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02-03-2021, 04:11 AM - 1 Like   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think people understand. The question isn't whether Nikon can release more cameras. Olympus released lots and lots of cameras. The question is whether they can sell enough of those cameras (and lenses for them) to turn on a profit -- particularly considering the large investment in R and D it has taken to release those cameras and lenses.

Continuing in the SLR market in many ways would have been the safe way to go. Less investment, solid existing base of users. Releasing a MILC line up with a new mount works if you can convince people that their F mount lenses were no good and that they really need to pay 50 percent more to get the Z mount version of their lenses. It feels like that aspect of things is what has not really panned out. F mount shooters are actually pretty happy with their F mount lenses and the idea that they could get a lens that is 10 percent sharper in the corners for a lot more money doesn't really get them to drop these lenses into the shopping cart.
I agree; but on the long term, however, it makes sense for Nikon to go mirrorless - because they're trying to play the same game as Canon, and in the future it seems only the mirrorless will allow them to do so (market share, blah blah blah).
DSLRs are fine, but they might've got pushed into a niche; this is fine with Pentax, not so with Nikon.

02-03-2021, 04:57 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
If it was a 24-200 I probably would rarely ever bother bringing an ILC camera with me.
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
The gap keeps closing.
The gap is already closed for internet images. For internet / social media, smartphone is the best, instant upload-sharing. Does Z5 have internet connection for automatic uploads to facebook, instagram..?

---------- Post added 03-02-21 at 13:04 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree; but on the long term, however, it makes sense for Nikon to go mirrorless - because they're trying to play the same game as Canon, and in the future it seems only the mirrorless will allow them to do so (market share, blah blah blah).
Lens sales ran out of steam for DSLRs, DSLR users had a set of lenses , they only bought camera upgrades but no new lenses. Mirrorless is good for business, because they can sell a lot of new lenses, in addition to the cameras. Canon and Nikon joined the mirrorless move to resurrect revenues from lenses. The condition to sell more lenses for mirrorless was to change that lens mount, and they did. If Canon and Nikon didn't make a mirrorless lineup, they revenue situation would be much worse.
02-03-2021, 06:58 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The gap is already closed for internet images. For internet / social media, smartphone is the best, instant upload-sharing. Does Z5 have internet connection for automatic uploads to facebook, instagram..?

---------- Post added 03-02-21 at 13:04 ----------

Lens sales ran out of steam for DSLRs, DSLR users had a set of lenses , they only bought camera upgrades but no new lenses. Mirrorless is good for business, because they can sell a lot of new lenses, in addition to the cameras. Canon and Nikon joined the mirrorless move to resurrect revenues from lenses. The condition to sell more lenses for mirrorless was to change that lens mount, and they did. If Canon and Nikon didn't make a mirrorless lineup, they revenue situation would be much worse.
The Z5 won’t go direct to facebook/Instagram that I know of, but I’ve deleted all social media accounts a few years ago. Snapbridge will automatically transfer smaller file size images (2 mp) as you shoot so they’re in your photo’s album on the phone automatically if you want. But that tends to clutter it up really fast. You can also just select them on the rear screen and send. The Bluetooth connection is always on and activates/connects wifi as needed automatically in the background. It’s pretty low energy use. I think Canon will auto upload the full size jpeg’s if you want but they both work pretty similar when connected to a phone. It is very useful for sharing things quickly. With the EVF you can dial in what you want in the JPEG’s pretty easy then the editing is done in advance. These Z camera’s have a lot more preset color profiles than the older Nikon’s as well. I find that getting the look you want in camera works really well then using the default apple photo editor in the phone to tweak anything else and it’s done for the most part. I still takes RAW+JPEG but only if I want the RAW for some specific editing latter. I’m pretty happy with the Nikon JPEGS SOOC for most uses, which is mainly sharing with family and friends.

With older camera’s I would have to manually start the connection by turning the phone on and going to wifi and activating it. Then going to the phone’s wifi and finding the connection and starting that, then to the app. Snapbridge just does all that without the hassle. You can also just activate it in the app with the camera off, say in your bag, without messing with the camera from your phone which takes much of the hassle out. Previously with all those steps it was often faster to just pull the SD card and use an SD reader for iphone or ipad. That is still the faster method with RAW files as wifi is not as fast as hardwire for a large amount of images if you need to transfer them all for some reason.

I use airplay and the default photo gallery if I want to flip though and look at them latter. I find that more enjoyable then the computer screen now.

I use iCloud photo groups now instead of social media so the photo sharing is direct to the audience specifically and private. A lot of my relatives are off social media at this point and that keeps the photo’s of kids etc private amongst family. So when I go for a hike for the day, or out on the motorcycle I’ll take a bunch of images through the day then just pull the 5 good ones or so for a quick photo story of the day and that gets shared in a specific iCloud group of friends and family that are interested in that. Ours is called Moto photo for the motorcycle trips for example.

---------- Post added 02-03-2021 at 08:25 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
All of them were obvious to me, and that's using half a screen for each photo...
The iPhone absolutely wrecks facial textures when compared to the Canon, they look unnaturally smoothed out*. It works very well for landscapes and hey, without a side to side comparison it's fine for portraits too, most people will be very pleased with the quality of the images. It's still incredible how much IQ can be packed in a smartphone, of course, and phones are indeed getting better faster than ILCs.

*And the highlights on the skin look very weird to me, like the software tries to color-correct them or something...

---------- Post added 02-03-21 at 04:08 AM ----------



That's what I think as well, the Z lenses are excellent but if I had a Nikon F-mount 20/1.8 I wouldn't drop another 1000€ on a slightly better Z-mount option... or heck, the 50/1.8 IMO should have been much more compact, it's nice that it's an optically excellent normal and it's half the weight of a super-50/1.4 like the DFA* or the Sigma Art, but it's not three times as good as the humble 50/1.8G I'd say.
I got all the iphone shots correct but I own that camera and have done a lot of comparisons against my own full frames. Conclusion for me is 9/10 wouldn’t notice the difference for general sharing. And that’s the problem for companys that make camera’s. There’s a difference but the smartphone images are pretty close and most aren’t that picky. It’s surpassed the typical point and shoot of the past and somewhere in between now.

I’m in that same boat with the Z lenses now that I have both. And I won’t be buying them quickly as your 100% correct in the F mount works fine. What’s drawing me to the Z lenses is actually the really good weather sealing. I have 3 of them now mostly because of that. I hike and ride motorcycles all over so that’s important to me. I want to take the camera out and not care if it gets a little wet and get the shots for the trip, not be all stressed out because my F mount lens has zero weather sealing. It’s what originally was the deciding factor to buy Pentax. Now the Z system is like Pentax for weather sealing but without the AF limitations. I suspect many will do what I did and buy a few Z lenses and then use the FTZ a lot with existing F mount glass. I basically filled the gaps in my prime lineup with Z glass and bought the 24-200 (which i love that lens). The Z glass is really nice, but I’m not really that pixel peeper type and the G lenses are good enough as well imo, they just have no sealing.

I think the ultimate threat to ALL major camera manufacturers is they relied on point and shoot to support ILC, going waaaay back they’ve done this. That market is gone. DSLR’s were mostly APS-C 500 dollar cameras because “it takes a better shot in auto then my point and shoot/cell phone”. Except they don’t now. Now they all have to exist at drastically smaller sizes or close the doors. And smartphones are going to continue to whittle away at the user group as they keep getting better. They’ll have full range zooms here pretty soon, and will work for action, all that is coming, that and the image quality will just keep improving as they get better at computational techniques. If the major plays don’t adopt computational and use that larger sensor to make a clearly better image automatically in one click, they’ll end up being a tiny market of professionals and hardcore enthusiasts in the end, a fraction of the market. Many won’t survive that process of shrink.

The iPhone 12 is a threshold camera for me, it’s one I’m really using often. Something I never did in the past, because at it’s focal lengths it’s good. It works in the darkest of conditions, AF works in the dark, the RAW files are great. It’s a problem for all the camera companys. And it’s only going to get harder for them as more cross the threshold and just use the phone.

---------- Post added 02-03-2021 at 08:34 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree; but on the long term, however, it makes sense for Nikon to go mirrorless - because they're trying to play the same game as Canon, and in the future it seems only the mirrorless will allow them to do so (market share, blah blah blah).
DSLRs are fine, but they might've got pushed into a niche; this is fine with Pentax, not so with Nikon.
I think they have no choice as the APS-C market is pretty much dead/dying fast and that was the life support line. Point and shoots, dead. All that supported the Full Frame lines which are a fraction of the sales. They’ll end up a much smaller leaner company or they’ll close the doors.

All of these company’s need to utilize computational and have an auto setting that can create a better image than an iphone with no effort. And that’s the problem now, they don’t and they’re going to shrink for it. Iphone gets a look that takes a ton of post processing normally, without any effort. HDR modes in DSLR/MILC just don’t compare right now. If they can use the smartphone makers tricks with a much better sensor and it clearly looks better for instagram or photo’s of your dog then that would at least slow the bleed for APS-C as in the end people want the best picture with no effort. At least the bulk of sales which disappeared to smartphones because of that.

Samsungs already working on AI that learns the “look” you prefer for images and automatically tailors your shots that way.

Last edited by LeeRunge; 02-03-2021 at 07:36 AM.
02-05-2021, 05:20 AM   #79
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Nikon's financial reporting for FY2021/Q3 (October-December 2020) shows that, for this quarter compared to the same quarter a year ago, they managed to limit the decline in Imaging Products revenue to 25% despite a drop in the number of cameras and lenses sold of more than 50% (1).

How did this happen? Quite simply because the average price of equipment sold increased by more than 50%.


(1)
  • Imaging Products revenue: 70bn --> 52.3bn = minus 25%
  • ILCs: 580,000 --> 280,000 = minus 52%
  • Interchangeable lenses: 950,000 --> 470,000 = minus 51%
  • Compact cameras: 230,000 --> 80,000 = minus 65%


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