[Angelic Layer]

I have seen Leica R lenses selling at half the price of their M mount counterparts, bodies not much expensive than a high end Pentax or Nikon.
Are Leica SLR's no good since there isn't much user base for them, or are they worthwhile for getting into the Leica experience at a lower cost?

[zapp]

Leica R was a nice system with many great lenses. The good stuff still sells for serious bucks.
The Leica feeling is connected to the M system. Small cameras that make almost no noise, non-retro focus lens design. M-mount since 1954.
I loved my R6.2 as well as the R glass. R8/9 are really Leica designs. R4-7 are Minolta based.
Have fun.

[TomB_tx]

After Leica discontinued the R line, they sold off ALL parts to a single company, and Leica specialists are now unable to get repair parts. The R models based on Minolta designs are not aging well, and problems are common. One of the top USA Leica repairers (DAG) says he will no longer repair R bodies, as too often they fail for unrelated issues after servicing them. I’ve used an R4 - R6 since about 1986, and have gone through 4 or 5 bodies recently trying to keep one working. The R6 shutter is all mechanical, so may be more reliable than the other models, but metering may be an issue.
On the other hand my original Leicaflex and SL and SL2 models are still doing fine. These were original Leitz designs before the Minolta models. Meter CdS cell aging can still be an issue with these.

[stevebrot]

R-series Leica SLRs are prone to the same problems as their Minolta-label cousins, that being the the usual electronic concerns and lack of parts for repair. If one is interested in shooting R-series lenses on Pentax, Leitax mount conversion is an option for many lenses.

Leica & Pentax & Nikon | Leitax


Steve

(...no relation to Leitax...)

[lesmore49]

I don't have any of the Leica SLR models, but I do have my old screw mount Leica 11F. Have had for over 40 years, bout it used and it will soon be 70 years old. I use it and it has never given me a problem.

I would consider an older Leica rangefinder 35mm body in good condition , either screwmount or bayonet mount.

I'm not a Leica expert, just a Leica owner/user. There are more knowledgeable Leica people on this forum and I'm sure they could tell you if getting a rangefinder is a better idea.

[LesDMess]

How many rolls did it take to get used to loading film into your Leica IIF?

[lesmore49]

How many rolls did it take to get used to loading film into your Leica IIF?

One. But I'm a fast learner.

I bought the camera from a Leica dealer and the shop owner got a roll and went step by step....slowly to show me the intricacies of loading my rangefinder. You're right, loading it is unnecessarily complicated IMO. Although I am used to the routine.

But it is the only camera I have or have used that I need scissors to load the body with film. But once you learn how to load it and learn how to use a separate hand held light meter with it...it becomes second nature.

I seem to gravitate towards products that are unnecessarily complicated. I also have a '78 Yamaha SR 500 motorcycle. It is a big single cylinder, kick start only and finicky.

In fact it has 5 pages of starting instructions, some of those five pages are there to explain what to do to start it if it doesn't fire right away. But as with the Leica , I've got the knack now,

I like products that require more than the average input. I occasionally use my hand held light meter to determine manually set camera settings on my fully automatic K1.

Because that's the way I roll.

[TomB_tx]

Loading Leica and similar cameras was much easier when I started using them, as back then all commercial 35mm film came with a “long leader” (4 1/2”) already trimmed on the roll. Leica was the first (~1924) 35mm on the market, and was about the most popular until after WW2. Many others copied the Leica loading system - including Canon throughout the 1950s, so film was provided that needed no trimming.
I remember when I first bought a roll with the modern short leader: I thought it must have been a manufacturing error.
My oldest Leica was made in 1929. I have others from the 1930s & 40s, and all are still working fine.

[lesmore49]

Loading Leica and similar cameras was much easier when I started using them, as back then all commercial 35mm film came with a “long leader” (4 1/2”) already trimmed on the roll. Leica was the first (~1924) 35mm on the market, and was about the most popular until after WW2. Many others copied the Leica loading system - including Canon throughout the 1950s, so film was provided that needed no trimming.
I remember when I first bought a roll with the modern short leader: I thought it must have been a manufacturing error.
My oldest Leica was made in 1929. I have others from the 1930s & 40s, and all are still working fine.

I didn't know all that stuff, some, but not all.

That '29 Leica is very old, worth a bundle I bet...and more importantly what a interesting collector's item.

The camera store that I bought my '51 Leica and '40's Leitz Elmar 50 collapsible lens from back in '81, was a long time camera store (established 1897) and long time Leica dealer. Behind the counter on the wall was a very old Leica poster, showing a guy dressed in plus fours, Germanic looking hat, on what appeared to be an Alpine ledge...with a Leica RF and I think a 135mm lens. The ad...looked like it was from the early '30's... and was touting the new telephoto lens...can't recall whether it was a 135mm or shorter, but what a photo in itself, One that I wouldn't mind having for display purposes in my house.

This camera shop had been used for decades and when I would walk into it, I felt like I was going back in time. It was located opposite the main newspaper building of a paper of record that went back to the early 1870's and aside from Leicas, also used to sell Rollei, Mamiya, etc. Catered to pros and enthusiasts. Gone now, Shortly after I bought the camera, the owner died, business shut down, then building bulldozed over a a new downtown development took place.

[Kevin B123]

I also have a '78 Yamaha SR 500 motorcycle.

OT: Hateful bike. I had one back in the day, could ride it for maybe 25 minutes before I had to stop and get my fingers and bum back from the vibration. I never could restart a hot engine, bloody thing.

[stevebrot]

Many others copied the Leica loading system - including Canon throughout the 1950s, so film was provided that needed no trimming.

Significantly, Canon went to hinged back with the VT in 1956.


Steve

[lesmore49]

OT: Hateful bike. I had one back in the day, could ride it for maybe 25 minutes before I had to stop and get my fingers and bum back from the vibration. I never could restart a hot engine, bloody thing.

Took me two weeks to get the knack of kick starting it. I love mine and I've had it since 1978.

I have another motorcycle you wouldn't like. A '67 Matchless G15 CS Scrambler with a Norton 750cc engine. Twin carb, sports cam, hemi combustion chambers, low scrambler gearing, has skid plates...it vibrates, lunges when you accelerate, is raucous, comparatively primitive to modern bikes. Etc.

But boy what an exciting ride.

[TomB_tx]

Significantly, Canon went to hinged back with the VT in 1956.


Steve

And then people realized that the VT could not use Canon reloadable cassettes, as it had no baseplate key to open them. So they belatedly added a key for the cassette, but it took a new style cassette as the original mechanism required the bottom baseplate to engage it.

I have a couple VT (early and late) VI-T, and a couple of the L models that kept a thumb lever instead of the bottom trigger to advance film. I think the IVSB2 (just before the VT) was the best made Canon - and I'd say workmanship was better than the Leica IIIf of that time.

[LesDMess]

Significantly, Canon went to hinged back with the VT in 1956.

Steve

And yet Nikon still didn't with their first SLR release in 1959 even after Pentax released their first SLR two years earlier . . .

[LesDMess]

R8/9 are really Leica designs. R4-7 are Minolta based.

As far as I know - and corroborated by this source Photoethnography.com's Leica R-Series SLRs, only the R3 and R4 are from Minolta collaboration. The Minolta equivalents are XE and XD respectively and are excellent camera bodies. Just as important, Minolta lenses are also excellent performers. May have something to do with the fact that Minolta was only one of two camera companies in Japan - and one of very few in the world, that make their own optical glass.