[biz-engineer]

Yes. Slightly slower lenses (f/1.8) on full frame sensor make the most sense, for me at least. Much lighter and more compact and much cheaper. The FA Limited's on AF adaptor are perfect for this.

I agree. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Pentax K1 + Ltd + D-FA 70-210 f4 is a light weight kit. I admit there is more choice for Sony mount, like the Zeiss Batis f1.8 primes, ultimate optical quality but not large/heavy. Ricoh would just have had to redesign the limited with AF motor and WR , with improved optics housed into a little larger shell to match the K1, but not as large as the D-FA* f1.4 primes. However, I think Ricoh decided to go for a D-FA* large primes and leave the f1.8 prime space empty to avoid cannibalizing FA limited sales. So as a customer, I may or may not buy into Ricoh's choices.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-02-2021 at 12:05 AM.

[Benz3ne]

Doing this at the moment, a system changeover to a small, lighter weight kit.

In brief:

A7R IV (£2150) with Neewer (£48) or Meike grip (£99) (not he Sony due to cost)
Sony G 1.8/20 (£800)
Sony Zeiss 1.8/55 (£500), had one years ago, stellar lens
Tamron 70-180mm F/2.8 Di III VXD (£900)
Pentax-FA Limited's, the 31, 43 and 77 (already have) on an AF Monster Adaptor (around £200) once it's available
Samyang 2.8/14 on Rayqual MF adaptor (already have)
NiSi 77mm macro conversion lens (£109)
Some filters, including the Singh-Ray Gold 'n Blue, MRC CPL's, ND's etc.
Cactus RF60 with V6IIs

And that's it, nothing other than that lot can be hauled or will ever be used. Total kit weight under 6 kilos. All told, including other bits and pieces, total comes to under £5,000. Dumping a ton of old gear which will leave this a zero cost exercise, possibly with a lot of change, but it'll take a long time to sell is my guess.

I have found that if you base your system on a maximum target of 6 kilos (hand baggage permissible weight), this really focuses the mind as to what you'll actually use and avoids needlessly fast (and therefore heavy and expensive) lenses.

Don't know if this is of any help.

That looks a stellar system.
Keep an eye out on Amazon for the Neewer or Meike grips. I recently got the Neewer version (though they're identical) for £22 in a 'lightning deal'.
That Zeiss 55/1.8 has made me sit up a bit recently, after swapping over from some of the Samyang tiny lenses to a Sony 35/1.8 and Sony 85/1.8 (together cost me around £650). It looks a wonderful lens and would fit quite neatly between the two AF Lenses I have...


...That said I have a reasonable number of nifty-50's as things stand.

[Parry]

Does anyone have real numbers to show the extent of the focus breathing. I have seen very short (near MFD) shots that show some but i have seen practical portrait use and I don't think it matters much at those distances. I know on the 60-250 which is a focus breathing monster - it is at the worst at about 10' and under and virtually disappears by 10m (30+ feel). This means it has little practical impact for most of us. Tony Northrup used this as a reason not to switch to Nikon years ago as the Nikon DSLR F mount equivalent had similar behavior but the Canon EF mount L glass didn't. The newer mirrorless lenses are reversed - with the Nikon Z doesn't have much if any focus breathing and the Canon now has quite a bit but with a very small compact design. (bear in mind that I may have details slightly off, but the general trend should be accurate).

Not seen numbers, seen a demonstration of it, but it never made any difference to me.

---------- Post added 02-03-21 at 19:49 ----------

I agree. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Pentax K1 + Ltd + D-FA 70-210 f4 is a light weight kit. I admit there is more choice for Sony mount, like the Zeiss Batis f1.8 primes, ultimate optical quality but not large/heavy. Ricoh would just have had to redesign the limited with AF motor and WR , with improved optics housed into a little larger shell to match the K1, but not as large as the D-FA* f1.4 primes. However, I think Ricoh decided to go for a D-FA* large primes and leave the f1.8 prime space empty to avoid cannibalizing FA limited sales. So as a customer, I may or may not buy into Ricoh's choices.

It's the focusing speed and accuracy combined with eye detection of the A7RIV with the Tamron 70-180. Instant. Watched demonstrations of it online. The image quality is right up with primes.

The price (£2,000) and weight (1.25 kilos) of the DFA* 1.4/85 was a shocker. Almost the same price as a Sony 1.8/20 G, Sony Zeiss 1.8/55 and Tamron 2.8/70-180...combined! (Came in at £2,200 and 1.45 kilos).

No doubt that Pentax lens is optically excellent, but they all are.

Ricoh has gone with big, heavy and high price. I don't think this is appeals to the wider market.

---------- Post added 02-03-21 at 19:50 ----------

That looks a stellar system.
Keep an eye out on Amazon for the Neewer or Meike grips. I recently got the Neewer version (though they're identical) for £22 in a 'lightning deal'.
That Zeiss 55/1.8 has made me sit up a bit recently, after swapping over from some of the Samyang tiny lenses to a Sony 35/1.8 and Sony 85/1.8 (together cost me around £650). It looks a wonderful lens and would fit quite neatly between the two AF Lenses I have...


...That said I have a reasonable number of nifty-50's as things stand.

Yes! The Neewer is £47 normally. Meike £99. Had no idea they were identical. Many thanks!

[Benz3ne]

Yes! The Neewer is £47 normally. Meike £99. Had no idea they were identical. Many thanks!

It did just dawn on me that you could be on about the battery grip... I went for the non-battery grip and it makes a world of difference for heavier lenses, or extended periods of simply walking around with the camera.
The battery grips are the same afaik too.

[Parry]

It did just dawn on me that you could be on about the battery grip... I went for the non-battery grip and it makes a world of difference for heavier lenses, or extended periods of simply walking around with the camera.
The battery grips are the same afaik too.

I had no idea one was available. The new battery, the NPZ-100 or whatever it's called, apparently lasts for 800 or so shots, so it's solved one of the major draw back of mirrorless. My only other challenge is simple and easy sensor cleaning for the ham fisted. I did a list of benefits and challenges to overcome...

Advantages

• Less weight, if >f/1.8 lenses, Tamron 70-180, 810g;
• No need for lens calibration;
• Phase and contrast AF, instead of just contrast AF;
• Many more focus points over a wider area of the sensor;
• Lack of Eye Detection AF;
• Video AF;
• Easier manual focus with EVF zoom on back button;
• Better focus peaking;
• Better live view for dark/night;
• Faster and more accurate low light focusing;
• APS-C mode, 26mp;
• Faster burst rate, 10fps (compressed RAW, 6fps uncompressed at 61mp);
• Lens adaptation from other systems;
• Specific native lenses are the same price or cheaper than competitors now, with a large selection of high quality Sony and third party, not that I need a lot of lenses.

Disadvantages

• Sensor dust, contamination (big problem);
• Ergonomics, handling, menus compared to K-1;
• Colour accuracy in Sony A7RIV, green cast needs colour correction profile/LUT/preset for A7RIV, not the other models;
• Chroma noise in high resolution Sony bodies, reportedly noticeable from base ISO by some users, but get exposure right and it seems some people can squeeze iso 6400, not that I ever go that high;
• High resolution sensor magnifies imperfections such as fringing and chromatic aberration in older adapted lenses, lower resolution sensor often better. Maybe an issue with the Pentax FA Limited's from f/1.8 to f/2.4.

[Parry]

There! From 20mm to 180mm, about the highest quality optics available on the market out of all brands on a super fast focusing 61mp full frame (26mp crop mode). 1 body, 1 grip, 4 primes, 1 zoom, £6,100 and 3.25 kilos.

Price Weight (g)
Sony A7R IV £2,170.00 660g
Neewer VG-C4EM vertical battery grip £48.00 230g
Sony G 1.8/20mm £810.00 373g
Sony 1.4/35 GM £1,300.00 524g
Sony Zeiss 1.8/55mm £500.00 281g
Sony 1.8/85 FE £429.00 371g
Tamron 70‑180mm f/2.8 DI III VXD £840.00 810g
Total £6,097.00 3249 grams

Three point two five kilogrammes!!!

[surfar]

Three point two five kilogrammes!!!

I know that weight well...Sigma Sports 150-600mm...the Beast!

Considering the A7Riv is a FF camera plus a crop camera, its good value.Subtract the cost of a crop body and the FF one is 2000ish(if purchased new)

[Parry]

I know that weight well...Sigma Sports 150-600mm...the Beast!

Considering the A7Riv is a FF camera plus a crop camera, its good value.Subtract the cost of a crop body and the FF one is 2000ish(if purchased new)

Aye! Just added my A6000 to the sale list. I hate to say it, but I might even dump the three FA Limited's, but.... Oh that would be painful. So dunno? If the Sony 1.4/35 GM is to be got, those three will have to go to pay for it, also means I don't need the Monster Adaptor, so £250 saved there. I intend for this to be heavily on the happy side of a zero cost exercise. Like it leaves at £2-3k spare. Maybe.

Including bag (Lowepro Nova 200 AW) and a couple of other bits, got the hand luggage (bag + body/grip + 3 primes (as above but without the 1.8/85) + 1 zoom + 3 batteries) down to 4.3 kilos. My target, and I thought I was being daft, was 5-6 kilos. Smashed it!!! Knowing I won't be burdened with gear and weight, this actually makes me want to shoot again on the regular, once (if) we're released from prison. You know how it goes. "I'll just take this. No. No, I need that too. And that. And this. And the other. And before you know it you're at 25 kilos and end up using 20% of that. Tripod (Induro CT-414 with BHL-3 ballhead) is going, it's heavy as hell, really designed for the big tele's (2.8/400 size) on a gimbal, so won't need that. Looking at a sub-1 kilo replacement.

[Dan Rentea]

There! From 20mm to 180mm, about the highest quality optics available on the market out of all brands on a super fast focusing 61mp full frame (26mp crop mode). 1 body, 1 grip, 4 primes, 1 zoom, £6,100 and 3.25 kilos.

Price Weight (g)
Sony A7R IV £2,170.00 660g
Neewer VG-C4EM vertical battery grip £48.00 230g
Sony G 1.8/20mm £810.00 373g
Sony 1.4/35 GM £1,300.00 524g
Sony Zeiss 1.8/55mm £500.00 281g
Sony 1.8/85 FE £429.00 371g
Tamron 70‑180mm f/2.8 DI III VXD £840.00 810g
Total £6,097.00 3249 grams

Three point two five kilogrammes!!!

Here is another option worth considering for flexibility, price and weight, all of the lenses being modern f2.8 also:

Sony A7R IV (a camera with 61mp full frame sensor with the option to shoot at 26mp in APS-C mode) at $2,998 and 665g
Tamron 17-28mm f2.8 at $899 and 420g
Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 at $879 and 550g
Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 at $1,199 and 810g
Total $5,975 and 2445 grams

I can't get the same price for Pentax K-1 II or for Canon R5 or Nikon Z7 II with the f2.8 Tamron trinity lenses.

By comparison:
K1 Mark II with Pentax 15-30mm f2.8, Pentax 24-70mm f2.8 and Pentax 70-200mm f2.8 cost $6,020 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4507g.
Canon R5 with Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 and adapter cost $7,695 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4362g. The same lenses, but with 5D Mark IV instead will cost $6,196 and the weight will be 4344g.
Nikon Z7 II with Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 and adapter cost $6,994 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4274g. The same lenses, but with D850 will cost $6,694 and the total weight will be 4429g.

Sony has the advantage of weight and price over all of them and also has the advantage over Canon and Nikon because Tamron lenses don't need adapter. Third party lenses have a huge role in both price and weight and Sony has the advantage over Pentax, Canon and Nikon. Once Tamron and Sigma will start releasing lenses for RF and Z mounts, Sony may face even more competition in mirrorless market. Until then, it does offer the lightest f2.8 combo from 17 to 180mm and the cheapest compared to Canon, Pentax and Nikon.

[Parry]

Here is another option worth considering for flexibility, price and weight, all of the lenses being modern f2.8 also:

Sony A7R IV (a camera with 61mp full frame sensor with the option to shoot at 26mp in APS-C mode) at $2,998 and 665g
Tamron 17-28mm f2.8 at $899 and 420g
Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 at $879 and 550g
Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 at $1,199 and 810g
Total $5,975 and 2445 grams

I can't get the same price for Pentax K-1 II or for Canon R5 or Nikon Z7 II with the f2.8 Tamron trinity lenses.

By comparation:
K1 Mark II with Pentax 15-30mm f2.8, Pentax 24-70mm f2.8 and Pentax 70-200mm f2.8 cost $6,020 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4507g.
Canon R5 with Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 and adapter cost $7,695 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4362g
Nikon Z7 II with Tamron 15-30mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2, Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 and adapter cost $6,994 at B&H and the total weight of this combo is 4274g

Sony has the advantage of weight and price over all of them and also has the advantage over Canon and Nikon because Tamron lenses don't need adapter. Third party lenses have a huge role in both price and weight and Sony has the advantage over Pentax, Canon and Nikon. Once Tamron and Sigma will start releasing lenses for RF and Z mounts, Sony may face even more competition in mirrorless market. Until then, it does offer the lightest f2.8 combo from 17 to 180mm and the cheapest compared to Canon, Pentax and Nikon.

Nice one, Dan. I'll check UK prices and stick that lot in the cost model. I do like those three primes. 20, 35, 55 with the 70-180. For macro I'm keeping the Raynox DCR-150, 250 and MSN-505 as these seem to work well on both the 55 and the zoom. Anyone who thinks Sony's expensive needs to start adding up. Some lenses stand out, a bit, like the Sony 2.8/12-24, but the others are pretty competitive, especially considering both weight and optically quality. Third party dumped Pentax a long time ago, even Samyang.

[Dan Rentea]

Nice one, Dan. I'll check UK prices and stick that lot in the cost model. I do like those three primes. 20, 35, 55 with the 70-180. For macro I'm keeping the Raynox DCR-150, 250 and MSN-505 as these seem to work well on both the 55 and the zoom. Anyone who thinks Sony's expensive needs to start adding up. Some lenses stand out, a bit, like the Sony 2.8/12-24, but the others are pretty competitive, especially considering both weight and optically quality. Third party dumped Pentax a long time ago, even Samyang.

I know what you mean when comes to primes. I use Canon 35mm f1.4L and Canon 85mm f1.4L for 90% of my paid work. I take a 16-35mm f4L lens only for group shots where f2.8 isn't important or when I'm traveling. Even for travel I use Canon 35mm f2 and Canon 85mm f2 with adapter on EOS R because they are much much lighter than the f1.4 primes and they are good optically at very cheap prices.

Yeah, Sony system is competitive and has third party support also. It's hard to ignore the system once you start to put on paper the prices and the lenses availability. Not many need the A7R IV resolution and the additional costs that come with it (memory cards, storage, some computer upgrades for the big files) and if we replace the A7R IV with A7 III, the total price with the f2.8 Tamron trinity lenses will be $1,300 cheaper...

[Parry]

I know what you mean when comes to primes. I use Canon 35mm f1.4L and Canon 85mm f1.4L for 90% of my paid work. I take a 16-35mm f4L lens only for group shots where f2.8 isn't important or when I'm traveling. Even for travel I use Canon 35mm f2 and Canon 85mm f2 with adapter on EOS R because they are much much lighter than the f1.4 primes and they are good optically at very cheap prices.

Yeah, Sony system is competitive and has third party support also. It's hard to ignore the system once you start to put on paper the prices and the lenses availability. Not many need the A7R IV resolution and the additional costs that come with it (memory cards, storage, some computer upgrades for the big files) and if we replace the A7R IV with A7 III, the total price with the f2.8 Tamron trinity lenses will be $1,300 cheaper...

Hanging on for the A7IV might be a smart move. AF will be the next gen and 30-32mp is mooted, which would be better. My workstation rocks 2tb SSD and 12tb HDD and another 6tb external. Threadripper 3960x on Cooler Master liquid cooling, 128gb 3,200mhz RAM, twin 2080ti RTX GPU's, all on some mad motherboard that cost the same as a MacBook Pro. Cost me an absolute fortune. 3D modelling and photo realistic rendering is the reason. Moving into animation next. All for construction, land regeneration and water treatment engineering. I tell you, V-Ray is awesome!

[Dan Rentea]

Hanging on for the A7IV might be a smart move.

Yes, I would probably wait a little to see the official announcement of A7 IV before buying any Sony camera. It should be a very interesting camera knowing the specs and performance of A7R IV, A7S III and A1.

[Parry]

Yes, I would probably wait a little to see the official announcement of A7 IV before buying any Sony camera. It should be a very interesting camera knowing the specs and performance of A7R IV, A7S III and A1.

Noise, innit? Still unsure whther the A7RIV is right for me, vis-à-vis low res/lower noise/that ghastly green cast. Yes. Wait. Best.

[Dan Rentea]

Noise, innit? Still unsure whther the A7RIV is right for me, vis-à-vis low res/lower noise/that ghastly green cast. Yes. Wait. Best.

I wouldn't worry at all about noise. The advantage of a high resolution sensor is that if you resize the image from 61mp to 20mp you "gain" close to 2 stops in terms of noise.