[stevebrot]

So, what do you folks say of these thoughts and ponderings?

It appears you are frustrated by lack of novelty and secure future in your chosen tools. I recommend retiring your current stuff and buying the new compact Sony A7C. Too steep? Steep is part of the fun, remember?


Steve

[ChristianRock]

I would like to know what is this KP sensor limitation you speak of... it would be a huge step up in every way compared to your K5. And the lenses make the system quite small.

[Raffwal]

I would like to know what is this KP sensor limitation you speak of... it would be a huge step up in every way compared to your K5. And the lenses make the system quite small.

I mean APS-C size, compared to FF.

[normhead]

Well, the thing is that we may not want to take pictures only in sunshine and of zebras.

Too funny....




This last one taken with a K-5 8 years ago.




K-5 and DA*60-250, 2013


K-1 and DA*200






K-1 and DA*60-250. I had time for two exposures before this guy disappeared into the bush, nailed them both.







10shots, 10 in focus. AF.c tracking. (K-1 and DA 55-300 PLM



One of the basic rules in photography is the larger the sensor, the more skill you need to make the best use of the camera.

From the OP's comments to date, my suspicion is, MTF is the limit of his ability.

If true, buying a K-1 will be an endless source of frustration. But let's not try and say that's about Pentax.

I'm really curious about action shots taken in low light. In my experience the problem with action shots in low light is that you don't have enough shutter speed to freeze the action, not AF.

The camera focussed, the people moved.


So, go ahead blame Pentax AF if you so desire, I see I it differently.

But at least for the part where you can't get Pentax to work for you, we can give you the benefit of the doubt. It may not make any difference to the rest of us, but, it's probably true for you.

---

Last edited by normhead; 10-10-2020 at 05:59 PM.

[northcoastgreg]

I'll buy one of the last OM-Ds (probably an E-M5 Mk III) and keep shooting with it until it dies. But as camera IQ in general gets better year after year, I wonder how long would I be happy with a new E-M5.

There's an incorrect premise here—namely, that "camera IQ in general gets better year after year." It does not, nor has it for nearly ten years (or eight years for m43). I have shot with both the E-M5i and E-M5ii and there's no significant difference between them. Nor is going from the 16 MP sensor of the earlier E-M5's to the 20 MP of the latest amount to much of anything. Thirty inch prints from each camera would pretty much look indistinguishable via normal perception. Now since you have some very nice lenses for m43, I think you're better off sticking with you E-M5 until it gives up the ghost; then you can upgrade to whatever m43 camera, JIP or Panasonic, suits your fancy. At this point, I wouldn't get caught up on needing the "latest and greatest," because the latest and greatest, if we are comparing cameras in the same class, is not going to be any better than much older cameras.

The main reason to upgrade would be to for better "image quality," which nowadays means: less noise at higher ISOs, greater DR at base (or comparable) ISO, and the ability to capture more detail. That can only be achieved by going to larger sensor cameras. The Pentax K-1 will produce more detailed images than an E-M5. But the K-1 is a big, heavy, bulky camera. The KP won't necessarily allow you to capture more detail, but it will provide better ISO performance, better DR, better color, more attractive rendering, better overall real image quality (i.e., what you see with your eyes). As far as the AF is concerned, in my experience, I never really noticed much of a difference between the E-M5 and my Pentax cameras. When differences exist, they tend to be very lens dependent. Virtually all Olympus lenses AF about the same. Not true with Pentax lenses. They're all over the map. The DA 55-300 PLM, for example, focuses just as well, if not better, than any of the Olympus lenses I've shot with; and it's flat out better than the Pany 45-175.

One thing else. There has been improvement in AF performance in Pentax land over the last ten years. On the K-5, my DFA 100 would hunt so much that I rarely used AF with it. On the K-1, it only hunts at Macro distances. At normal distances it works really well. KP performance falls a little short of the K-1, but definitely improves on the K-5.

[Sandy Hancock]

I just don't feel the desire to buy yet another APS-C body with its sensor short comings.

I don't understand this statement. You seem to have been quite happy with the sensor shortcomings of the smaller micro four-thirds format. APS-C is a significant step up. You already have some excellent crop lenses in K-mount, and the autofocus in the newer bodies (if that really is so important to you) is certainly considerably better than your K-5.

Otherwise, I agree with quite a few suggestions/comments already made.

[Raffwal]

OK. Thanks everybody. Many good ideas and suggestions. My starting point may seem confusing, because it is! I felt lost in my camera strategy. I’d like to especially thank northcoastgreg because he has been using so similar equipment and his experience helps me understand what to expect with different upgrades. Also helped to hear that significant AF advancement has really happened (in stead of telling me I just can’t do it right).

Actually, I am now thinking I’ll keep using both systems in the long run. I’ll use the E-M5 as long as it works and will get a more modern Pentax body.

[Sandy Hancock]

I’ll use the E-M5 as long as it works and will get a more modern Pentax body.

Excellent decision

[Kunzite]

If you are planning to switch from Olympus to another system, why not consider Nikon/Sony/Canon/Fuji instead of pentax, if you move over to sony/canon you won't have to worry about your manufacturer dying out too soon.

Correction: you won't have to worry about various people constantly telling you your manufacturer would die out. Like, for decades.
And nobody told around how Samsung was dying (before it happened), as for Olympus, their financial issues were pretty much ignored until they announced they're giving up. Now Nikon's and Canon's SLR lines might also be terminated.
But Pentax? Oh, boy...

The OP's choice, IMO, is between going DSLR or staying MILC.
But there are two big unknowns here:
- what JIP will do with Olympus, and how much would Panasonic support m4/3 (I'm not optimistic)
- the capabilities - especially performance - of the new generation of Pentax cameras.
We should find out about the latter in the next months; the former, I'm not sure (they might do something obvious, or not) - maybe by the end of the next year?

[Kunzite]

I believe this:

Actually, I am now thinking I’ll keep using both systems in the long run. I’ll use the E-M5 as long as it works and will get a more modern Pentax body.

is the best decision.
It won't be a long wait.

[BigMackCam]

I am now thinking I’ll keep using both systems in the long run. I’ll use the E-M5 as long as it works and will get a more modern Pentax body.

Excellent decision

nobody told around how Samsung was dying (before it happened), as for Olympus, their financial issues were pretty much ignored until they announced they're giving up. Now Nikon's and Canon's SLR lines might also be terminated.
But Pentax? Oh, boy...

I believe this:

is the best decision.
It won't be a long wait.

I agree, the OP's decision makes sense.

I'll just add that when I bought my A99-based Hasselblad HV in early 2016, Sony A-mount had been all but dead for some time (just one new entry level APS-C and one high-end, expensive full format SLT released in several years, and no new lenses), even though Sony never confirmed as much. Furthermore, after all the embarassment over ludicrous pricing and fashion-oriented marketing at release, Hasselblad had washed their hands of the HV and other Sony-based models. I think a few senior people got fired over the whole fiasco, and rightly so. Despite all this, I've had no problem acquiring lenses and accessories which continue to be readily available either new or used. There's plenty of compatible gear circulating - so, whilst the mount may no longer be current, it hasn't stopped me from building my system and enjoying my photography.

Even if micro 4/3 were to become a legacy format in the near future, with no new development of cameras or lenses, it's such a mature system that there will be more than enough gear available for many years to come...

[surfar]

C) My third option is just waiting to see where all this camera business turbulence takes us

This is the best option at this point in time.

---------- Post added 10-12-20 at 05:23 AM ----------

meanwhile

Consider some used alternatives to spice up your fun.

The EM5 mk 2 is quite cheap,its a much better camera that the first edition.USD 200ish +.Alternatively a PenF,a great camera imo ,but they cost a bit more.The EM 1 mk 2 has been firmwared up to almost EM1X level,still available new if you shop around.

Or K-3 or K-3ll if you want some weight.Or a KP but handle one first,you may not like the feel.

---------- Post added 10-12-20 at 05:26 AM ----------

look at Fuji.

A change is as good as a holiday!

[normhead]

Sounds good, and in keeping with my long time rule "Keep what you've got until you get what you want."

These with days with cameras, there really has to be a compelling reason to switch brands.

[Wheatridger]

OK. Thanks everybody. Many good ideas and suggestions. My starting point may seem confusing, because it is! I felt lost in my camera strategy. I’d like to especially thank northcoastgreg because he has been using so similar equipment and his experience helps me understand what to expect with different upgrades. Also helped to hear that significant AF advancement has really happened (in stead of telling me I just can’t do it right).

Actually, I am now thinking I’ll keep using both systems in the long run. I’ll use the E-M5 as long as it works and will get a more modern Pentax body.

It's wise to run both systems for a little while, until you see whether Pentax's strengths matter to you. I'm doing the very same thing now, except in the other direction. As a longtime Pentax user, I'm trying out a GX8 as a second system. Pentax and Panny seem to cover each others' weaknesses: the GX promises all that Pentax doesn't provide, including fast AF, great video, light weight and compactness. Pentax offers larger sensors, higher IQ and a traditional OVF, which I prefer. Will the GX8 give me the quality I need? We'll see. Looking at DXOmark, my K-1 gets a "Sports" score (measuring sensitivity) of 3200, against 820 for the GX8, which is a class-leading MFT sensor. I just spent time processing RAWs from a gloomy real estate listing. The K-1 files allow me to use the full range of Shadow & Highlight sliders without causing excessive noise.

We'll see how this experiment works out. Meanwhile, a few things you might not realize about the K-1:
- It doesn't require "only the best" lenses. Initially, I used F-series autofocus film lenses with excellent results.
fun fact: a K-1 with a Pentax-F 24-50/4 is about the same weight and size as a K-3 with the DA 16-50/4 zoom!
- Set the K-1's third control wheel to Crop and you have three formats at the push of a button. It's easy to crop down any lens 1.5x, with no real loss of quality, since you're removing flaws at the edges. It's even more fun to select the 1:1 option and compose in a square. This is the biggest thing I miss when I take my K-3 out for a walk.

Incidentally, I also use a GRll. With a larger sensor in a much smaller package, that questions the whole rationale of MFT cameras. No viewfinder, though, which I can't abide.

[bvg]

...But as my K-5 did not have a much better IQ - if any - than my E-M5...

If so, you should sell all your Pentax gear and buy some FF: Nikon z5, Pana S5, etc.