[surfar]

how about just listening to the company themself?

Nikon have made public statements saying they expect to be in profit at the end of this fiscal year.I hope they can do it,

Camera sales ebb and flow,I'll look forward to seeing them in the black hopefully.

[mee]

I’d be careful listening to company releases, too...

A record quarter for a market space you’ve been in how long? Even including the 1 series, that’s not saying much...

“The segment is profitable...except... expenses...”
That’s obviously an intentionally skewed reading of the release, but there’s a lot of room for interpretation there.

In any event, I think the truth is complicated, and I expect Nikon has a lot of worried people trying to make reality read more like mee’s reading of the release and less like the “hit piece”

It's only complicated if one wants to make it complicated.


Nikon did the same thing Ricoh did with Pentax (restructure), except Nikon is a bigger player in the market so you'll still see more products. If Pentax is not exiting, neither is Nikon.

And it's all for the better to have choice in the market. If you don't get your news from alt fake sites you'll see 2nd gen Z bodies are hard to come by due to high demand. Adorama and B&H (the two largest retailers) can't keep them in stock. The numbers in the article include low cost cheap compacts too.


In reality this is likely a big money short seller funding this 'article' that wants to depreciate Nikon share price (that has been INCREASING). These kinds of hit pieces happen all the time for similar to exact reasons. Because they know the naive reader will take the bait.

[surfar]

I’d be careful listening to company releases, too...

They have to be defensive,so what they say are only words at that moment.

Sony took plenty of CaNik customers,plenty of the Canon people kept using EF on Sony.Some have returned to Canon.I think Nikon expected plenty to return and not that many did.

I expect Nikon has a lot of worried people

With the contraction of the camera market,all the companies would have some concern.Plenty of brands have gone before.JIP have cut the Olympus staff by around half.Nikon relocated manufacturing to a lower cost country.It'll be interesting to see what happens over these next few years of a Covid influenced world.

[mee]

Camera sales ebb and flow,I'll look forward to seeing them in the black hopefully.

They're already in the black, if you remove the restructuring costs and just look at sales.

Actually I just looked into the numbers. Nikon mirrorless marketshare went from around 4.5pct in 2018 to 7.5pct in 2020. They're GROWING.

[TwoUptons]

It's only complicated if you want to make it complicated. And you're one of those FUD purveyors.


A year ago when Pentax was silent and the japanese media were reporting that they were circling the drain, you had no problem accepting that the news was fake. But now that you want to see a different camera maker die, you're willing to escape reality and believe the obvious fake news.


Nikon did the same thing Ricoh did with Pentax (restructure), except Nikon is a bigger player in the market so you'll still see more products. If Pentax is not exiting, neither is Nikon. I hate to destroy your fantasy of watching Nikon die.

And it's all for the better to have choice in the market. If you don't get your news from alt fake sites you'll see 2nd gen Z bodies are hard to come by due to high demand. Adorama and B&H (the two largest retailers) can't keep them in stock. The numbers in the article include low cost cheap compacts too.


In reality this is likely a big money short seller funding this 'article' that wants to depreciate Nikon share price (that has been INCREASING). These kinds of hit pieces happen all the time for similar to exact reasons. Because they know the naive reader will take the bait.


No snarky smiley face required.

Wow. You completely misinterpreted what I wrote. My apologies for being unclear.

-Eric

[surfar]

Nikon mirrorless marketshare went from around 4.5pct in 2018

The Z mount was released in 2018...it went from 0 to 4.5% in the August to December period and has grown 3% in the next 2and a bit years!

Looks likes like GROWING to MEE,looks like slow growth to me!

So far, 30 months since the mount was launched,the Nikon faithful havent quite shown the faith that Nikon would have expected.

[mee]

The Z mount was released in 2018...it went from 0 to 4.5% in the August to December period and has grown 3% in the next 2and a bit years!

Looks likes like GROWING to MEE,looks like slow growth to me!

So far, 30 months since the mount was launched,the Nikon faithful havent quite shown the faith that Nikon would have expected.

Wow now you're going admit they're growing, but spin it as a negative because it's too slow for you.

Growth is growth. They're going to remain as third in the market so long as Sony and Canon remain in the market. And that's okay.


Because Sony had the mirrorless market for too long and 3rd parties gravitated around them and Canon (adapters and lenses) since Canon had/has the DSLR market. There is no need to be number one or two. You know as well as anyone, having used Pentax cameras, that it doesn't matter what position their in so long as they're in. And they're in.


The fact that their share is growing is a positive.

[surfar]

Wow now you're going admit they're growing, but spin it as a negative because it's too slow for you.

I deal in facts,so lets look at this profitable quarter.

But first the first profitable period,Late 2018 for the Z mount.EARLY adopters...0 to 4.5% CaCHING$ for Nikon.

The most recent quarter just happens to coincide with the EARLY adopter period of the Z6ii and Z7ii.

Funny thing is all new stuff enjoys this surge of sales...I'll look forward to the next quarters figures,they could be better,who knows?Maybe the faithful who didnt like the Z6/7 will ditch the dslr?

The reality is,these 2nd gen bodies should have come in 2018,When Nikon "redefined mirrorless" or whatever their marketing propaganda was.( i watched it live).
Late to the party while CaNony have been rocking and rolling along.

They under achieved.

it doesn't matter what position their in so long as they're in.

Yes,for the moment.the big picture may be a different thing completely.

[Kiddo70]

I'm been happy to have Pentax MILC or not. Just passed 53 years of ownership of various Pentax models.

No offense, but every time I see your handle, it reminds me of a grave marker at Boot Hill in Tombstone, Arizona. And I quote: “Here lies Lester More. Four shots from a 44. No Les, no More.”

[surfar]

They're going to remain as third in the market

The thread is about M/L market share of Japanese makers, they look to be a solid 5th at this point in time.

[LeeRunge]

A recent look at market share of MILCs shows a poor uptake of Z system.

Sony 35%

Canon 30%

Fuji 12%

In the grave(JIP) 8%... used to come under Olympus

On life support, Nikon 7.5%

Lost....panasonic.


?????????????? ???????????????????????????

The Z6ii/7ii has been unobtanium at BH and Adorama since the beginning of December. I wonder what these stats will look like mid-year. Either they can't make them or they're selling them out.

---------- Post added 03-04-2021 at 11:11 AM ----------

The Z mount was released in 2018...it went from 0 to 4.5% in the August to December period and has grown 3% in the next 2and a bit years!

Looks likes like GROWING to MEE,looks like slow growth to me!

So far, 30 months since the mount was launched,the Nikon faithful havent quite shown the faith that Nikon would have expected.

Canon stuff is nice but it's much more expensive than either the Z5/6ii/7ii at the moment and out of reach for many. Also they won't weather seal the inexpensive lenses which is disappointing and you get fully sealed everything with the Z system. I think Nikon's more for the money at the moment honestly for most people. We'll see if Canon releases something under 2k that can compete. They seem to have already gone down the "upsell to L glass for sealing" route that both Nikon and Canon played in the past, Nikon didn't this time.

Reality for Nikon is the D850 is a really good camera and the Z system doesn't outperform it. Those customers won't budge until something gives them a reason. It sold out instantly in December when they dropped it down to 2500 in price for a holiday sale.

[beholder3]

A recent look at market share of MILCs shows a poor uptake of Z system.

Business Journal has published a speculative report on whether Nikon will withdraw from the camera business or not. The article presents objective facts that make it seem as if Nikon may be withdrawing.

I think it was around 5 years ago that there was this analysis done about Nikon's chances for survival and the result was negative.
Basically the predictions have come true by now.

Nikon's shown a poor choice of products being published and even the old, deeply invested Nikon photographers out there have been rightfully reluctant to buy in at the price levels presented by Nikon initially.

This ended up with the situation where Nikon now is only the choice for those wanting cheap (cameras. The lenses are still ridiculously expensive compared to DSLR offerings).


You will not find anyone from Canon or Pana or Sony switch to Nikon.

[LeeRunge]

Wow now you're going admit they're growing, but spin it as a negative because it's too slow for you.

Growth is growth. They're going to remain as third in the market so long as Sony and Canon remain in the market. And that's okay.


Because Sony had the mirrorless market for too long and 3rd parties gravitated around them and Canon (adapters and lenses) since Canon had/has the DSLR market. There is no need to be number one or two. You know as well as anyone, having used Pentax cameras, that it doesn't matter what position their in so long as they're in. And they're in.


The fact that their share is growing is a positive.

I agree they'll hit third place probably this year or next. If they drop a flagship that is "the bestest eye af in the woooorld" that can track mosquito eyes under a new moon then probably faster. They restructured and took the financial hits from a rapidly shrinking market but they have a good system with the Z body's and lenses and people will move over in time.

---------- Post added 03-04-2021 at 11:28 AM ----------

I think it was around 5 years ago that there was this analysis done about Nikon's chances for survival and the result was negative.
Basically the predictions have come true by now.

Nikon's shown a poor choice of products being published and even the old, deeply invested Nikon photographers out there have been rightfully reluctant to buy in at the price levels presented by Nikon initially.

This ended up with the situation where Nikon now is only the choice for those wanting cheap (cameras. The lenses are still ridiculously expensive compared to DSLR offerings).


You will not find anyone from Canon or Pana or Sony switch to Nikon.

I don't think a lot of Nikon users are jumping to those brands either, moreso waiting. The D850/500/750 are all really good if not the best in class DSLR's that still hold up fine in many cases or better (BIF) against MILC's. Why would you switch? It'll take Nikon soundly outperforming its own products to lure people en masse. For now, they're on backorder for months for the Z6ii and Z7ii which means either they're selling them as fast as they can make them or they can't make them.

Situation with wanting cheap cameras? This makes no sense. The D750 was the same list price roughly as the Z6 at launch, same with Z7 and D850. So now that Canon upsells their product and Nikon remained at the same price point it's "cheap"? Sounds more like more value for the price for a Nikon customer and Canon users have to pay more. That's likely a competitive advantage of moving all production to Thailand and Canon remaining in Japan with more expensive labor.

Sony routinely massively discounts the previous model which if you were looking for the "cheap" route that would be it. The A7R2 costs $1600 right now.

[mee]

The thread is about M/L market share of Japanese makers, they look to be a solid 5th at this point in time.

I deal in facts,so lets look at this profitable quarter.

But first the first profitable period,Late 2018 for the Z mount.EARLY adopters...0 to 4.5% CaCHING$ for Nikon.

The most recent quarter just happens to coincide with the EARLY adopter period of the Z6ii and Z7ii.

Funny thing is all new stuff enjoys this surge of sales...I'll look forward to the next quarters figures,they could be better,who knows?Maybe the faithful who didnt like the Z6/7 will ditch the dslr?

The reality is,these 2nd gen bodies should have come in 2018,When Nikon "redefined mirrorless" or whatever their marketing propaganda was.( i watched it live).
Late to the party while CaNony have been rocking and rolling along.

They under achieved.



Yes,for the moment.the big picture may be a different thing completely.

You hate Nikon and want to see them disappear. They can do no right by you. Every positive is really a negative. I get it.


Now if you can get over yourself, you'll see Nikon isn't going anywhere. Your 'facts' should include they are gaining marketshare and are profitable if you take their restructuring costs off the books. So the general business model is working.

I know, I know you have to kick the can down the street and say 'check for next quarter' and if they're profitable say 'check the next quarter after that' until you find one that they do very poorly in then explain 'ah ha see I knew it all along they're dooooomed'

[mee]

The Z6ii/7ii has been unobtanium at BH and Adorama since the beginning of December. I wonder what these stats will look like mid-year. Either they can't make them or they're selling them out.

---------- Post added 03-04-2021 at 11:11 AM ----------



Canon stuff is nice but it's much more expensive than either the Z5/6ii/7ii at the moment and out of reach for many. Also they won't weather seal the inexpensive lenses which is disappointing and you get fully sealed everything with the Z system. I think Nikon's more for the money at the moment honestly for most people. We'll see if Canon releases something under 2k that can compete. They seem to have already gone down the "upsell to L glass for sealing" route that both Nikon and Canon played in the past, Nikon didn't this time.

Reality for Nikon is the D850 is a really good camera and the Z system doesn't outperform it. Those customers won't budge until something gives them a reason. It sold out instantly in December when they dropped it down to 2500 in price for a holiday sale.

Yeah they're fine. I think we'll see a D880 like they did with the D750 -> D780 soon enough. They just released a new firmware for the 2nd gen Z's that improves AF even more. They've launched a shedton of lenses in the past 2 years and have more on the way.


But now suddenly because a japanese 'news' site, known for clickbait drama, says Nikon is going in the can that's taken as factual and the sky is falling. It's dumb.

Let's pump the brakes on doomsaying here.