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02-03-2021, 08:23 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Then why are you here? No one is twisting your arm to view this post if it hurts to see former Pentaxians moving on to better options for them. Did you forget you're in the Non-Pentax cameras forum?
It's quite possible to read the non-Pentax section for information about other cameras, without seeing this kind of pointless Pentax bashing. It has all the traditional Pentax basher qualities. Compare's a field camera to action cameras, in full knowledge that Pentax's stab at an action camera is weeks away from being released, comparing a 6 year old K-3 to and brand spanking new R6. Complaining about the lack of AF points that has been addressed in the K-3iii. I've never seen a single image from this poster, does he even post images?

All the traditional tactics we've seen so many times over the years.

Just because someone is critical of Pentax doesn't mean he's right. His error was buying the wrong camera for the job he's doing, it had nothing to do with Pentax, it had only to do with his choice. My K-1 which he completely dismisses is still the best camera for what I do. His criticism is irrelevant except to establish his poor judgement in buying a Pentax K-1ii out of brand loyalty (if in fact that's the case.) No one should ever buy any tool for brand loyalty. Best tool for the job and all that. That was his first and only mistake, and he never owned it. The rest is controversial nonsense.

And if he can't handle criticism of his post, he shouldn't post on a public forum.

If someone posts "the R6 is the future", no one should complain if someone else should post "no it's not". Opinions are fair game.

Is he even a photographer? All he posts is youtube videos?
How do I know I his R6 outperforms his K-3(a camera released this year outperforms a 6 year old camera," how is that possible you ask?") I don't see any K-3 images, I don't see any R6 images. I have no data to evaluate his claims. Even the claim that he takes pictures. It's all subjective.

Claiming you love Pentax but bought a Z6 for action right before Pentax releases it's first real action camera without even giving it a look is highly suspicious. It might be a coincidence, it might be intentional, I have no way to evaluate that either. I just know this poster is not on my list of credible sources of information. That's earned by backing up your posts with real data, like images I can evaluate. After all is said and done, if you can't show me some stellar images, I have no reason to take advice from you. You can't improve your photography taking gear advice from bad photographers. As I say, find someone who does what you want, pick their brains, even copy their gear so their advice directly translates to the gear you use. If they haven't shown you an image you want to emulate, they are the last person you should be taking advice from whether it be gear or technique. Who cares what gear some guy who takes average images at best thinks? Do you want excellence or don't you?


Last edited by normhead; 02-03-2021 at 08:59 AM.
02-03-2021, 08:53 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's quite possible to read the non-Pentax section for information about other cameras, without seeing this kind of pointless Pentax bashing.
I stopped reading after that.


You're mistaken that it's Pentax Bashing. This is the problem with echochambers. People get so worked up with their 'cause' (whatever that it may be) that they lose all sense of rationality in their stance. To the point that they see any other views or messaging as hatespeech or bashing when it doesn't contend with their own worked up point of view.
02-03-2021, 09:11 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I stopped reading after that.


You're mistaken that it's Pentax Bashing. This is the problem with echochambers. People get so worked up with their 'cause' (whatever that it may be) that they lose all sense of rationality in their stance. To the point that they see any other views or messaging as hatespeech or bashing when it doesn't contend with their own worked up point of view.
Building up a set of features where Pentax dose not excel and dismissing a group of features where Pentax does excell is definitely Pentax bashing. So we definitely have differing opinions of what Pentax bashing is.

QuoteQuote:
This is the problem with echochambers. People get so worked up with their 'cause' (whatever that it may be) that they lose all sense of rationality in their stance. To the point that they see any other views or messaging as hatespeech or bashing when it doesn't contend with their own worked up point of view.
How many insults can you get into one sentence?
"echochambers", "hate speech", "worked up"
Those are pretty serious accusations.
Ironic you should be doing what you accuse others of, only worse.

QuoteQuote:
To the point that they see any other views or messaging as hatespeech or bashing when it doesn't contend with their own worked up point of view.
Or maybe they just see the need to correct inaccurate information. The truth used to count for something. Some people might see that as hateful, but only those emotionally attached to the information presented.

Bosircletoed. I don't entertain baseless name calling.
02-03-2021, 09:11 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And if he can't handle criticism of his post, he shouldn't post on a public forum.

If someone posts "the R6 is the future", no one should complain if someone else should post "no it's not". Opinions are fair game.

Is he even a photographer? All he posts is youtube videos?
How do I know I his R6 outperforms his K-3(a camera released this year outperforms a 6 year old camera," how is that possible you ask?") I don't see any K-3 images, I don't see any R6 images. I have no data to evaluate his claims. Even the claim that he takes pictures. It's all subjective.
Many "photographers" take U-tube videos - and they should use camcorders.
Pentax has never claimed to address that market.
Hopefully he will not post here wanting what Pentax has no intention of providing.

02-03-2021, 09:34 AM - 1 Like   #20
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Thanks to the OP for posting a fairly honest review. For my current use I am quite happy with my K-1II and K-3II but my use case is fairly narrow. I like to read reviews of other cameras from people who are actually using them rather than "testing" the one the company lent them for promotional purposes. The fact that he is a long time Pentax user makes it more valuable as he seems well aware of the advantages that Pentax has in some areas as well as the areas that are somewhat behind.

I appreciate that he evaluated what he needed and purchased the gear that does the job instead of coming here and ranting that Pentax should make him the camera he needs.
02-03-2021, 09:34 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Building up a set of features where Pentax dose not excel and dismissing a group of features where Pentax does excell is definitely Pentax bashing. So we definitely have differing opinions of what Pentax bashing is.
Unfortunately, it is often the case that people chose a camera for reasons other than what they need. That's why camera market share is mostly defined by marketing tactics, not quite defined by product features. If product features and customer criteria were objective, some cameras would have made penetrated deep, whereas sales stayed flat. If only by the technical choice, Panasonic S series would have 20% market share, Canon would have less etc... It took me many years to realize that cameras are technically too complicated devices to the average photographer to make a fully informed decision, not to mention that most photographers aren't even aware of all the features of the camera they buy, only discover after the purchase how to best use the camera. A lot of people just select Canon because it's Canon, doesn't matter what it is that they buy from Canon.

The K1 with pixel shift, astrotracer, sensor shift, 36Mp is a steal, relative to main brands, and I'm not even talking about the used market, you can now have a K1 for $1000, it's a steal. Go to other brands, you have to pay 2 grands for an entry level 20Mpixels model. Of course you get video blah blah, but if video is not your thing, than the K1 give you a lot for the money. Some people following the big brands aren't even aware of that, they just go Canon because it's Canon, they don't have to thinking. Thinking require efforts, most people make short cuts to make quicker decisions.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-03-2021 at 09:41 AM.
02-03-2021, 09:42 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Many "photographers" take U-tube videos - and they should use camcorders.
Pentax has never claimed to address that market.
Hopefully he will not post here wanting what Pentax has no intention of providing.
He's moved on, hopefully he has nothing further to say. I have to say, it didn't have to be that way. I quite enjoy the guys posting in the Fuji images thread. They promote their cameras the right way. Lots of images, lots of banter, and many of them have moved on from Pentax for various reasons. When one o them suggested I should ry one, I listen, because I am not at all opposed to getting gear from non Pentax companies, and I like their images. But to switch brands with all the expense that involves the bar is set pretty high when you look at what you look at small gains for big money.

Why would I consider Fuji? So many photographers who's work I like or who have done well with Pentax starting with Benji and LeRolls have moved there. I like their images etc. It's pleasant stopping in and enjoying the banter... because they don't bother explaining to me ad infinitum what's wrong with my gear. There's just a whole different level of respect. They seem quite happy to keep in touch with the forum while inconspicuously posting their new gear and the reasons they switched. Some have suggested I might enjoy Fuji gear, but do in a way that wasn't "in my face" and all subjective opinion.

And that's the way it should be. Based on posts like this, I suspect a Pentax user looking for something better might want to look at Fuji first. Some top notch Pentax shooters have gone that way. Just not for reasons that are relevant to me.. but they're an enjoyable bunch.

They make me wonder, that's wrong with Canon and Nikon shooters that they can't do the same?

Last edited by normhead; 02-03-2021 at 09:57 AM.
02-03-2021, 09:52 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
Beginning to make the switch... to Canon R6
Anecdotes concerning non-Pentax brands are useful, I think, especially coming from folks who have had lots of experience with various Pentax models.

However, I'm having a bit of a problem following the logic and choices based on this initial account. It seems that the move away from Pentax (K-1 and K-3, specifically) was driven by its perceived inferior performance at sport events. No doubt, the Canon R6 is a very fine camera according to numerous reviews, but this thread touches mainly on features and some specifications. The OP's real-life experience in fast-paced, low-light situations remains to be seen. Hopefully, they'll be able to get back to shooting basketball and football soon, and provide some stories of their success with the new system.

Choice of Lenses. As the OP suggests, lenses are a concern. The OP mentions shooting at f/2.8 indoors (for basketball, I presume), but is working only with the Canon 24-105mm lens at the moment, which has limited reach and a rather small maximum aperture at its long end. I would think that a significant investment needs to be made in lenses that would exploit the strengths of the camera and meet the challenging shooting conditions. A Canon RF telephoto zoom and a standard zoom together run USD $4-5000, depending on the aperture of the 70-200 (f/4 or f/2.8) (on top of the USD $3,500 for the R6 and kit lens). Edit: As @Dan Rentea; indicates below, Canon EF lenses -- with adapter -- are also feasible at lower prices.

The IBIS capability seems impressive, but slow shutter speeds are irrelevant in shooting sports. Also, it's not clear what is meant by "The slow 4 FPS (and even 7 fps) really made it difficult to anticipate what exact moment you were going to capture the shot." The connection between anticipating the shot and the frame rate is not obvious to me; perhaps they meant it was difficult to capture the optimal moment with the slower frame rates.

Regardless, it seems that the OP is excited with the new system, and obviously impressed with its features and specs. Hopefully, it will improve the outcomes of their photography and videography, while they continue to use their Pentax gear in other situations.


- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 02-03-2021 at 10:45 AM.
02-03-2021, 09:58 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Building up a set of features where Pentax dose not excel and dismissing a group of features where Pentax does excell is definitely Pentax bashing. So we definitely have differing opinions of what Pentax bashing is.



How many insults can you get into one sentence?
"echochambers", "hate speech", "worked up"
Those are pretty serious accusations.
Ironic you should be doing what you accuse others of, only worse.

Or maybe they just see the need to correct inaccurate information. The truth used to count for something. Some people might see that as hateful, but only those emotionally attached to the information presented.

Bosircletoed. I don't entertain baseless name calling.
You prove my point in every word you type.
02-03-2021, 09:59 AM   #25
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As far as the question if other brands have forums such as this.... Probably not. It is a group dynamic situation. A canon or nikon site might get more traffic and more users but there will be a lot more churn or people joining /leaving. That makes it harder to develop relationships.

Also the more popular brands have a lot more sites that are dedicated / cover them. When you google a random "how to" on pentax this site is going to get hits. You do the same think with canon and you will get more options. Some of those options will be good some bad. But this forum centralized the pentax knowledge and discussions.

I have seen it in other niche interests / products
02-03-2021, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by landofcourtness Quote
This really was/has been a really hard decision for me to make. I love my Pentax gear so so so much!!! From the k1000 (my first camera I had at age 13), to my p30 and ZX-7 in High School + College... to move on to the K-5, K-1, K-3 (I know, I got this after getting the K-1 because I wanted a 2nd body and got an amazing deal) in my adulthood. A Pentax really has always been a part of my life, and experiences.

I also really love my lens line-up, and about 2 years ago or so felt like it was finally complete!:
Sigma EX DG 17-35 2.8-4, Sigma 35 1.4 Art, Tamron 90 2.8 macro, DFA 24-105 kit, DFA 24-70 2.8, Sigma 70-200 HSM II, Irix 135 2.8 Macro, Lensbaby Optic 12mm Fisheye + 50mm

Normally I like to shoot events for my school, and take portraits of my students (and for media use at my education program)... normally with a K-3 + 70-200 and K-1 + 24-70 on double-hoslter... and it can definitely work (for reference: Basketball - https://youtu.be/KpnXU8OH8_I, Football - https://youtu.be/6mNr2ovkSOY). I think the 36MP is the sweet spot in terms of resolution, and the dynamic range gives a level of flexibility to a moment. In moments where subjects had moments of static, you could truly create amazing moments. However, you were always at the whim of the cameras AF which really hurt in some really important ways. The slow 4 FPS (and even 7 fps) really made it difficult to anticipate what exact moment you were going to capture the shot, and the extreme shallow buffer made shooting RAW practically impossible (the K-3 was a little different). The only real way to control things was to switch to single-point, which due to shooting at 2.8 (only while in-doors) made cropping blurry when AF was not quite where you wanted it. I don't do a lot of it at events, but sometimes its nice to innersperce video clips into highlights. Pentax is easily the most clunky.

I had hopes that some day that Pentax would come out with something that would make me believe that they would address the need for AF/Buffer progression (never really thought video would ever be a priority, which I was fine with). However, after the K-3iii specs, and then the 'possible' price of an APS-C camera (with delay). If this cycle of Tech follows the K-3/K-1/KP/K-70 line, then Pentax simply I feel I have to move on.

So... I decided to move on to the Canon R6. I've only had it for a brief period of time, but the capabilities of this cameras feels like jumping into time portal... and moving decades in advanced. From the AF (the eye-AF is truly game-changing), to the crazy FPS + Buffer (and how fast it clears), to the amazing touch interface (It works with pretty much everything! ex: pinch to zoom. Using the back screen like a joystick to move the AF point while still looking through the viewfinder is a change in interface that might be difficult not to have on other cameras). There's also something nice about shooting silent (you can make it so that you don't even know it took a picture). The video features, shooting 4k-60 and AF in video... to even the menus. The RF lenses have these control-rings that allows a 4th way to change a plethora of features. The customizability is also limitless. The IBIS (AF and video capabilities) is the reason that I went all the way up to this specific model. It claims 8-stops, and I'm not sure if that's exactly what I'm getting... but working with the lens IS, and it feels really close to that. The low-light capabilities really are something too! I'm not really sure what I would do to improve this camera. It has been great to use!! There's only really 1 thing that is a bit disjarring. I only have the Kit 24-105 4 -7.1 lens atm, and hoping to add the 50 1.8, and converting the Sigma 35 1.4 to Canon EF.

If there's anything that I wished the 20MP R6 had, was more MP. As I said, I feel that 36MP is the sweet spot... so I actually like having both systems, at least for now. Pentax K-1 for slow paced moments (landscapes/astro/Macro) or places where I think the elements might put my camera in danger (though the R6 feels high quality, there is no comparison to rugged peace-of-mind feeling I get from Pentax gear). Maybe its just sentiment... but I do like the idea of always having a Pentax somewhere! I also just really love this forum!! (truly the amount I've learned from this forum, just about photography. I used to joke with people that even if I didn't have a Pentax, I would just act like it to be apart of the forum) Does anyone know if there is a forum like this for other companies?? But I do think I'll eventually move my lens lineup over to Canon as more affordable 3rd party options become available. For now, I'll use the Canon R6 for video, fast-paced, portraits, etc. This R6 just very much feels like the future!!
I'm still debating between getting the R5 or R6. With R5 I had the pleasure to shoot a little, but not with R6. While I was shooting a lot of BIF before the pandemic, in the last 6-7 months I wasn't so active in this area and I dedicated my time to stock photography more and more.

For wildlife in my experience a good hide it's more useful than a long lens and therefore I wouldn't be concerned about R6's resolution because I don't crop much. With the little experience I have shooting sport, again, I think that if you can find a good spot to shoot from, less cropping it's necessary. On the other hand, a fast f2.8 zoom would be ideal so that you can keep the ISO as low as possible and get the subject separation as well. I suggest to get the Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L II (not III) and use it with adapter if you don't have the budget for the RF lenses. You won't notice any kind of problems due to adapter in terms of focusing or image quality. Of that I'm 1000% sure because I used 6D, 5D Mark IV and now EOS R and all the EF lenses work great with the Canon adapter on EOS R. The lens can be found at decent prices second hand.

R5 on the other hand has the 8k and also the 4k at 120fps and because I want to start shooting short videos for stock, on the long term R5 may be a better value. I'm not such a big fan of high resolution cameras for photos because I don't print larger than 20" and because I don't like to crop and therefore I find the best approach when I'm out shooting so that I won't have to crop my images.

I think you made a good choice in getting the R6 given what you shoot because it seems a solid camera for sport and action in general due to high ISO performance, fast fps, eye af and good buffer. You also benefit of the great af in video also which again, it's great.

Please come back once you start to put the camera at work and give us some impressions and maybe show a few images also.
02-03-2021, 10:31 AM - 2 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sidney Porter Quote
As far as the question if other brands have forums such as this.... Probably not. It is a group dynamic situation. A canon or nikon site might get more traffic and more users but there will be a lot more churn or people joining /leaving. That makes it harder to develop relationships.

Also the more popular brands have a lot more sites that are dedicated / cover them. When you google a random "how to" on pentax this site is going to get hits. You do the same think with canon and you will get more options. Some of those options will be good some bad. But this forum centralized the pentax knowledge and discussions.

I have seen it in other niche interests / products
True. Yet if you're going to offer a collection of subforms on the themed site to other brands, you should also be willing to take off your cult garb and stop espousing others who don't agree with your particular fantasticism as a heretic or bashing your favorite while partaking in said subforum(s).

We have some colorful (and perhaps bored) personalities here who have a long standing reputation of bullying others and then when they are challenged on it, cry "You're insulting me!" And they write a book, saying a lot of words but not saying much through them to try to defend themselves after getting in a huff. Same song, different day.
02-03-2021, 10:34 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
You prove my point in every word you type.
Ya ,ya whatever. I see no indication you even understand a fraction of what I type.
02-03-2021, 10:51 AM   #29
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I am not following the sub argument if the op is a photographer or videographer and the importance of video in pentax. The youtube links appear to be a slide show of highschool sports stills.
02-03-2021, 11:08 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sidney Porter Quote
I am not following the sub argument if the op is a photographer or videographer and the importance of video in pentax. The youtube links appear to be a slide show of highschool sports stills.
I hope people who do more traditional forms of photography ignore the thread, and that those with an interest in shooting H.S sports learn something useful. I wonder how many that would be? 5 maybe?
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