[clackers]

Well this is what it is. Not going to get much more expensive that that thou. But we will see.

Yes, it's very disappointing.

Everyone's needs are different but if I had $6000, five of it it would go into medium format, a 645Z would be my preference.

I would continue to use my K-1 for sports and action:

---

Last edited by clackers; 02-11-2021 at 11:02 PM.

[repaap]

Yes, it's very disappointing.

Everyone's needs are different but if I had $6000, five of it it would go into medium format, a 645Z would be my preference.

I would continue to use my K-1 for sports and action:

I have to say that The gap between mirrorless and DSLR are not that big. Especially with Nikon(I know not Sony), and Pentax new model and prpably models after that are going to lift it too closer to Nikon which is really good. Then unless one need crazy fast FPS and that eye AF(really) there is not actually that much sense to make that extra purchase. Now there are couple IFs.

Yes. Canon seems to be in lead now. And the next one (coming soon?) will eliminate problems of previous ones and give increased(small, but still) performance.

Sony promises the same.

Nikon. We will get there!

And what is crazy is that MILC people buy it. This is where the future is! Buy now and update all of your lenses or you will miss the boat! You don’t want to do that!

Still people have perfectly capable gear already. I’m thinking of buying that K-3mk3 thou. And FF with tech introduced in K-3. But I might also sell FF and get 645 instead. I just took my damaged old ME super with M50/1.4 out and looked through VF. I was thrilled and I felt like want to go out and take pictures.

If new Pentax cameras will give to me that feeling and actually give great AF(as they promise) it is not much more I want.

But this thread is not about that. The whole mirrorless thing is far from there.

[biz-engineer]

Everyone's needs are different but if I had $6000, five of it it would go into medium format, a 645Z would be my preference.I would continue to use my K-1 for sports and action

I have two K1 bodies, 15-30, 24-70, 28-105, 70-200 150-450 and 3 FA primes. I recently purchased a couple of new D-LI90 batteries to backup my 2015/2016 batteries that have lost a little bit of capacity. The K1s , 70-200 and 150-450 will stay for unlimited length of time (until they stop working), they are great lenses on K1, and they work very well even for some actions shots. I'd have a hard time to sell the 28-105 because it's small, sharp, quick focus. But I could easily replace the DFA15-30 and my copy of DFA 24-70 is good but not excellent IMO. For UWA I prefer a prime, I made a mistake to buy the 15-30, been looking forward to a Pentax D-FA 21 but it's not coming and I don't count on Pentax anymore as they've postponed releases so much over the last few years. So if I was going to upgrade to MF, I'd cover UWA and FF 24-70 with it, and maybe buy the famous Pentax D-FA*85 for use on my K-1. So MF 20 -> 70mm, and FF 85mm 1.4 to 450 f5.6 . Not interested in Sony A1 at all, I have passed the age of spray and pray, I take less photos now but much better ones.

[Rondec]

I have two K1 bodies, 15-30, 24-70, 28-105, 70-200 150-450 and 3 FA primes. I recently purchased a couple of new D-LI90 batteries to backup my 2015/2016 batteries that have lost a little bit of capacity. The K1s , 70-200 and 150-450 will stay for unlimited length of time (until they stop working), they are great lenses on K1, and they work very well even for some actions shots. I'd have a hard time to sell the 28-105 because it's small, sharp, quick focus. But I could easily replace the DFA15-30 and my copy of DFA 24-70 is good but not excellent IMO. For UWA I prefer a prime, I made a mistake to buy the 15-30, been looking forward to a Pentax D-FA 21 but it's not coming and I don't count on Pentax anymore as they've postponed releases so much over the last few years. So if I was going to upgrade to MF, I'd cover UWA and FF 24-70 with it, and maybe buy the famous Pentax D-FA*85 for use on my K-1. So MF 20 -> 70mm, and FF 85mm 1.4 to 450 f5.6 . Not interested in Sony A1 at all, I have passed the age of spray and pray, I take less photos now but much better ones.

I think the DFA 21 is coming, I just have learned that Pentax is trying to teach us all patience. But I really do expect the DFA 21 and the DFA 70-300 by some time next year.

I think with the A1, it is a small number of photographers who really need its features. Just considering Sony models, what percent of photographers would be satisfied with an A7 III, or A7r IV, or A9 and how many would need the specific features the A1 offers? Considering what sort of frame rates we got buy with up till about five years ago, I am guessing that most photographers could get by with a cheaper model of camera. I suppose if they have the money it is no big deal, but I just feel as though we have gotten into pretty rarefied air here.

[Dan Rentea]

Yes, it's very disappointing.

Everyone's needs are different but if I had $6000, five of it it would go into medium format, a 645Z would be my preference.

I would continue to use my K-1 for sports and action:

You're confusing the target of A1, a camera which is most related to this kind of photographers (see the links below), who make a living from action images. Sony A1, Canon 1Dx or Nikon D6 costs 6000$+ for a reason, which has nothing to do with shooting action as a hobby that can be done with pretty much any camera available on market, from Oly E-M1, to Canon RP, to Pentax K3, etc. Tony Northrup or DPreview can say anything they want regarding cameras and lenses, good or bad, but the ones who make a living from images like the ones in the links I posted are not the target of the popular youtubers.

Sure, we have different choices if someone shows up at our door with 6500$ for us to spend as we want, but again, we are not make a living from shooting sports at international events. By the time you take 2-3 bursts of 8-10 images with K1, clear the buffer and send them to reviewer, the same bursts from a 1Dx, D6 or A1 are already online and shared by viewers. That's one of the differences between cameras like A1 and cameras like K1, D780, 5D Mark IV...

As long as we will see A1 in the hands of pro sport photographers, Tony Northrup, DPreview or Jared Polin can say anything they want because it will be irrelevant, mostly because they are far far away when comes to really pushing these sport cameras in real life.

ALBUM | Alessandro Trovati

Home - Michael Willson | Sports Photographer | Chief Photographer AFL Photos | Melbourne | Swan Hill | Australia | michaelwillson.com

[Serkevan]

You're confusing the target of A1, a camera which is most related to this kind of photographers (see the links below), who make a living from action images. Sony A1, Canon 1Dx or Nikon D6 costs 6000$+ for a reason, which has nothing to do with shooting action as a hobby that can be done with pretty much any camera available on market, from Oly E-M1, to Canon RP, to Pentax K3, etc. Tony Northrup or DPreview can say anything they want regarding cameras and lenses, good or bad, but the ones who make a living from images like the ones in the links I posted are not the target of the popular youtubers.

Sure, we have different choices if someone shows up at our door with 6500$ for us to spend as we want, but again, we are not make a living from shooting sports at international events. By the time you take 2-3 bursts of 8-10 images with K1, clear the buffer and send them to reviewer, the same bursts from a 1Dx, D6 or A1 are already online and shared by viewers. That's one of the differences between cameras like A1 and cameras like K1, D780, 5D Mark IV...

As long as we will see A1 in the hands of pro sport photographers, Tony Northrup, DPreview or Jared Polin can say anything they want because it will be irrelevant, mostly because they are far far away when comes to really pushing these sport cameras in real life.

ALBUM | Alessandro Trovati

Home - Michael Willson | Sports Photographer | Chief Photographer AFL Photos | Melbourne | Swan Hill | Australia | michaelwillson.com

Yup... I wouldn't even be surprised if the A1 was made for journalism companies rather than freelancing photographers (who might very well use the A9 depending on their finances). I'd wager that Associated Press is gonna want a bunch of these cameras for major sport events. It's a camera made explicitly for getting the "money shot".

[biz-engineer]

You're confusing the target of A1, a camera which is most related to this kind of photographers (see the links below), who make a living from action images.

Here the A1 is being promoted as consumer camera. If they'd be selling it only to professionals, they'd never make any money, even at $6500. We have a community of Sony aficionados (and fanboys) who buy the latest camera made by Sony, and that's why it's easy to find the previous model for sale used, there is a shelf full of used Sony cameras and it's easily the largest shelf of used camera of the entire shop. My criteria to know if it's for professional or for hobby: if the product is being reviewed by DPReview and sold by Amazon, it's aimed at hobbyists. Even when I look at the medium format section of DPReview, 99.9999% of members are hobby photographers and sometimes even beginners, guys having bought a Fuji X and a 18-55 kit lens asking for what lenses to buy for their pre-ordered GFX100S. It's interesting! Phase One, on the other end, is practically absent of forums.

[Dan Rentea]

Here the A1 is being promoted as consumer camera. If they'd be selling it only to professionals, they'd never make any money, even at $6500. We have a community of Sony aficionados (and fanboys) who buy the latest camera made by Sony, and that's why it's easy to find the previous model for sale used, there is a shelf full of used Sony cameras and it's easily the largest shelf of used camera of the entire shop. My criteria to know if it's for professional or for hobby: if the product is being reviewed by DPReview and sold by Amazon, it's aimed at hobbyists. Even when I look at the medium format section of DPReview, 99.9999% of members are hobby photographers and sometimes even beginners, guys having bought a Fuji X and a 18-55 kit lens asking for what lenses to buy for their pre-ordered GFX100S. It's interesting! Phase One, on the other end, is practically absent of forums.

A1, 1Dx, D6 are not consumer cameras. Sure, there will always be hobby photographers buying this sort of cameras, as we see Leica cameras for example being bought by wealthy people with minimal knowledge about photography. But this doesn't change the point that these cameras have a specific target in mind. Manufacturers will advertise their cameras for as many categories of photographers they can, in order to make money... A see photographers shooting weddings with Phase One, but this doesn't change the point that such a camera is aimed at top level commercial photographers. We see above a photographer shooting action with K1, but this doesn't mean that K1 is a sport camera.

[beholder3]

A1, 1Dx, D6 are not consumer cameras.

They are nothing but consumer cameras.

While there might be the handful of commercial photographers who also buy it, they simply are completely irrelevant in this market (outside of a handful worldwide famous enough being used as posterboys to attract the consumers).

these cameras have a specific target in mind

They all have the target to make money. And commercial photographers simply have so tiny economic clout, that the main audience for all these cameras is wealthy consumers. The consumers are the majority and they pay the bills.

If the next Zombie-apocalypse virus would wipe out all commercial photographers on the world, the makers wouldn't even notice and they wouldn't change their product portfolio one iota.

[Dan Rentea]

They are nothing but consumer cameras.

While there might be the handful of commercial photographers who also buy it, they simply are completely irrelevant in this market (outside of a handful worldwide famous enough being used as posterboys to attract the consumers).



They all have the target to make money. And commercial photographers simply have so tiny economic clout, that the main audience for all these cameras is wealthy consumers. The consumers are the majority and they pay the bills.

If the next Zombie-apocalypse virus would wipe out all commercial photographers on the world, the makers wouldn't even notice and they wouldn't change their product portfolio one iota.

Agree to disagree. I see cameras like 6D, D610, D780 or A7 III as consumer cameras. I see cameras like R5, D850, Z7 or A7R IV to be oriented to above average photographers (financially speaking) and A1, 1Dx, D6 oriented to a much smaller audience with specific needs.

Same with medium format. You have consumer cameras like 645z, Fuji GFX and then you have those 30000$ Phase One and Hasselblad cameras oriented to photographers with specific needs.

[repaap]

You're confusing the target of A1, a camera which is most related to this kind of photographers (see the links below), who make a living from action images. Sony A1, Canon 1Dx or Nikon D6 costs 6000$+ for a reason, which has nothing to do with shooting action as a hobby that can be done with pretty much any camera available on market, from Oly E-M1, to Canon RP, to Pentax K3, etc. Tony Northrup or DPreview can say anything they want regarding cameras and lenses, good or bad, but the ones who make a living from images like the ones in the links I posted are not the target of the popular youtubers.

Sure, we have different choices if someone shows up at our door with 6500$ for us to spend as we want, but again, we are not make a living from shooting sports at international events. By the time you take 2-3 bursts of 8-10 images with K1, clear the buffer and send them to reviewer, the same bursts from a 1Dx, D6 or A1 are already online and shared by viewers. That's one of the differences between cameras like A1 and cameras like K1, D780, 5D Mark IV...

As long as we will see A1 in the hands of pro sport photographers, Tony Northrup, DPreview or Jared Polin can say anything they want because it will be irrelevant, mostly because they are far far away when comes to really pushing these sport cameras in real life.

ALBUM | Alessandro Trovati

Home - Michael Willson | Sports Photographer | Chief Photographer AFL Photos | Melbourne | Swan Hill | Australia | michaelwillson.com

This is true. And that is where A1 will shine, no matter what. I’d aattohartaus it propably will be very good in many other things too, but it would be waste of money to buy this camera unless one is shooting sports or something similar.

[ffking]

I just have learned that Pentax is trying to teach us all patience.

I don't think that they've fully grasped how old their average user is - patience is one thing, wondering whether you'll live to see it is another

[LeeRunge]

I think the DFA 21 is coming, I just have learned that Pentax is trying to teach us all patience. But I really do expect the DFA 21 and the DFA 70-300 by some time next year.

I think with the A1, it is a small number of photographers who really need its features. Just considering Sony models, what percent of photographers would be satisfied with an A7 III, or A7r IV, or A9 and how many would need the specific features the A1 offers? Considering what sort of frame rates we got buy with up till about five years ago, I am guessing that most photographers could get by with a cheaper model of camera. I suppose if they have the money it is no big deal, but I just feel as though we have gotten into pretty rarefied air here.

I can see the A1 being worth it for professional sports photographers who will be using the smartphone attached and uploading shots in realtime to editors at high frame rates to get more chances for a great shot. But as you said for normal people, I think the new K3-3, D500, Z6ii R6 would probably be fine for fast moving stuff in general. Or if you just are photographing joggers or trotting dogs or whatever most anything recent will work for those subjects.

That A1 and the R5 as well are kinda niche bleeding edge if your profession depends on it or you have loads of money to burn.

With my Pentax’s I really just had a couple situations that drove me crazy, this is the with the K-3, I haven’t used the KP or K-1’s so I don’t know if they greatly improved. One was my dogs at full sprint, I would get some but a ton of out of focus as the AF-C was pretty inconsistent. I actually relied more on anticipating where they were going and what i wanted and then prefocusing on that location iand getting a burst as they went though. Same for birds. In comparison my Nikon D750 with 3D tracking or the Z5 in AF-C setup similarly just gets keepers as you track along. But for everything else the K-3 gets the job done. I think I had a compounded amount of irritation going from K-7, K-5, K-3 with constant promises of improved AF-C and while watching Nikon’s system get drastically better when the K-1 came along and I needed to buy all new lenses for full frame coverage, plus the want for a 150-600 that was affordable, that crossed the threshold to get into Nikon gear for me.

I know different people have different needs/demands on cameras but that was the specific circumstances that got me drifting away from Pentax. Had the K-1 or KP had D-750 level AF-C I would have bought them.

I’m very curious if the K-3 iii AF-C actually makes a leap and is on par with something like the D-500, I’m very doubtful but I hope so. If it gets to D-750 level with that frame rate it’ll be an excellent camera though and really you won’t need anything more if the lens motors can keep up in the lenses you choose.

[Rondec]

I can see the A1 being worth it for professional sports photographers who will be using the smartphone attached and uploading shots in realtime to editors at high frame rates to get more chances for a great shot. But as you said for normal people, I think the new K3-3, D500, Z6ii R6 would probably be fine for fast moving stuff in general. Or if you just are photographing joggers or trotting dogs or whatever most anything recent will work for those subjects.

That A1 and the R5 as well are kinda niche bleeding edge if your profession depends on it or you have loads of money to burn.

With my Pentax’s I really just had a couple situations that drove me crazy, this is the with the K-3, I haven’t used the KP or K-1’s so I don’t know if they greatly improved. One was my dogs at full sprint, I would get some but a ton of out of focus as the AF-C was pretty inconsistent. I actually relied more on anticipating where they were going and what i wanted and then prefocusing on that location iand getting a burst as they went though. Same for birds. In comparison my Nikon D750 with 3D tracking or the Z5 in AF-C setup similarly just gets keepers as you track along. But for everything else the K-3 gets the job done. I think I had a compounded amount of irritation going from K-7, K-5, K-3 with constant promises of improved AF-C and while watching Nikon’s system get drastically better when the K-1 came along and I needed to buy all new lenses for full frame coverage, plus the want for a 150-600 that was affordable, that crossed the threshold to get into Nikon gear for me.

I know different people have different needs/demands on cameras but that was the specific circumstances that got me drifting away from Pentax. Had the K-1 or KP had D-750 level AF-C I would have bought them.

I’m very curious if the K-3 iii AF-C actually makes a leap and is on par with something like the D-500, I’m very doubtful but I hope so. If it gets to D-750 level with that frame rate it’ll be an excellent camera though and really you won’t need anything more if the lens motors can keep up in the lenses you choose.

How many high end sports photo-journalists are there? I guarantee that the majority of the people who buy this camera will be wealthy hobby photographers. Which is fine. I guess.

It has been 6 years since Sports Illustrated laid off all of their photography staff. Sports Illustrated Lays Off All Staff Photographers | NPPA. I just think that the idea that journalists are going out and buying high end gear is probably unlikely. They are just hoping they still have a pay check this time next year.

[LeeRunge]

How many high end sports photo-journalists are there? I guarantee that the majority of the people who buy this camera will be wealthy hobby photographers. Which is fine. I guess.

It has been 6 years since Sports Illustrated laid off all of their photography staff. Sports Illustrated Lays Off All Staff Photographers | NPPA. I just think that the idea that journalists are going out and buying high end gear is probably unlikely. They are just hoping they still have a pay check this time next year.

I’d agree not many. And for sure the bulk of sales albeit not many will be people with tons of cash who just want “best” associated with it to show off.

Probably whats more important is the “we beat everyone” flagship claim so all the sub-catagory cameras can benefit. Then people buying those can claim “sony is the best so i bought one” Even though at the lower/midrange price point that wouldn’t be true in some cases.

The sweet spot right now seems to be in Z6/7’s D850’s, R6’s and 5D4’s, A7iii and A7R4’s etc. The K3 iii will be right in there if it matches AF-C. Those all have way more performance then most really need.

This is the reason I ended up with a Z5. The ONLY thing I don’t like is the 4.5 FPS. If it had been 6-8 I would be pretty happy. But I’ll live with it. In a pinch I can use the 8mp 30FPS if I need to for a bird and I’ll be happy at 8mp. I don’t print giant bird photo’s on my wall, ever.

And even in that instance only because I wanted to give EVF a go. Pretty much all the DSLR’s including my D750 work just fine and take the same images minus the differences in the process of taking them.