Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-02-2020, 08:52 AM   #61
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 34,376
QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I would say about 90% of my birding opportunities are not BIF, unless I want photos of avian posteriors.
Because the terrain where I live is heavily wooded, you have to know where to go even to get landscape images, my BiF opportunities are limited to dumps and gravel pits. Not places you want to sit down for a day and enjoy the scenery while waiting for opportunities. I'm guessing less the 1 in 1000 of my photo opportunities involve birds in flight, and much of the time when it has, my Pentax gear has been up to the task.

recommending lens and body purchases on a open forum based on bird in flight capability to average kinds of users strikes me as fiscally irresponsible. And when you consider that most action cameras are 24 MP or less, also detrimental to your landscape shooting. For many of us a K-1 capable of with 4 FPS and 36 MP will give us better images 99.9% of the time than a top of the line, very expensive action camera. The type of person who would get better images on average with an action camera is actually pretty rare. You sacrifice landscape quality to get that performance. For shooters like me, it would harm my photography more than it would help it. After all. many of us are still single frame shooters.


Last edited by normhead; 03-02-2020 at 08:58 AM.
03-02-2020, 09:39 AM   #62
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,491
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I shoot landscape and wildlife, but i don't go to areas where birds in flight are a big thing. Most people don't. It's really annoying that when anyone says "wildlife" people go to birds in flight. It might be cool to ask the OP if he plans to shoot birds in flight before launching into this endless debate which is largely irrelevant to most Pentax shooters.

Because if the answer is no then there's a lot you can do without super AF.

Wildlife | Flickr

Contrary to what some would have you believe, there is a great deal of wildlife that doesn't not involve birds in flight, it's a very small subset for most of us. It's hardly the standard by which 99% of photographers should be judging what camera to buy.
I said that I should have mentioned that for me wildlife involves action, from BIF to running deers or anything that moves. I assumed he is more into action because if he was shooting static subjects I'm not sure why any camera wouldn't be enough as long as for static subjects you don't need Af-C or Af-S at all (manual focus will do the job anytime for static subjects). But he said that af from Pentax wasn't as good as he wanted and that's why I wanted to make sure that he thinks very good before investing in Olympus for improved af and lighter gear.

---------- Post added 03-02-20 at 04:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because the terrain where I live is heavily wooded, you have to know where to go even to get landscape images, my BiF opportunities are limited to dumps and gravel pits. Not places you want to sit down for a day and enjoy the scenery while waiting for opportunities. I'm guessing less the 1 in 1000 of my photo opportunities involve birds in flight, and much of the time when it has, my Pentax gear has been up to the task.

recommending lens and body purchases on a open forum based on bird in flight capability to average kinds of users strikes me as fiscally irresponsible. And when you consider that most action cameras are 24 MP or less, also detrimental to your landscape shooting. For many of us a K-1 capable of with 4 FPS and 36 MP will give us better images 99.9% of the time than a top of the line, very expensive action camera. The type of person who would get better images on average with an action camera is actually pretty rare. You sacrifice landscape quality to get that performance. For shooters like me, it would harm my photography more than it would help it. After all. many of us are still single frame shooters.
In case you missed the OP comments, he is looking for Olympus for better af, lighter and smaller gear. He also said that he doesn't know if he is going to leave Pentax or adding Olympus also in the mix. If you read my comments, I said a few things that might be interesting if you read carefully:

1. I said that he may also wait for the new Pentax APS-C and see if the af issue he now have will be solved
2. I said that I'm willing to bet that the new Pentax APS-C will outperform Olympus E-M1 Mark III
3. I gave him a few examples of better cameras (in my opinion) that Olympus E-M1 Mark III, starting with Nikon D500 and continuing with Fuji X-T4, Sony A6600 or even Sony A7 III. All of my recommendations/suggestions have arguments that the OP is interested in: light, small, fast af. I also told him why I wouldn't invest in Canon M6 Mark II which is better in every aspect than E-M1 II, but due to lack of lenses and overall lack of Canon interest in M mount, I would stay away for a while from Canon M mount.

By my part he can buy any camera he wants. I'm offering options that I would like to receive if I would have had a dilemma.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 03-02-2020 at 09:51 AM.
03-02-2020, 09:50 AM   #63
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 34,376
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I said that I should have mentioned that for me wildlife involves action, from BIF to running deers. I assumed he is more into action because if he was shooting static subjects I'm not sure why any camera wouldn't be enough as long as for static subjects you don't need Af-C or af at all. But he said that af from Pentax wasn't as good as he wanted and that's why I wanted to make sure that he thinks very good before investing in Olympus for improved af and lighter gear.
Ya, that is somewhat mysterious, given the independent reports that have shown Pentax AF for anything but AF.c tracking is top notch. There's a very good chance that unless he buys a top of the line tracking camera, his AF.s results will be less accurate results, not more. Pentax's on the AF.s tests do very well against even the best. It's pretty likely he will trade better AF.c for worse AF.s When I see people happy with 4/3 it's more often about the weight, than the performance, although 4/3 compared to APS-c isn't much different in IQ for most images, in the same way APS-c isn't much different from FF in most images.

I know what he thinks he'll be getting. I don't know if he knows what he'll be losing to get it. it's tough for some but essentially, you have to give something to get something. If you don't understand what you're giving up, you can't make an informed decision. Manufacturers advertise what cameras are good at. They don't warn you about what they aren't so good at.

As you wander down to smaller sensors your DoF starts to get ridiculously wide, making AF.c images appear very good without the kind of precision focusing you need on APS-c or FF. But for the average guy wanting DoF to keep BiFs in focus, the tech for a larger sensor camera has to be a lot more precise.

Last edited by normhead; 03-02-2020 at 09:56 AM.
03-02-2020, 10:55 AM   #64
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,491
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, that is somewhat mysterious, given the independent reports that have shown Pentax AF for anything but AF.c tracking is top notch.
He was shooting college sport so I don't think he was using Af-S in those cases.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When I see people happy with 4/3 it's more often about the weight, than the performance, although 4/3 compared to APS-c isn't much different in IQ for most images, in the same way APS-c isn't much different from FF in most images.
I shoot a lot indoor and sometimes in bad lighting situations while often I have to shoot at ISO 4000 or higher. I already have to work hard with full frame... micro 4/3 would make my life harder than I would like without any real benefit over my camera. My EOS R weights 660g (80g heavier than E-M1 Mark III and it costs exactly the same as E-M1 Mark III). With RF 35mm f1.8 that weight 305g I can shoot an entire event. Where is the weight advantage of Olympus in this case? In those 80g?

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I know what he thinks he'll be getting. I don't know if he knows what he'll be losing to get it.
That's why I suggest renting when possible.

03-02-2020, 12:00 PM   #65
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
bwDraco's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,061
Original Poster
To be honest, I do intend to shoot birds in flight, but that's not the only—or even the primary—goal of this setup. The thing is that Micro Four Thirds gives long reach with less weight and bulk than APS-C or full-frame systems. And as far as I can tell, the OM-D E-M1 line has autofocus that's more than capable of doing birds in flight.

This is meant more as a general-purpose setup. While wildlife photography is a focus, birds in flight is only part of this, and the overriding concern is reduced size and weight. Indeed, I'm well aware that a smaller sensor means compromises in image resolution and low-light performance, and nothing rules out my going into Sony Alpha or any other camera system (including continued use of the Pentax K system) for situations requiring maximum image quality while continuing to use Micro Four Thirds for everyday photography.

This is why I'm continuing to maintain my Pentax gear, at least until I know what they have in store later this year.


Draco
03-02-2020, 12:14 PM   #66
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,438
Olympus will surprise you,but the 3 is overpriced!

The 2 can be found new for around half and has been firmwared up to the X standard(bar a couple of features)

Add the gen 2 Panasonic 100-300 and you have weather sealed 24-600mm.As a bonus Olympus has a 2x digital TC which is adequate for online sharing but not big prints.

Last edited by surfar; 03-03-2020 at 11:36 AM.
03-02-2020, 02:04 PM   #67
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,438
03-04-2020, 02:27 AM   #68
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 716
QuoteOriginally posted by bwDraco Quote
To be honest, I do intend to shoot birds in flight, but that's not the only—or even the primary—goal of this setup. The thing is that Micro Four Thirds gives long reach with less weight and bulk than APS-C or full-frame systems. And as far as I can tell, the OM-D E-M1 line has autofocus that's more than capable of doing birds in flight.

This is meant more as a general-purpose setup. While wildlife photography is a focus, birds in flight is only part of this, and the overriding concern is reduced size and weight. Indeed, I'm well aware that a smaller sensor means compromises in image resolution and low-light performance...
Yeah, see your points from the beginning. You seem to know well what you will be losing going to smaller sensor size and the Pro wildlife guy I gave example earlier made the same point on the Auto-focus, size, weight + weather seal. The 4/3 crop factor turns out to be a good decision for his wildlife work.
It looks like all you need is trying one for real!

03-05-2020, 10:39 AM - 4 Likes   #69
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
bwDraco's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,061
Original Poster
So... I ended up taking the plunge yesterday and got the E-M1 Mark III with the M.Zuiko 12-100mm, plus a 64 GB SanDisk Extreme PRO UHS-II card to put in slot 1. (The second SD card slot was populated with an older 64 GB UHS-I card; only slot 1 supports UHS-II speeds.)

First impressions are very, very positive: S-AF is extremely fast, decisive and accurate; a brief C-AF test on some seagulls in flight produced surprisingly high keeper rates; high-ISO performance is above expectations; and the image stabilization is almost supernatural: A 1/3s exposure at 100mm (200mm equiv. 135) came out perfectly sharp. My Panasonic flashgun (originally purchased for my FZ1000) also works as designed, which is expected because Olympus and Panasonic flashguns are pretty much identical to each other. The lens hood on the M.Zuiko 12-100mm positively latches with a button release so it can't accidentally come off. USB Power Delivery support is a huge boon, because it lets me charge (or operate) the camera in the field using the USD PD power banks I already have. And above all, it's amazing how compact and lightweight this setup is.

The only major complaint I have is the steep learning curve: Olympus OM-D cameras are notorious for their complexity and it'll take me a long time to make sense out of all the menus and controls.

In less than 24 hours of ownership, Olympus has managed to seriously impress me. Pentax needs to step up their game and deliver something competitive.

Draco
03-06-2020, 06:35 AM   #70
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 626
QuoteOriginally posted by bwDraco Quote
So... I ended up taking the plunge yesterday and got the E-M1 Mark III with the M.Zuiko 12-100mm, plus a 64 GB SanDisk Extreme PRO UHS-II card to put in slot 1. (The second SD card slot was populated with an older 64 GB UHS-I card; only slot 1 supports UHS-II speeds.)

First impressions are very, very positive: S-AF is extremely fast, decisive and accurate; a brief C-AF test on some seagulls in flight produced surprisingly high keeper rates; high-ISO performance is above expectations; and the image stabilization is almost supernatural: A 1/3s exposure at 100mm (200mm equiv. 135) came out perfectly sharp. My Panasonic flashgun (originally purchased for my FZ1000) also works as designed, which is expected because Olympus and Panasonic flashguns are pretty much identical to each other. The lens hood on the M.Zuiko 12-100mm positively latches with a button release so it can't accidentally come off. USB Power Delivery support is a huge boon, because it lets me charge (or operate) the camera in the field using the USD PD power banks I already have. And above all, it's amazing how compact and lightweight this setup is.

The only major complaint I have is the steep learning curve: Olympus OM-D cameras are notorious for their complexity and it'll take me a long time to make sense out of all the menus and controls.

In less than 24 hours of ownership, Olympus has managed to seriously impress me. Pentax needs to step up their game and deliver something competitive.

Draco
Have fun exploring the system.
03-06-2020, 06:50 AM   #71
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 34,376
QuoteOriginally posted by bwDraco Quote
Pentax needs to step up their game and deliver something competitive.
How do the images compare to k-1 images 36 MP files? 20 MP? Olympus needs to step up their game and make a real camera.
20 MP seriously? Not even K-3 level.
03-06-2020, 07:44 AM   #72
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
acoufap's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Munich, Germany
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,006
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How do the images compare to k-1 images 36 MP files? 20 MP? Olympus needs to step up their game and make a real camera.
20 MP seriously? Not even K-3 level.
Sensor delivers only 12 Bit Depth (Raw) - that‘s Pentax K-S2 league ... if I remember right.
03-06-2020, 07:50 AM   #73
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
luftfluss's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,833
QuoteOriginally posted by bwDraco Quote
So... I ended up taking the plunge yesterday and got the E-M1 Mark III with the M.Zuiko 12-100mm, plus a 64 GB SanDisk Extreme PRO UHS-II card to put in slot 1. (The second SD card slot was populated with an older 64 GB UHS-I card; only slot 1 supports UHS-II speeds.)

First impressions are very, very positive: S-AF is extremely fast, decisive and accurate; a brief C-AF test on some seagulls in flight produced surprisingly high keeper rates; high-ISO performance is above expectations; and the image stabilization is almost supernatural: A 1/3s exposure at 100mm (200mm equiv. 135) came out perfectly sharp. My Panasonic flashgun (originally purchased for my FZ1000) also works as designed, which is expected because Olympus and Panasonic flashguns are pretty much identical to each other. The lens hood on the M.Zuiko 12-100mm positively latches with a button release so it can't accidentally come off. USB Power Delivery support is a huge boon, because it lets me charge (or operate) the camera in the field using the USD PD power banks I already have. And above all, it's amazing how compact and lightweight this setup is.
Awesome! I hope you'll eventually post some pics.

QuoteQuote:
In less than 24 hours of ownership, Olympus has managed to seriously impress me. Pentax needs to step up their game and deliver something competitive.
Obviously Olympus packs a lot of tech and performance into a fairly small body, and some of these capabilities are maybe difficult to implement in a DSLR. But if you are an "image quality above all" kind of person, the E-M1 Mark III is behind comparably priced gear from Pentax and other manufacturers.
03-06-2020, 08:47 AM   #74
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 21,586
QuoteOriginally posted by bwDraco Quote
So... I ended up taking the plunge yesterday and got the E-M1 Mark III with the M.Zuiko 12-100mm, plus a 64 GB SanDisk Extreme PRO UHS-II card to put in slot 1. (The second SD card slot was populated with an older 64 GB UHS-I card; only slot 1 supports UHS-II speeds.)

First impressions are very, very positive: S-AF is extremely fast, decisive and accurate; a brief C-AF test on some seagulls in flight produced surprisingly high keeper rates; high-ISO performance is above expectations; and the image stabilization is almost supernatural: A 1/3s exposure at 100mm (200mm equiv. 135) came out perfectly sharp. My Panasonic flashgun (originally purchased for my FZ1000) also works as designed, which is expected because Olympus and Panasonic flashguns are pretty much identical to each other. The lens hood on the M.Zuiko 12-100mm positively latches with a button release so it can't accidentally come off. USB Power Delivery support is a huge boon, because it lets me charge (or operate) the camera in the field using the USD PD power banks I already have. And above all, it's amazing how compact and lightweight this setup is.

The only major complaint I have is the steep learning curve: Olympus OM-D cameras are notorious for their complexity and it'll take me a long time to make sense out of all the menus and controls.

In less than 24 hours of ownership, Olympus has managed to seriously impress me. Pentax needs to step up their game and deliver something competitive.

Draco
Congrats on the new camera.

Pentax is working on something, they just are in the position of having to break even, unlike Olympus, where the camera division has been a black hold for revenue for the last decade.
03-06-2020, 11:27 AM - 2 Likes   #75
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
bwDraco's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,061
Original Poster
Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III with M.Zuiko 12-100mm f/4 PRO @ 57mm; 1/250s f/5.6 ISO 200. Out-of-camera JPEG. Click through to see the full-resolution image on Flickr.

Last edited by bwDraco; 03-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
300mm, 70-200mm, camera, comparison, d500, e-m1, experience, f/2.8, f2.8, f4, fa*, gear, grip, home, k-3, lens, lenses, money, nikon, olympus, olympus om-d e-m1, om-d, om-d e-m1 mark, pentax, results, tamron, terms, weight, wildlife
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Olympus Lenses for Micro Four Thirds drawing me in....HELP ! Ronald Oakes Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 19 02-05-2018 09:40 PM
For Sale - Sold: Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mirrorless Micro Four Thirds Digital Camera ChuyQ Sold Items 5 02-21-2017 07:54 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:30 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top