2012 has the same resolution and a better DR than the current A9II. Oops.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Reporters and professional sports photographers don't want 40+MP.
Sure, just as Lomography shooters dont want maxed out lenses.
Sir Winder, I may remind you that you did push your beloved and oh so perfect A9 into this discussing about high res top image quality cameras. Now explaining that it doesnt fit the topic of this thread is funny.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The DR of the A9 is plenty.
Sony A9 DR is worse than the 2012 D600. In 2015 the D7200 crop camera provided this exact "plenty" DR and the same resolution.
For some a five year old crop camera surely is plenty enough. Those cameras cost around $400 to $500 used now.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I print dozens of prints and wedding books a year and I have no issue with the DR or resolution of the A9.
Be happy if you don't have higher quality requirements.
And so did people in 2012 with the same performing D600 sensor. And people on film a decade ago.
Competitive in 2020? No.
08-17-2020, 02:32 AM   #274
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The A9 and A9 II are fast focusing low megapixel cameras meant to match up against cameras like Nikon's D5 which is also 20.8 megapixels. They aren't really meant to be landscape cameras, although you could use it for such purposes.

Maybe these new Canons will pass up the A9 series, but to me, most of these cameras have higher frame rates and more auto focus points than I would ever need (and more video quality too). My guess is that most photographers using A9s currently are pretty happy with them and will wait till Sony brings out the next camera in that series.

08-17-2020, 03:15 AM - 3 Likes   #275
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As the sniping has started and the thread is fast going off topic, shall we close it?
08-17-2020, 03:28 PM   #276
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Back on topic!



The RF glass isnt cheeeep! But there are plenty of EF mount lenses that can be had for reasonable prices.

Here is an assessment of the adapted glass and how it performs,obviously native glass is the ideal but not for the bank account

Skip to 16.38 for his conclusions,if you dont want to watch all.





---------- Post added 08-18-20 at 09:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
the sniping has started
Its like the virus,can even get to ShheeepyLand!

---------- Post added 08-18-20 at 10:13 AM ----------



Ofcourse bringing new tech to the game brings out fear in plenty of the $ony Fanbabies who have enjoyed THEIR exclusive claim to the champion overheating device(its not just their cameras,my Z3 overheats too but i manage it).

This guy is a good explorer.

Last edited by surfar; 08-17-2020 at 04:14 PM.
08-28-2020, 03:10 AM   #277
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Firmware is pretty Cool!



The first firmware development progresses reasonably well.













08-28-2020, 04:49 AM - 1 Like   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote


The first firmware development progresses reasonably well.
So they are finally uncrippling the cameras from the obviously artificial timer?

08-28-2020, 08:03 AM   #279
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It's already the best camera Canon has ever made. Crippled or not. I'm surprised we don't have a 35mm F/1.4 or F/1.2 yet.

The problem that Canon is going to have is still with glass. The EF lenses with adapters is going to work for a lot of people, but the EF glass is really showing its age on these newer cameras. The RF glass is really nice, but a $3,000 85mm F/1.2 isn't a great value compared to the Sigma 85mm F/1.4 DG DN ART at $1,200.

A problem that all of the brands have is that Sigma is making glass that is just as good or even better than the big brands for a lot less money. Sigma AF is even better than some of the big brands. There are some impressive options in glass on the market.
08-28-2020, 08:09 AM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
So they are finally uncrippling the cameras from the obviously artificial timer?
They are number 1 in sales for a reason,smart marketing intermingled with reasonably good product.

This firmware is just the start,the R and RP were substandard on release.As the engineering progressed both have developed into excellent devices for the technological capabilities of the older sensors and processors.I'm expecting that the R5/6 will be fully developed by this time next year,perhaps sooner?Fuji get their stuff into the market place at a fairly capable level then finetune as they release the different formfactor bodies.Canon have probably observed this and followed suit.It wasnt long after the actual release that they revealed a firmware update was in the works.

I'm wondering now about all the obsolete YouTube content thats inaccurate after this release?

---------- Post added 08-29-20 at 02:20 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It's already the best camera Canon has ever made
Its the leading "hybrid" at this point in time,the first "nuke" in the war.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The RF glass is really nice, but a $3,000 85mm F/1.2 isn't a great value compared to the Sigma 85mm F/1.4 DG DN ART at $1,200.
Yes, but surely Sigma and Tamron are working hard at reverse engineering.
08-28-2020, 08:23 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It's already the best camera Canon has ever made. .
I still vote for the Canon IV SB2 - a real jewel to handle, better than the competing Leica IIIf for the time.
08-28-2020, 08:57 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
I still vote for the Canon IV SB2 - a real jewel to handle, better than the competing Leica IIIf for the time.
Wasn't that a range finder? I think a friend of mine has on on a shelf in his "collection" but I've never picked it up.
08-28-2020, 10:22 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Wasn't that a range finder? I think a friend of mine has on on a shelf in his "collection" but I've never picked it up.
Yes - last of the classic models that founded the company. Their goal back then was to surpass Leica (which then was still one of the biggest), and the IV SB2 was arguably better quality than the Leica thread-mount cameras. But Leica came out with the M3 (and later M models) which the other RF companies couldn't match, so Nikon, Canon, and others switched to SLRs. Canon did come out with several new series of rangefinders until about 1968, but adding features also added bulk and quality slipped as they left the proven designs behind. They launched their Canonflex SLR in 1959 (as Nikon did the F), which was a VERY well made camera, but Nikon had a more complete line of lenses and focused on a single model (F) for years, while Canon always made tiered models to try and sell to every market segment.
They designed fresh to the Pellix and FT (not quite pro-level but big sellers - even I bought an FT) but didn't really take off huge until electronics were added (EOS).

Like the old Leicas the IV SB2 was small, solid, all metal and precise. A delight to use - except for the tiny peep-hole VF if you wore glasses.
08-28-2020, 10:30 AM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
They are number 1 in sales for a reason,smart marketing intermingled with reasonably good product.

This firmware is just the start,the R and RP were substandard on release.As the engineering progressed both have developed into excellent devices for the technological capabilities of the older sensors and processors.I'm expecting that the R5/6 will be fully developed by this time next year,perhaps sooner?Fuji get their stuff into the market place at a fairly capable level then finetune as they release the different formfactor bodies.Canon have probably observed this and followed suit.It wasnt long after the actual release that they revealed a firmware update was in the works.

I'm wondering now about all the obsolete YouTube content thats inaccurate after this release?

---------- Post added 08-29-20 at 02:20 AM ----------



Its the leading "hybrid" at this point in time,the first "nuke" in the war.



Yes, but surely Sigma and Tamron are working hard at reverse engineering.
Gosh, you guys are far richer than me, tossing around dollar figures that are way past my budget. Spending 300% more for a 10% better image (maybe, sometimes) is plainly for paid pros, a market Canon say the R5 and R6 aren't targeted towards anyway, or for prosumers with more disposable cash than I'm willing to part with.

Looks like nice gear and all but I think my smart money for stills would be on getting for a much more affordable camera system that gets me 90% or better of the way there. Just my 2 cents. I mean you're talking way past 10K just to get a camera and a couple of the recommended lenses. Yeah you can cheap out on old lenses Canon didn't intend for them, but doing so really isn't "cheap" either and seems like trying to compromise, too much camera settling for a lesser lens.

It makes me even more appreciative of the camera gear I have. I'm apparently not Canon's new market. Not Leica's either.

@Surfar, keep us up to date on your experience with your R5 though. it usually doesn't take that long anymore for features to filter down into more affordable camera bodies. I still have a few years of shooting in me. I hope.

Last edited by gatorguy; 08-28-2020 at 11:18 AM.
08-28-2020, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #285
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