[notacamerasnob]

Pentax appears to be just ahead of Lieca based on Flickr user totals, with approx. 270 users a day. The EOS 5D mk 3 hs close to 1000 all by itself. The top 5 Canon sellers have close to 4000 users. IN the same categories there are 1700 Sony shooters. Based on those numbers compared to Canon is about right, 42% on flicker 45% in the first post.

Based on the Panasonic market share 4.7% and that for their top 5 sellers (3 of which are ILCs) Panasonic have 345daily users.
Pentax with 270 daily users are only 27% behind Panasonic suggesting market share of suggests a market share of 3.69% for Ricoh/Pentax with Pentax product.

The math doesn't completely add up, and I don't have time to go into all the models for each company, but based on the top sellers that's what it means. And if you look at ILCs, Pentax is ahead of Panasonic. For ILC's Pansonic has slightly less shooters than Pentax at 250 day.

The stats in the first post are clearly not necessarily useful for strictly ILC shooters.

You can certainly argue with my methodology, but it remains true, the more sources you look at, the more accurate your conclusions are likely to be. I'm seeing Pentax hanging in at somewhere near 3.5% market share with numbers teased out of these two sources.

But just to show you how the sales numbers are misleading compared to actual use, the Top 5 Nikon users average 3000, the Top 5 Sony's 1700. The sales numbers reflect neither market share, nor usage. How many cameras they sold this month means what? Shooters buying new gear, it says nothing about how many users actually use the cameras, which is the true measure of a company's market share. A lot of Nikon users are still using D7100s. Many Pentax users are still using K-5s and K-50s. Only one Sony camera is more popular on Flickr than the Nikon #5 D7100, Both Canon and Nikon users for their top models are about 1000 users, Sony about half that. Pentax with the K-1 at 75 users, is 7.5% of either Canon and Nikon's most used cameras, and 15% of Sony's sales, or 3% the total of the top 3. It all washes out to somewhere between 3 and 3.5% market share, for Pentax ILCs.

Sony may be selling more cameras than Nikon, but they are also no where near Nikon's user base. It will be interesting to see if they actually catch up in user base.

I'm not sure are how many dollars 3% of the ILC market represents, but I'm guessing Pentax is making money.

I would like to see similar numbers for lenses. One has to remember, while market share can go up and down over years, the number of active users you have determines how many lenses you can sell. It will take Sony years to match the ability of Canon and Nikon to sell lenses, despite their current position, if it ever happens at all.

I watch Amazon.ca inventory of Pentax on a daily basis. And every day, the inventory gets adjusted down for virtually all the Pentax cameras listed. People, even in Canada, are buying Pentax and the inventory can go from 6 or 7 units down to Out of Stock in less than 1 week. Then you think about the fact that Canada doesnt even represent 1 percent of the worlds population, and Canadians arent even heavy photography users. Yet despite all this, almost every camera store and dept store (online) business sells Pentax.

It just doesnt make sense to talk about Pentax as being a blip. No company could survive by just being a blip.

[normhead]

I watch Amazon.ca inventory of Pentax on a daily basis. And every day, the inventory gets adjusted down for virtually all the Pentax cameras listed. People, even in Canada, are buying Pentax and the inventory can go from 6 or 7 units down to Out of Stock in less than 1 week. Then you think about the fact that Canada doesnt even represent 1 percent of the worlds population, and Canadians arent even heavy photography users. Yet despite all this, almost every camera store and dept store (online) business sells Pentax.

It just doesnt make sense to talk about Pentax as being a blip. No company could survive by just being a blip.

There are way to many users here way to committed to never missing chance to get off a cheap shot at Pentax. If there's anything they can think of negative to Pentax they'll go for, truth, speculation, innuendo or outright lie, they don't care.

[Wheatfield]

I watch Amazon.ca inventory of Pentax on a daily basis. And every day, the inventory gets adjusted down for virtually all the Pentax cameras listed. People, even in Canada, are buying Pentax and the inventory can go from 6 or 7 units down to Out of Stock in less than 1 week. Then you think about the fact that Canada doesnt even represent 1 percent of the worlds population, and Canadians arent even heavy photography users. Yet despite all this, almost every camera store and dept store (online) business sells Pentax.

It just doesnt make sense to talk about Pentax as being a blip. No company could survive by just being a blip.

Hello Leica.
Hey Hasselblad, hows things?
Really good. Have you met my Japanese cousins Mamiya and Bronica?
Yes, I saw that they bought some pretty nice cars.
Yeah, one bought a Bentley, the other a Koenigsegg.

All four of those camera companies would have registered as little more than blips through the late 1960s right up to the end of film, yet they survived and did OK until the world changed entirely, the automotive companies mentioned, the Swedish one especially, are barely blips.
A company can to quite well as a blip, as long as they make enough money to do what they do.

The thing is, they have to do something different enough from the big players to really differentiate themselves.
Something like making ILC rangefinder cameras in an SLR world, or making fast super cars in a market dominated by 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs, or making medium format cameras in a market dominated by postage stamp film cameras..

Or by sticking with SLRs when everyone else is jumping on the mirrorless bandwagon.

[normhead]

Or by sticking with SLRs when everyone else is jumping on the mirrorless bandwagon.

When you have 3% market share, the only thing relevant is your segment of the market. General market trends are irrelevant.

[Wasp]

I would also like to see an affordably priced L-mount body with a Pentax logo on it. It's perfect - after the K mount comes the L mount. Sadly, Pentax executives has ruled that the whole mirrorless thing. Those who want a mirrorless Pentax will have to shop for a K01 on flea bay...

[mee]

I would also like to see an affordably priced L-mount body with a Pentax logo on it. It's perfect - after the K mount comes the L mount. Sadly, Pentax executives has ruled that the whole mirrorless thing. Those who want a mirrorless Pentax will have to shop for a K01 on flea bay...

That could be fun. But if they give up K for a conglomerate mount, they lose autonomy. I think we'd have a better chance (albeit super slim) of seeing a Ricoh L mount body before we'd ever see it with a Pentax logo on it.

But then Ricoh would be competing with themselves in a alright expensive and tight market that still appears to be shrinking. So I don't think that'll happen either.

I'd be ok with just an autofocus powered adapter ring to mount K lenses on some mirrorless body (preferably Nikon Z) by some 3rd party at this point.

[notacamerasnob]

Another point I wanted to make, that I might not have made well enough or completely enough, is that the review number on the Pentax 50mm F1.8 lens on Amazon totals 786 reviews by customers who have purchased that Pentax lens. By comparison, the Canon 50mm F1.8 review total is 4,972.

So, as a ratio, Canon gets 6.3 reviews for every 1 Pentax review.

Now, if Canon owns 45 percent of the market, that would mean Pentax probably owns 6.3 times less marketshare, going by the 50mm F1.8 demand between the two companies So, that would put Pentax's market share at just over 7%.

I realize my analysis isnt complete, nor scientific, but looking at the review and demand numbers on Amazon is a decent barometer to go by, imho. Especially since we are reviewing the demand for the most popular lens - 50mm F1.8.

And dont forget that Pentax gets more money from their 50mm than does Canon, in that the Pentax is usually priced at 10% higher than the same offering from Canon. A higher price will cut demand all things being equal, but Pentax still holds 7% even with the higher listed pricing. That's impressive.

If Pentax went Toe to Toe with Canon on pricing for camera bodies, lenses and camera packages, I think Pentax could capture more market share and hit closer to 10%.

On Amazon, a KS2 is going for $807 Canadian, but the Canon equivalent SL2 is going for $128 less at $679. If Pentax put the KS2 at $679, sales would increase dramatically. Even the SL3 is listed at $40 cheaper than the Pentax KS2. Pentax gets a Premium on their gear from buyers because the quality and performance is superior to Canon, imho. That's worth something.

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Last edited by notacamerasnob; 08-21-2020 at 07:35 PM.

[Wasp]

AFAIK the KS2 is not produced anymore. The ones that are lying around in the rain forest must be used or new old stock. The asking price seems a bit steep but I suppose there is a market for them.

As for Pentax matching Canon on price, those days are long gone. Pentax is a niche player now. They do their own thing. Canon and Nikon sell a vast range of cameras that Pentax choose not compete with. There is nothing in the range to compete at the low end with the likes of the EOS 2000D and 4000D. At the other end of the market, there is no EOS 1D equivalent either. The range of Pentax lenses is fairly comprehensive but do not scratch every imaginable itch like the big players do.

[cometguy]

Pentax is absolutely a non-player as their sales probably barely register. I'm surprised by Nikon though. I always thought they were doing well as they seem to have compelling products.

The only SLR type of camera system that I've used in the past 40 years besides Pentax is Nikon, that being film (I own the fabulous F4).
I have long looked at getting a Nikon DSLR for two reasons: I don't need to buy any new Nikon lenses, and I'd like to do some FF digital imaging and video with what Nikon stuff I have (I do have some good lenses, but I'm only shooting film with my Pentax LX these days). With that background, I'll say that I was very patient about finding a mint Nikon DSLR off Ebay with low shutter count for relatively little money, and I watched for some time while doing my research, and I won't even consider an APS-C Nikon. The problem is that the FF Nikon DSLRs all have well-known manufacturing defects and recalls (the D600, D610, D750, D800E are the ones you can find in mint condition for $1000 or less). Indeed, one of the serious issues is a defective AF sensor (I think it's in the D750 but also the D800), which really undercuts Nikon's claim to being a great AF camera. I hear a lot of Nikon DSLRs needing new shutters, well before the claimed lifetime of their shutters [ https://petapixel.com/2017/07/14/nikon-recalls-d750-third-time-shutter-issue/ ]. The one with the fewest problems (oil on sensor; shutter issues) is the D800E, and that's still quite an expensive DSLR in mint condition (generally around USD $1000), even though it came out eight years ago and its technology is somewhat dated. I don't follow Canon, but those pros who look at these cameras may well be put off by the quality-control issues in the manufacturing of Nikon DSLRs in the last decade, which are fairly serious.. Meanwhile, I have never had a problem with any of my Pentax cameras breaking or failing in the slightest manner (other than needing new batteries) in four decades of using Pentax equipment.

Furthermore, you don't see commercials on TV for DSLRs, but when you do see commercials and ads for the parent companies, you see Sony or Canon, and not really any of the other DSLR makers very much. Name recognition is big amongst the general public, even if not such a big deal amongst serious photographers

Smartphones, starting with the fabulous iPhone (current models have a 12-Mpx camera sensor, and my 2017 SE has a 29-mm f/2.2 lens), have really been destroying the DSLR [ The State of the Camera Industry (Stats Report) ... https://photographylife.com/smartphone-vs-camera-industry ]. Indeed, everybody having a smartphone with camera made in the last decade is much more attuned to using digital viewing screens (mirrorless), so the sheer prevalence in the general public of these smartphones with decent cameras means that younger potential camera buyers are less likely to go to the more-unfamiliar DSLR route. All of the big DSLR makers (Pentax/Ricoh included) depend on other non-DSLR equipment sales for the vast majority of their sales [ Japanese camera companies fight for survival in the Smartphone era ]. Just last year did mirrorless camera sales pass DSLR sales, and the last stats I could find have them still close to 50-50. Sony has passed Canon in mirrorless camera sales [ Sony wins mirrorless race, beating Canon and Nikon for 2019 full-frame sales | Digital Camera World ].

[Mistral75]

We now know (an estimate of) the global market share of Pentax-branded cameras in 2019: 0.8% of DSLRs and 0.5% of ILCs.

Shipments of SLRs and mirrorless cameras in 2019 - PentaxForums.com

[clackers]

We now know (an estimate of) the global market share of Pentax-branded cameras in 2019: 0.8% of DSLRs and 0.5% of ILCs.

Shipments of SLRs and mirrorless cameras in 2019 - PentaxForums.com

I trust your analysis based on CIPA data and extrapolations of the company finance reports better than Nikke's, Mistral.

The last time I looked at their claim in the past of such shipment figures, you could see their methodology and it was relying on lousy sampling sources like BCN (in Japan).

Where would Nikkei get its data from when even shareholders are not told breakdowns?

[Mistral75]

I trust your analysis based on CIPA data and extrapolations of the company finance reports better than Nikke's, Mistral.

The last time I looked at their claim in the past of such shipment figures, you could see their methodology and it was relying on lousy sampling sources like BCN (in Japan).

Where would Nikkei get its data from when even shareholders are not told breakdowns?

From a Japanese marketing research company named Techno Systems Research Co., Ltd. Their name is quoted as source in the Nikkei report.

[clackers]

From a Japanese marketing research company named Techno Systems Research Co., Ltd. Their name is quoted as source in the Nikkei report.

But where would Techno Systems get theirs from? They're not privy to confidential information, either the retail side (every store in the globe would have to divulge sales, brand by brand) or from the manufacturers (has anyone ever seen Panasonic product sales?).

Unless Techno reveal their methodology and sources, we must assume they are also guessing.

I'd put your methodology against whatever theirs is any time.

[notacamerasnob]

Amazon Canada carries the KP, the K70, the K1 and even the ricoh street shooter (cant remember the name of that one), and they also carry most of the lenses etc. When I say carry, I am referring to IN STOCK items that Amazon Canada will ship out the door next day.

No way that lineup would be stocked and ready to go if it only comprised less than 1% of the total photography market.

Btw, did you folks know that Canon's entry level camera, the T100, has a fixed diopter OVF? Yes, it does. You cant adjust the OVF viewer if you have eyesight that doesnt correspond to what Canon thinks is acceptable.

And secondly, did you folks know that Canon's new mid range cameras have been crippled by having the flash pins removed in order to force Canon owners to buy flash lights from Canon itself. Canon actually removed the pin so 3rd party flash strobes wont work. And if you end up buying a Canon flash unit, in Canada at least, the cost is north of $250. If you want a Canon Macro flash strobe setup, you are looking at close to $1,000 in extra costs.

I bough a T100 on sale but returned it when I realized I couldnt see through the OVF and I couldnt adjust it either.

For the Canon fanboys out there, or fangirls, it amazes me that you shooters put up with that. If Pentax did the same, the company would be ridiculed left and right.

[HomeMadeSin]

....If Pentax did the same, the company would be ridiculed left and right.

Doesn’t seem to matter what Pentax does for that to happen. Or to be fair, any company these days truthfully.