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02-10-2021, 08:23 PM   #1
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Upgrading to FF with $7G budget.

Hello, everyone! I want to get my first full frame mirrorless camera. The budget is $7,000.00 I can add more if need be, but I would like to keep it at $7,000.00. I'm leaning on the A7IV camera body. To save some money I'll be using student discounts, and may also consider buying the items in a tax free state. Currently, the only FF AF lens I own is the Sony 90mm F/2.8 G Macro. I also have some vintage lenses that I enjoy, such as my Super Takumar 50mm F1.4 8 element, Super takumar 200mm F/3.5, Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 135mm F/2.8, and a few others. Mostly in the 50mm to 135mm range. I would like to purchase the Sony 200-600mm G for $1,698.20. I'll be using that for wildlife. I may keep my APS-C camera for that lens for closer reach if need be. Instead of purchasing the 1X TC. I also would like to purchase the Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 DG DN Art for events. I haven't checked yet what the student discount would be, but it's currently going for $1,099.00. I really would like a 50mm, but I'm a bit torn with this decision. I really would like the Sony Planar 50mm F/1.4 ZA for $1,242.04. However, after watching and reading a lot of reviews the main drawback is with the AF. It's not quite as good as some of todays offerings. I'm not sure if I should go with that one, or pick something else. I also would like a good wide angle prime in my kit for landscape. I was thinking of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm f/2.8, and yes I'm ok with the wide angle being a MF lens for landscape. I really like the compact size of it and the weather sealing. I don't have to get that particular lens new. As I have seen them go for $800.00-$700.00, or best offer. Another lens I would like to add for landscape purposes is the Contax Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar T* 35-70mm F3.4 MMJ.

02-10-2021, 08:36 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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if I had that kind of budget, I'd be looking at one of the Fuji GFX bodies....
02-10-2021, 11:00 PM - 3 Likes   #3
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I can highly recommend this site for Sony information:

Sony FE lenses: The honest Guide for the A7/A7II/A7III A7rII/A7rIII/A7rIV A7c A9 - phillipreeve.net

My own experience suggests that the 24-105 f4 is a great walk around lens. The FE 85 f1.8 is excellent, and the FE 28 f2 is far better than it has any right to be.

As for telephoto, Iíd look hard at both the 200-600 and 100-400. The latter is more expensive but with the 2x tc you get 200-800 also. Remember that the apsc crop factor isnít going to gain anything as the A7rIV can crop to that size already. The crop portion of the sensor is over 26mp so there isnít really anything to gain by using a 24mp apsc camera.

Last edited by UncleVanya; 02-10-2021 at 11:06 PM.
02-10-2021, 11:24 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
Hello, everyone! I want to get my first full frame mirrorless camera. The budget is $7,000.00
I'd wait if I was you,it could be better to see what's coming along later this year.

02-10-2021, 11:31 PM   #5
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Also of note the Sony 200-600 has had issues with autofocus on the A7rIV.
02-10-2021, 11:37 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I can highly recommend this site for Sony information:

Sony FE lenses: The honest Guide for the A7/A7II/A7III A7rII/A7rIII/A7rIV A7c A9 - phillipreeve.net

My own experience suggests that the 24-105 f4 is a great walk around lens. The FE 85 f1.8 is excellent, and the FE 28 f2 is far better than it has any right to be.

As for telephoto, Iíd look hard at both the 200-600 and 100-400. The latter is more expensive but with the 2x tc you get 200-800 also. Remember that the apsc crop factor isnít going to gain anything as the A7rIV can crop to that size already. The crop portion of the sensor is over 26mp so there isnít really anything to gain by using a 24mp apsc camera.
There's now a Sigma version of this that's getting good initial reviews and costs around the £850-900 mark new.
+1 to the statement about the FE 85mm f/1.8.
I'll throw in my 2c that the FE 35mm f/1.8 is fast becoming a favourite lens of mine.
02-11-2021, 12:08 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
I really would like the Sony Planar 50mm F/1.4 ZA for $1,242.04. However, after watching and reading a lot of reviews the main drawback is with the AF.
I don't know that lens. But I've been fooled by reviews quite a few times. Reviewers often praise more what's new, sometimes they'll praise a new product as outstanding which not really is that outstanding. They'll say "this new xyz product is soooo much better", when sometimes is not even better than an older product. So, be careful with reviews, try to evaluate the products yourself before you buy.

---------- Post added 11-02-21 at 08:10 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
if I had that kind of budget, I'd be looking at one of the Fuji GFX bodies....
For GFX system, you need more than 7K, unless buying used. GFX new with 3 lenses goes to 12K. And forget about long tele lens for wildlife, maximum 200mm FF equ.!
02-11-2021, 06:35 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I can highly recommend this site for Sony information:

Sony FE lenses: The honest Guide for the A7/A7II/A7III A7rII/A7rIII/A7rIV A7c A9 - phillipreeve.net

My own experience suggests that the 24-105 f4 is a great walk around lens. The FE 85 f1.8 is excellent, and the FE 28 f2 is far better than it has any right to be.

As for telephoto, Iíd look hard at both the 200-600 and 100-400. The latter is more expensive but with the 2x tc you get 200-800 also. Remember that the apsc crop factor isnít going to gain anything as the A7rIV can crop to that size already. The crop portion of the sensor is over 26mp so there isnít really anything to gain by using a 24mp apsc camera.
Thanks for the recommendations. The 100-400 isn't as sharp as the 200-600. Also using the 100-400 with a 2x teleconverter isn't viable when your losing a lot of stops of light and degrading the image with the 2x teleconverter. Let alone having to push the iso higher to compensate for that loss of light. As well as loss of AF features. Paying an additional grand for 2 extra mega pixels isn't worth it for me. Also having to pay for expensive storage for the larger files isn't worth it either. No one is going to notice the 60MP online. I don't have any intention of printing anything larger than a football field either.

---------- Post added 02-11-21 at 06:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
There's now a Sigma version of this that's getting good initial reviews and costs around the £850-900 mark new.
+1 to the statement about the FE 85mm f/1.8.
I'll throw in my 2c that the FE 35mm f/1.8 is fast becoming a favourite lens of mine.
Unfortunately there isn't a 200-600mm native to my camera mount. I wish they made one instead of wasting time on a basic 70-200mm as if the market isn't over saturated with that focal range already. Thanks for the lens suggestions.

02-11-2021, 06:55 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
Thanks for the recommendations. The 100-400 isn't as sharp as the 200-600. Also using the 100-400 with a 2x teleconverter isn't viable when your losing a lot of stops of light and degrading the image with the 2x teleconverter. Let alone having to push the iso higher to compensate for that loss of light. As well as loss of AF features. Paying an additional grand for 2 extra mega pixels isn't worth it for me. Also having to pay for expensive storage for the larger files isn't worth it either. No one is going to notice the 60MP online. I don't have any intention of printing anything larger than a football field either.
I hate to be 'that guy' but why are you so set on full-frame then? You'd be able to get some exceptionally capable cameras in the A6600, save a bit of money versus a A7Riii or A7Riv (or A9, because frankly 24mp is fine for most, myself included as an A7iii user) and you'd have the additional reach of the APS-C sensor. There are some good wider options available for APS-C nowadays.
If you mean the not-yet-released A7iv, then it's a guessing game as to when that'll be made available.
What UncleVanya also means is that you would not need a separate Sony APS-C camera if you had the A7Riv, given the ability to use crop mode at 26mp in camera. This also largely removes your requirement for a 2x t/c.
If you're not reliant on high megapixel count, as you mentioned, then even the A7Riii would suffice with a crop mode resolution of 18mp.
I don't know how much real-world sharpness MTF tests translate to, but most (if not all) photos I've seen with either the 100-400 or 200-600 have been immensely sharp.

If I had $7,000 right now and I wanted to fill your brief I'd probably go A7Riii, Tamron 17-28mm f/2.8, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 (or sigma 24-70/2.8 DG DN if funds allowed), either Sigma 100-400 (or Sony 200-600mm if funds allowed). Gives a minimum range of 17mm which is plenty wide for most applications and max of 900mm approx (using crop mode at 18mp).
Expensive end takes you to $5,500, inexpensive end takes you to around $4k. Gives you lots of room to play.
02-11-2021, 07:06 AM   #10
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What do you guys think of this tripod? amazon.com : Cayer BV25LH Video Tripod System, 74 inch Carbon Fiber Professional Heavy Duty Camera Tripod Kit, Twin Tube Tripod Leg with K3 Fluid Drag Head, 2 Pan Bar Handles, Max Loading 13.2 LB : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

I'll be changing the head. I like the weight it has. It should compete the lens nice and sturdy for most weather conditions. The price is also good. I'll most likely be using the lens free hands since it's faster for birding. However for different situations I think a tripod will come in handy.
02-11-2021, 07:33 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
What do you guys think of this tripod? amazon.com : Cayer BV25LH Video Tripod System, 74 inch Carbon Fiber Professional Heavy Duty Camera Tripod Kit, Twin Tube Tripod Leg with K3 Fluid Drag Head, 2 Pan Bar Handles, Max Loading 13.2 LB : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

I'll be changing the head. I like the weight it has. It should compete the lens nice and sturdy for most weather conditions. The price is also good. I'll most likely be using the lens free hands since it's faster for birding. However for different situations I think a tripod will come in handy.
I can't speak conclusively haven't not tried one before (might be worth trying to see one in person) but it looks good. Looks sturdy/solid and the panning handles look useful.
02-11-2021, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #12
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While Iíve seen some reviews that suggest the 100-400 is less sharp my own review of the sample files was less conclusive. You are right that the 200-600 is sharper that the 100-400 with a teleconverter - and potentially much faster. If the weight works for you then itís a viable option. I would suggest looking at the 1.4x converter more closely if the a7riii is your target body. The images Iíve seen were excellent with that combo.
02-11-2021, 08:14 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
I hate to be 'that guy' but why are you so set on full-frame then? You'd be able to get some exceptionally capable cameras in the A6600, save a bit of money versus a A7Riii or A7Riv (or A9, because frankly 24mp is fine for most, myself included as an A7iii user) and you'd have the additional reach of the APS-C sensor. There are some good wider options available for APS-C nowadays.
If you mean the not-yet-released A7iv, then it's a guessing game as to when that'll be made available.
What UncleVanya also means is that you would not need a separate Sony APS-C camera if you had the A7Riv, given the ability to use crop mode at 26mp in camera. This also largely removes your requirement for a 2x t/c.
If you're not reliant on high megapixel count, as you mentioned, then even the A7Riii would suffice with a crop mode resolution of 18mp.
I don't know how much real-world sharpness MTF tests translate to, but most (if not all) photos I've seen with either the 100-400 or 200-600 have been immensely sharp.

If I had $7,000 right now and I wanted to fill your brief I'd probably go A7Riii, Tamron 17-28mm f/2.8, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 (or sigma 24-70/2.8 DG DN if funds allowed), either Sigma 100-400 (or Sony 200-600mm if funds allowed). Gives a minimum range of 17mm which is plenty wide for most applications and max of 900mm approx (using crop mode at 18mp).
Expensive end takes you to $5,500, inexpensive end takes you to around $4k. Gives you lots of room to play.
I've used a APS-C camera for years, and have dealt with all of the shortcomings of using a cropped sensor. I want better features, better bokeh, better low light capabilities, better noise control, faster AF, and Faster FPS. I want to be able to use any FF lens, and not have to worry about what the aperture is going to be, what the actual mm is, etc. I understood what UncleVanya meant. I just don't feel it is worth wasting a extra grand on a 2MP difference when I already have a APS-C that I can use for more reach, if need be. The teleconverters slow it down to f/9 and f/13 respectively. Autofocus still works, but struggles under dull lighting. If you want to boost the range, youíre really better off mounting the lens on an A6xxx series APS-C body, which gives you an Ďeffectiveí 300-900mm zoom range. I also don't want to spend money on older tech when the newer A7IV will have updated specs. The A7IV will have better AF, and be an overall better camera for my purposes. The only thing the R series has going for it is MP. The MP of the updated A7IV sensor is more than enough for my portraiture, wildlife, landscape, and event purposes. I also dislike the noise those higher MP cameras tend to introduce. Than you have to waste more time in post degrading the photograph to mask the noise. Also, keep in mind that I like to adapt vintage glass. It would be counter intuitive to handicap my collection by allowing those lenses to be outresolved on a 60MP that is useless for my purposes. I don't believe more MP equates to pro quality. Sadly most users have that misconception. Hope I'm not offending anyone either. That's not my intentions. I'm just stating my honest opinion. Thanks for the lens recommendations.

---------- Post added 02-11-21 at 08:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Benz3ne Quote
I can't speak conclusively haven't not tried one before (might be worth trying to see one in person) but it looks good. Looks sturdy/solid and the panning handles look useful.
I figure it beats the average paid sponsor Youtuber that recommended the $1000.00 tripod that only weighs 4LB, lol. I also lift weights so before anyone comes in and says "but it weighs 18LB!" Go eat a banana.😋
02-11-2021, 08:26 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
The teleconverters slow it down to f/9 and f/13 respectively.
That's why I recommend TCs be used only with ƒ2.8 glass, or possibly ƒ4.
QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
I've used a APS-C camera for years, and have dealt with all of the shortcomings of using a cropped sensor. I want better features, better bokeh, better low light capabilities, better noise control, faster AF, and Faster FPS.
QuoteQuote:
I've used a APS-C camera for years, and have dealt with all of the shortcomings of using a cropped sensor. I want better features, better bokeh, better low light capabilities, better noise control, faster AF, and Faster FPS.
Sounds like you've used some pretty crappy APS-c cameras.

You need to attach some specs to the features you want improved. Better, suggests we know what you find inadequate, and we don't. The fastest I've used my K-1 with my DA*55 1.4 in the field is ƒ2. I can match that on APS-c by shooting at ƒ1.4. Sometimes these numbers don't mean what you think they will.
02-11-2021, 08:43 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prince Harbinger Quote
I've used a APS-C camera for years, and have dealt with all of the shortcomings of using a cropped sensor. I want better features, better bokeh, better low light capabilities, better noise control, faster AF, and Faster FPS. I want to be able to use any FF lens, and not have to worry about what the aperture is going to be, what the actual mm is, etc. I understood what UncleVanya meant. I just don't feel it is worth wasting a extra grand on a 2MP difference when I already have a APS-C that I can use for more reach, if need be. The teleconverters slow it down to f/9 and f/13 respectively. Autofocus still works, but struggles under dull lighting. If you want to boost the range, you’re really better off mounting the lens on an A6xxx series APS-C body, which gives you an ‘effective’ 300-900mm zoom range. I also don't want to spend money on older tech when the newer A7IV will have updated specs. The A7IV will have better AF, and be an overall better camera for my purposes. The only thing the R series has going for it is MP. The MP of the updated A7IV sensor is more than enough for my portraiture, wildlife, landscape, and event purposes. I also dislike the noise those higher MP cameras tend to introduce. Than you have to waste more time in post degrading the photograph to mask the noise. Also, keep in mind that I like to adapt vintage glass. It would be counter intuitive to handicap my collection by allowing those lenses to be outresolved on a 60MP that is useless for my purposes. I don't believe more MP equates to pro quality. Sadly most users have that misconception. Hope I'm not offending anyone either. That's not my intentions. I'm just stating my honest opinion. Thanks for the lens recommendations.

---------- Post added 02-11-21 at 08:23 AM ----------



I figure it beats the average paid sponsor Youtuber that recommended the $1000.00 tripod that only weighs 4LB, lol. I also lift weights so before anyone comes in and says "but it weighs 18LB!" Go eat a banana.��
Nothing wrong with a heavy tripod, really! As long as it's what you're comfortable carrying that's what matters. It's all about compromise.

As for your comments on the 60MP sensor etc. Bear in mind this - you're using a 24MP APS-C with a pixel pitch of 3.93Ķm. A 42MP A7Riii has a pixel pitch of 4.51Ķm (bigger pixels, more light per pixel, theoretically lower noise, lower pixel density). Only if you're finding your current APS-C out-resolves your vintage lenses, in the portion covered by the APS-C sensor, does stipulating that a 60MP FF sensor would do the same (A7Riv for comparison 3.73Ķm). Ergo the crop mode equalling 26MP in the latter.
Hope I'm not offending if you already considered that, but it wasn't evident from your response above.

Back to your T/C argument - if you can boost the range at no detriment versus an APS-C camera, whilst not having to carry said APS-C camera, then I'd say it's beneficial. As you rightly point out, whether it's '$1,000' beneficial (what-versus-what what exactly?) then that's a financial choice (but would seemingly fit into your $7k brief).

It's all fairly speculative anyway, given the A7iv has not been released yet, so whether that will actually fit the bill for you remains to be seen. Difficult for us to give valuable recommendations in the meantime when we don't know a definite price for the camera you want.
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