[Dan Rentea]

I wish people would just leave.

When I went from Pentax to Canon I didn’t write a letter to the editor {pre-web days} explaining screw-drive lenses were too noisy - I just made the move.

Five years ago, when I came back to Pentax, I didn’t post a comment about the reliability about Rebel processors - I just made the move.

Well, I think you spoke about the problems you had with your Rebel processors more than you think in this forum.

And, in case I didn't explained well enough, he hasn't left. He just switched for another camera for sport and video while he kept Pentax K1 for high resoution. He just explained his reasons which many Pentaxian shares when comes to action.

[normhead]

Again, the ones who have both K1 and KP say that K1 has a better dynamic range and better ISO.

he is the one to blame for something everybody agree with

He is to blame for buying a field camera and claiming I wasn't good for sports duh.

So, the OP said which were his problems without bashing the brand,

He bashed the brand, plain and simple. He listed a set of "deficiencies" . Things that anyone who read spec sheet knew were there. There was no need for that.

If he'd just said "I bought an R6 for sports", that was enough. We all would have understood. Once he said 20 MP most of us thought, that would have been great, if we owned a K-5. 20 MP hasn't been relevant since then. That was 10 year ago. Please don't go down that road like you did when you owned a 6D and you announced to the world that it was better IQ than a K-3.

I'd really like to see a few quotes of people claiming a K-1 has better DR than a K-P. I don't remember ever seeing any real world images that support that.

Normhead, I work with files taken in real conditions.

In your mind a camera that performs well under test conditions can be out performed by a lower testing camera given use in the "real world'. Any examples?

I used to believe such nonsense, before I start testing my theories. Just for the record, what people say is "anecdotal". Theories are devised to explain anecdotal evidence, empirical evidence is tests designed to prove or disprove theories. You stop your investigations at anecdotal evidence, and ignore the rest. No testing, no empirical evidence, in essence junk science, little better than opinion.

It's not real until the empirical part is done, until then it's just speculation.

Or in other words, until you can demonstrate it, it's just talk.

[Dan Rentea]

He is to blame for buying a field camera and claiming I wasn't good for sports duh.



He bashed the brand, plain and simple. He listens a set of "deficiencies" . Things that anyone who read spec sheet knew were there. There was no need for that.

If he'd just said "I bought an R6" for sports, that was enough. We all would have understood. Once he said 20 MP most of thought, that would have been great, if we owned a K-5. 20 MP hasn't been relevant since then. That was 10 year ago. Please don't g down that road like you did when you owned a 6D and you announced to the world that it was better IQ than a K-3.

Normhead, people buy cameras for lots of reasons. For example, I wasn't interested in video a year ago and now my priorities have changed due to stock photography/videography. I wasn't shooting macro until a few months ago when I signed a contract with a dentist that ends in December 2021. Therefore, I'm in the market also for R6 or R5 because of video and focus stalking. I can manage to do both with my current camera, but saying that I found a camera better than what I have doesn't mean I'm bashing my camera. I said that R5 makes 5D Mark IV to look old and outdated and I also said R6 makes 1Dx Mark III less mighty. This it's not bashing, it's a personal opinion with arguments that I shared to the ones interested.

You trashed K-3 Mark III and KP quite a lot in this forum: K3 Mark III for not having tilt screen and KP for a few reasons (grip, slower fps than K3, battery life, etc.).

And 20mp are plenty these days as it seems because I see tons of pro shooters using D500 and R6 with great results. As I said in my first comment, I make sure to approach my shootings so that I won't have to crop and I don't print larger than 20" and that's why R6 it's more tempting for photos for me than R5 and it's 45mp.

[normhead]

Normhead, people buy cameras for lots of reasons. For example, I wasn't interested in video a year ago and now my priorities have changed due to stock photography/videography. I wasn't shooting macro until a few months ago when I signed a contract with a dentist that ends in December 2021. Therefore, I'm in the market also for R6 or R5 because of video and focus stalking.

You trashed K-3 Mark III and KP quite a lot in this forum: K3 Mark III for not having tilt screen and KP for a few reasons (grip, slower fps than K3, battery life, etc.).

And 20mp are plenty these days as it seems because I see tons of pro shooters using D500 and R6 with great results. As I said in my first comment, I make sure to approach my shootings so that I won't have to crop and I don't print larger than 20" and that's why R6 it's more tempting for photos for me than R5 and it's 45mp.

In your mind a camera that performs well under test conditions can be out performed by a lower testing camera given use in the "real world'. Any examples?

I used to believe such nonsense, before I start testing my theories. Just for the record, what people say is "anecdotal". Theories are devised to explain anecdotal evidence, empirical evidence is tests designed to prove or disprove theories. You stop your investigations at anecdotal evidence, and ignore the rest. No testing, no empirical evidence, in essence junk science, little better than opinion.

It's not real until the empirical part is done, until then it's just speculation.

Or in other words, until you can demonstrate it, it's just talk.

Sometimes I wonder why I even ask you these questions. I wonder what your rational is for not answering.
Until you do there's no point in continuing, we are talking apples and oranges with no mechanism for dispute mechanism beyond "believe what Dan says without question." Without common agreement on how to resolve things, no resolution is possible. "What Dan believes" is gospel to very few of us.

My method is simple. No certainly about anything until you have side by side comparisons. Shot at the same time, everything else is speculation based on suspect data.

I suspect you don't like test charts because they don't agree with your half cooked theories.

---

Last edited by normhead; 02-03-2021 at 04:14 PM.

[Dan Rentea]

Sometimes I wonder why I even ask you these questions. I wonder what your rational is for not answering.

The answer is simple:
1. You have a habit in editing a lot your comments and I don't usually go back to check if people changed something in what they wrote initially.
2. I told you that you can find your answer in this forum (high ISO comparation test done on the official review where it is written that until ISO 51000 K1 has advantage over KP). You can find the other answers you're looking for by searching for KP reviews.
3. You don't answer polite to any topic/comments that doesn't please you (you jumped at the OP only for saying what was his experience shooting action with Pentax and by looking at his images from his videos, I saw he has some nice shots which proves that he can shoot action with Pentax, while you don't, at least not as much as him). So, for me he has something valuable to share which you don't: experience in shooting sport with Pentax cameras and images to show.

It would be enough as a reason if he wanted a camera with a flip screen since you trashed K-3 III for not having one?!

[reh321]

Well,He just switched for another camera for sport and video

Video alone would justify getting a Panasonic camcorder.
Sport - which seldom requires a flippy screen - justifies the K-3iii.
The problem is in financing more AF lenses.

[Dan Rentea]

Video alone would justify getting a Panasonic camcorder.
Sport - which seldom requires a flippy screen - justifies the K-3iii.

And he has flip screen and video capabilities in R6. That and something that Panasonic lags big time in video: Af.

[mee]

The answer is simple:
1. You have a habit in editing a lot your comments and I don't usually go back to check if people changed something in what they wrote initially.
2. I told you that you can find your answer in this forum (high ISO comparation test done on the official review where it is written that until ISO 51000 K1 has advantage over KP). You can find the other answers you're looking for by searching for KP reviews.
3. You don't answer polite to any topic/comments that doesn't please you (you jumped at the OP only for saying what was his experience shooting action with Pentax and by looking at his images from his videos, I saw he has some nice shots which proves that he can shoot action with Pentax, which you don't, at least not as much as him). So, for me he has something valuable to share which you don't: experience in shooting sport with Pentax cameras and images to show.

It would be enough as a reason if he wanted a camera with a flip screen since you trashed K-3 III for not having one?!

True. Especially #3. It's kind of sad seeing grown men going out of their mind to defend their product choices when someone else, and a long time Pentaxian no less, makes a new thread sharing his joy of his camera in the appropriate non-Pentax Cameras section.

If they really don't want to see people in love with other cameras than Pentax, then don't come to the Non-Pentax Cameras section dedicated just for these sort of discussions. You don't go into the floral section of a grocery store and inhale the flowers if you're allergic, so why would you go into the non-Pentax section and inhale the discussion if you're allergic to reading happy thoughts of other brands? That's why these topics are segregated into their own happy little area.


Maybe there is some underlying fear that the brand they know and love really is falling behind technologically and that scares or makes them sad? I really don't know, but it's got to be rather difficult to share positive things with so many zealot whiners who always have to die on the hill of defending Pentax at any potential slight. Especially in the very section designed to avoid those frustrations.

[carlb]

I wish people would just leave.

When I went from Pentax to Canon I didn’t write a letter to the editor {pre-web days} explaining screw-drive lenses were too noisy - I just made the move.

Five years ago, when I came back to Pentax, I didn’t post a comment about the reliability about Rebel processors - I just made the move.

This.

If your Pentax (or any other) gear isn't giving you what you need, then just buy whatever does and move on. There's no need to p**s on people's chips on the way out.

[Dan Rentea]

True. Especially #3. It's kind of sad seeing grown men going out of their mind to defend their product choices when someone else, and a long time Pentaxian no less, makes a new thread sharing his joy of his camera in the appropriate non-Pentax Cameras section.

If they really don't want to see people in love with other cameras than Pentax, then don't come to the Non-Pentax Cameras section dedicated just for these sort of discussions. You don't go into the floral section of a grocery store and inhale the flowers if you're allergic, so why would you go into the non-Pentax section and inhale the discussion if you're allergic to reading happy thoughts of other brands? That's why these topics are segregated into their own happy little area.


Maybe there is some underlying fear that the brand they know and love really is falling behind technologically and that scares or makes them sad? I really don't know, but it's got to be rather difficult to share positive things with so many zealot whiners who always have to die on the hill of defending Pentax at any potential slight. Especially in the very section designed to avoid those frustrations.

To me it's also about consinstency which lacks in the case of very few people. I don't understand how someone who say pretty clear that due to the lack of tilt screen he won't buy K-3 III doesn't understand and accept why someone else didn't wait for K-3 III and went for other camera to get his job done, even with arguments way more solid than the lack of a tilt screen.

Anyway, I rather let the OP to post a further comment if he thinks it is needed rather than seeing people associating this post with the launch of K-3 Mark III as if there is a contest between the 2 cameras when every photographer know it isn't the case due to various reasons.

---------- Post added 02-04-21 at 12:35 AM ----------

This.

If your Pentax (or any other) gear isn't giving you what you need, then just buy whatever does and move on. There's no need to p**s on people's chips on the way out.

What way out? He keeps his Pentax K1 and it's not my invention, he said that. I quote him "As I said, I feel that 36MP is the sweet spot... so I actually like having both systems, at least for now. Pentax K-1 for slow paced moments (landscapes/astro/Macro). You want a Pentaxian gone for adding a second system and because he shared his decision? My God, I can't believe it's getting this far...

[mee]

To me it's also about consinstency which lacks in the case of very few people.

That's likely due to heavy bias which clouds judgement from seeing other points of view. The camera, camera brand, or any other topic becomes an extension of the person's psyche. Essentially, some people think their fav camera brand is a part of themself, so anyone with a different PoV is attacking them as a person. And they get so drawn into their own views that their views must be your views, otherwise you must have the wrong views and must be reeducated. How could you possibly not function with the camera that I function with? haha.


This stuff really does hinder discussion. Case in point -- this very thread we're in now. A guy just wanted to express his joy of getting a new camera and a few brand fans decided to attack his choices because it was the wrong camera brand in their eyes. Ah well..

[MarkJerling]

As this thread has become an argument between Dan and Norm, is there any point keeping it open?

[mee]

As this thread has become an argument between Dan and Norm, is there any point keeping it open?

I'd rather you just clear out the posts of people that are offended at seeing someone express joy for a Canon camera in a subsection dedicated to discussing such topics as joy for Canon cameras. As well as those that have to argue the stupid flipscreen ad infinitum.


Why let the thread get locked (ruined) due to the off topic diatribes? Just clear out all of our posts (mine included) that aren't on topic to the OP's positive theme imo. Otherwise, it lets the bullies know they can lock down threads that they don't want to see by playing this kind of sour game. IMO

[c.a.m]

A guy just wanted to express his joy of getting a new camera

Actually, the original post goes beyond expressing joy of getting a new camera, and I think some readers of this thread might be trying to understand the issues that the user encountered. In my opinion, that's a reasonable reaction to the post, especially since the OP obviously also appreciates their Pentax gear, despite the specific issues. So, it's not simply a post about a non-Pentax camera -- it's also about Pentax in particular and its perceived negative aspects.

Going beyond the joy of the new R6, the OP describes some of the problems with their K-1:

• "always at the whim of the cameras AF
• The slow 4 FPS (and even 7 fps) really made it difficult to anticipate what exact moment you were going to capture the shot
• extreme shallow buffer made shooting RAW practically impossible
• The only real way to control things was to switch to single-point
• Pentax is easily the most clunky."

- Craig

[MarkJerling]

I'd rather you just clear out the posts of people that are offended at seeing someone express joy for a Canon camera in a subsection dedicated to discussing such topics as joy for Canon cameras. As well as those that have to argue the stupid flipscreen ad infinitum.


Why let the thread get locked (ruined) due to the off topic diatribes? Just clear out all of our posts (mine included) that aren't on topic to the OP's positive theme imo. Otherwise, it lets the bullies know they can lock down threads that they don't want to see by playing this kind of sour game. IMO

OK, point taken. However, I don't have time today to play editor, so rather than that I'll just say:
@normhead and @Dan Rentea please cut it out or thread bans will follow.