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11-08-2020, 05:12 PM   #1
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Mirrorless camera and long focal lengths for 4K video

Hi All,

Does anyone have any experience with taking 4K video with long focal length lenses and mirrorless cameras? I'd like to get one for taking video of wildlife and airshows, but rolling shutter seems to be a big issue. At this stage I may have to give up and get a 4K camcorder instead, but I'd really like to be able to use a mirrorless for more quality and versatility - I do want to use it with wide lenses as well.

11-08-2020, 08:07 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Does anyone have any experience with taking 4K video with long focal length lenses and mirrorless cameras?
plenty

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
I'd like to get one for taking video of wildlife and airshows, but rolling shutter seems to be a big issue.
Look at and research

Fuji XH1....Fuji XS10....XT4....all with varying degrees of stabilised sensors,also the XT3 is quite good. ETERNA is the film sim made for video.
11-08-2020, 09:17 PM   #3
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I also have experience with video and long lenses, but not on mirrorless. However, I have done a lot of research on the topic. The XT4 as recommended above is great, as is the GH5. In fact even the XT30 has minimal rolling shutter (you can look up tests on YouTube) and good 4K.
11-09-2020, 12:19 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
plenty
Thanks for the reply. What camera(s) and lenses did you use? What sort of things were you recording? Have you had challenges with rolling shutter? Do you have to plan your recordings in detail in a cinematography style, or is it quite simple to use the mirrorless combination of camera and lens? Did you need to invest in a specific type of tripod? I can't think of any way a gimbal would be useful in this situation (long lens).


QuoteQuote:
Look at and research Fuji XH1....Fuji XS10....XT4....all with varying degrees of stabilised sensors,also the XT3 is quite good. ETERNA is the film sim made for video.
OK, I have seen a video on YouTube which compared several cameras including the Fujifilm XT4 and the rolling shutter seemed minimal. However, the focal length used was quite short, and I haven't found much in the way of videos where people were using long focal lengths except for someone using a professional grade Canon DSLR with a 600mm lens. I'll continue to look at the XT4 - especially wrt lenses. Thanks for the suggestion.

---------- Post added 09-11-20 at 06:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
I also have experience with video and long lenses, but not on mirrorless. However, I have done a lot of research on the topic. The XT4 as recommended above is great, as is the GH5. In fact even the XT30 has minimal rolling shutter (you can look up tests on YouTube) and good 4K.
Thanks. I originally considered the GH5 but its AF has a poor reputation, and there's no obvious prospect of Panasonic releasing a successor. My existing camcorder is a Panasonic. I was considering the Sony A6600 which has amazing AF, but the Sony sensor has issues with rolling shutter. I quite like the idea of the Sony because it's more compact than either the Panasonic or Fuji, but if the video turns to jello with a long lens, it won't work for me.

11-09-2020, 02:10 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
What camera(s) and lenses did you use? What sort of things were you recording? Have you had challenges with rolling shutter?
XT3..XH1 mainly for video.I have Tamron G1 150/600(2kgs) and Sigma Sport 150/600(3.25kgs)

I do surfing mainly.Its slow action so RS hasnt been a problem.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Do you have to plan your recordings in detail in a cinematography style,
Not yet.
QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
or is it quite simple to use the mirrorless combination of camera and lens?
Yes.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Did you need to invest in a specific type of tripod?
I use a Manfrotto monopod that has 3 stabilising feet(A$200ish)

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
the Fujifilm XT4
Its slightly more advanced than XT3 but A$1000 more costly.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
I originally considered the GH5 but its AF has a poor reputation, and there's no obvious prospect of Panasonic releasing a successor.
Panasonic are developing the GH6 but they stick with contrast detect AF which can drift in and out of focus.Plenty of pros use it but they focus manually.

Some bridge cameras could suit what you want to do,Sony and Panasonic have their 1inch sensored models.Nikon has the P950/1000 models that ZOOOOOOOM a long way with a tiny sensor.Check out Fro's review of the P1000.

YouTube has many reviews of all the gear,some is helpful.
11-09-2020, 02:04 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Thanks. I originally considered the GH5 but its AF has a poor reputation, and there's no obvious prospect of Panasonic releasing a successor. My existing camcorder is a Panasonic. I was considering the Sony A6600 which has amazing AF, but the Sony sensor has issues with rolling shutter. I quite like the idea of the Sony because it's more compact than either the Panasonic or Fuji, but if the video turns to jello with a long lens, it won't work for me.
Have you looked into some of the later Olympus cameras? They use a different AF system that might be better for your needs. Also...it seems that tracking airplanes might not need the most advanced AF, or does it?
11-09-2020, 06:52 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
XT3..XH1 mainly for video.I have Tamron G1 150/600(2kgs) and Sigma Sport 150/600(3.25kgs). I do surfing mainly.Its slow action so RS hasnt been a problem. I use a Manfrotto monopod that has 3 stabilising feet(A$200ish). Its slightly more advanced than XT3 but A$1000 more costly.
Thanks for all the info! One of the key differences between the XT3 and XT4 seems to be the IBIS, but there's also a bigger battery and a different LCD screen mechanism. Both cameras apparently suffer from overheating. Have you experienced that with your XT3? I would imagine that for surfing you'd mainly be shooting early in the morning before the wind picks up.


QuoteQuote:
Panasonic are developing the GH6 but they stick with contrast detect AF which can drift in and out of focus.Plenty of pros use it but they focus manually. Some bridge cameras could suit what you want to do,Sony and Panasonic have their 1inch sensored models.Nikon has the P950/1000 models that ZOOOOOOOM a long way with a tiny sensor.Check out Fro's review of the P1000. YouTube has many reviews of all the gear,some is helpful.
Manual focus with the GH5 is one of the things I was referring to when using a "cinematography" style. Carefully planned and practised shots with careful focus transitions (or no change in focus at all). Since I generally want to use this second camera for video (the primary camera for stills being a Pentax), I wasn't looking at a bridge camera. I'd probably prefer to stick to a camcorder over a bridge camera because U find the ergonomics better with video and I'm more used to it. Thanks for the suggestion though.


QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
Have you looked into some of the later Olympus cameras? They use a different AF system that might be better for your needs. Also...it seems that tracking airplanes might not need the most advanced AF, or does it?
I've tried AFC on birds in flight and planes, and I haven't found it to work very will with the Pentax DSLRs I've tried (K7, K5iis and K3). I get a better hit rate just by half depressing the shutter then fully depressing it. A plane is a big target so I expected it to be easier to track, but even my Panasonic camcorder struggles at airshows. With birds, the camcorder is annoying because there's no choice of AF modes - I can't set it to centre spot to pick out a bird in the middle of trees or branches, and the camera generally focusses on the trees not the birds. I haven't looked at Olympus because it was reported that they were going to stop making cameras.

11-11-2020, 01:59 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Fuji XS10
The XS10 looks like it might actually be the best option. Cheaper, compact, IBIS, 4K and HD at 240fps. Same sensor as the XT4. But unlike the Sony, no prospect of an AF mount adapter to put my existing Pentax glass on it, which is a shame. Still, as a secondary camera and a 4K video device, it might work, along with at least one stabilised AF zoom lens...
11-11-2020, 02:53 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
no prospect of an AF mount adapter to put my existing Pentax glass on it,
Well a dumb adapter gives you manual focus,it was the original focus method!

How TELEphoto do you intend going?

Fuji has lots of AF adapters for Canon EFmount which has 3rd party support,so a vast amount of glass to choose from.Then there is the native glass which is ALL of a very high standard.Some of the Fuji glass is a hefty price,so an adapter opens up lots of saving opportunities.
11-11-2020, 03:08 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Hi All,

Does anyone have any experience with taking 4K video with long focal length lenses and mirrorless cameras? I'd like to get one for taking video of wildlife and airshows, but rolling shutter seems to be a big issue. At this stage I may have to give up and get a 4K camcorder instead, but I'd really like to be able to use a mirrorless for more quality and versatility - I do want to use it with wide lenses as well.
You can take a look at the table here:
Test : Rolling Shutter Werte von Blackmagic, Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic, Kinefinity und Sony: Neues Messverfahren - Erste
A newer R5 has a rolling shutter value of 10 ms in 4k24-60p, 8 ms in 4k120p.
11-11-2020, 04:08 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Well a dumb adapter gives you manual focus,it was the original focus method!
I know, but with glasses and no split image focussing screens, manual focus is generally a pain, especially when photographing birds and planes. For cine-style video it would be fine, but I was hoping to be able to use the Pentax DFA 150-450 lens with its AF.


QuoteQuote:
How TELEphoto do you intend going?
See above. I guess I would have to buy another AF lens for the Fuji mount, or a Canon mount lens with an adapter, which would be a shame.


QuoteQuote:
Fuji has lots of AF adapters for Canon EFmount which has 3rd party support,so a vast amount of glass to choose from.Then there is the native glass which is ALL of a very high standard.Some of the Fuji glass is a hefty price,so an adapter opens up lots of saving opportunities.
Thanks. The XS-10 with a 16-80 lens would cover most situations other than telephoto, so I will give it serious consideration - versus a 4K Panasonic camcorder.


QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
You can take a look at the table here:
Test : Rolling Shutter Werte von Blackmagic, Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic, Kinefinity und Sony: Neues Messverfahren - Erste
A newer R5 has a rolling shutter value of 10 ms in 4k24-60p, 8 ms in 4k120p.
Thanks for the link. I'll have to figure out what the numbers mean, but if I am reading the table correctly, the XT3 which uses the same sensor as the XS10 and XT4 only gets rolling shutter at 4K S35 crop?
11-11-2020, 06:04 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Thanks for the link. I'll have to figure out what the numbers mean, but if I am reading the table correctly, the XT3 which uses the same sensor as the XS10 and XT4 only gets rolling shutter at 4K S35 crop?
  1. All current hybrid cameras "get rolling shutter", because they have not global shutter electronics like old CCD sensors had.
  2. The column the XT3 is listed in is simply because the XT3 only has a "APS"(C) = "Super35" format sensor, while the listed FF cameras have the choice of FF or APS framing
  3. You want the smallest numbers you can get in that table, since a camera with 25 ms rolling shutter versus one with 20 ms is -25% slower and that much more likely to show deformed images of fast moving subjects.
11-11-2020, 06:36 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
  1. All current hybrid cameras "get rolling shutter", because they have not global shutter electronics like old CCD sensors had.
  2. The column the XT3 is listed in is simply because the XT3 only has a "APS"(C) = "Super35" format sensor, while the listed FF cameras have the choice of FF or APS framing
  3. You want the smallest numbers you can get in that table, since a camera with 25 ms rolling shutter versus one with 20 ms is -25% slower and that much more likely to show deformed images of fast moving subjects.
OK so the XT3 has half the rolling shutter of the Sony a6600 (20ms vs 40ms) and the GH5 is a 25% improvement over the XT3 (15ms vs 20ms).
11-11-2020, 09:06 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
the Pentax DFA 150-450 lens with its AF.
Rule $ony out with the adapter,that Monster is only tuned to do AF with F and FA lenses AFAIK for stills.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
I guess I would have to buy another AF lens for the Fuji mount, or a Canon mount lens with an adapter, which would be a shame.
The cost of XS10 with !6-80 and Fringer adapter(most popular) with 150-600 will far surpass the K-3 mk3.You will be able to use the 150/450 with 1.4X TC.That will be enough reach for most of what you want to do.The Fuji 4K performance is well known,K3/3 is unknown but should be available very soon.
11-11-2020, 02:42 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Rule $ony out with the adapter,that Monster is only tuned to do AF with F and FA lenses AFAIK for stills.
Fair enough. I was mainly thinking of it in terms of stills, though. I didn't really expect AFC through an adapter with video.

QuoteQuote:
The cost of XS10 with !6-80 and Fringer adapter(most popular) with 150-600 will far surpass the K-3 mk3.You will be able to use the 150/450 with 1.4X TC.That will be enough reach for most of what you want to do.The Fuji 4K performance is well known,K3/3 is unknown but should be available very soon.
The K3iii won't be until February, and I plan to buy it as soon as I can get my hands on it. I don't expect the video capabilities of the K3iii to be of interest based on the video provided on existing Pentax cameras. However I do expect the K3iii to produce better stills than the K3 which I currently use, with better AF and image quality. I'm not looking to replace the DSLR, otherwise I wouldn't be looking at compact mirrorless cameras. I bear with the EV on my camcorder but it will take a lot of improvement in display technology before I'd lose interest in TTL cameras.
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