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04-26-2021, 06:27 AM - 1 Like   #61
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Firmware update to Z5:

Nikon | Download center | Z 5 Firmware

Made a massive difference to low light focusing speed even with my slow kit lens!

04-26-2021, 07:10 AM - 1 Like   #62
mee
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Quick test confirms the same here. In low light it locks faster now without the AF assist lamp. Much more usable now.


And in no light (tried in room with lights turned off and door closed), in a setting where the AF assist green lamp can reach and enabled, it still locks fast. That's a very hostile situation for a camera locking focus and one I'd never realistically shoot in.


Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.
04-26-2021, 07:44 AM - 2 Likes   #63
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Yeah that was awesome Nikon bumped the Low light on the Z5. That was one of the weak spots vs the 6 series, even more value now!

---------- Post added 04-26-2021 at 07:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Z5 and adapter came today.

Initial Honeymoon Phase thoughts:


Size and Handling

This thing is small. It is the same size in terms of height and width as my K-5 II yet this is full frame. It's so small I'm glad I bought the Meike bracket as it gives a place for my pinky to rest. Now it's a comfortable size for me. And my tripod quick-release plate screwed into the bottom of the bracket so my camera doesn't tilt when sitting on a flat surface.

The camera feels really nice. It reminds me of the K-5 II in that regard as well. It is solid and yet not heavy at all. I like it more in this department than my D750.


Viewfinder Experience

I was interested in the viewfinder since I only had so-so experiences with EVFs in the past. Mostly a generation older bodies (A7II and older OMD) that were passable but not pleasant. This is obviously a generation better. It's still obvious it's an EVF and not an OVF but it doesn't feel like you have a tiny TV screen next to your eye at least. So better there than previous gen EVFs.

One super feature is the zoom mode. You get the ability to multi times zoom into your focus point through the viewfinder! It makes just about any lens a digital spotting scope. But more so useful for dialing in focus with manual focus lenses. No more guessing you just know immediately.

Nikon mentioned early on that they tried to make the EVF as natural as possible but didn't spend a lot of resources on refresh rate. I'd say that's accurate. I have sensitive eyes to refresh (since I stare at screens for most of the day), and I only notice it when moving the camera back and forth rapidly. That does cause a fair bit of blur through the viewfinder. I read the 2nd gen Z's improved upon this though. And of course the upcoming Z9 will surely improve upon it even more soon. So it isn't just a permanent mark on them.

And, actually, in my type of AF-S single point focus shooting with portraits and such it shouldn't be a problem at all.

One caveat -- I noticed a bit of obvious chop in the refresh in my really dimly lit room with the manual focus lens briefly. It wasn't all the time just a couple seconds and no more. Not sure why or what it was but it is worth noting. Also the EVF attempts to keep everything visible even in a room with no lighting. So the IQ through the EVF goes to pot then. I suspect I can disable it from trying to amplify the signal and just behave more like a DSLR, but I haven't specifically dug into the settings for that.


Autofocus System


Which brings me to the autofocus system. It's fun having wall to wall and top to bottom AF points and a joystick. No focus and recompose anymore.

I haven't spent any time whatsoever yet on the AF-C as the sun went down before this and it was a cool day out anyways. Plenty of time to test that out later.

I will say the AF is excellent in locking focus on the single point in my tests today. And in doing so has seemingly made all my lenses seem sharper as they are all essentially maximally 'micro adjusted' now. My Tamron 70-210 f/4 is mondo sharp and it seems the camera allows the lens to use it's own stabilization which is neat. Can use either in body or in lens.

This is also a bit of a negative in that this camera has now shown to me which lenses are really sharp and which are only okay sharp haha. So I see some exchanging of lenses in my future. At least one or two.


Other thoughts and Manual Focus lens test

Hmmm. Other thoughts -- I did have to spent quite a bit of time in setting up the camera to be as DSLR-ish as possible. Most in setting up the EVF and some of the quick menus I was used to. White balance and Color profiles matter too as they are replicated through the viewfinder. I was able to setup a custom WB and color prof that made the EVF match more closely to what I see with my eyes. Out of the box the colors were a bit too vivid and yellowish. After configuring it looks great.

Finally I tested manual focus lenses. Or, in this case lens (singular) -- a Nikon 35mm f/2.5 Series E lens. Used to belong to my dad when he shot with a Nikon film setup, now passed down to me.


I noticed that IBIS was disabled and greyed out in the menu. Quickly I realized it never asked me for lens info so that had to be why. Sure enough I had to go into the settings and give it a focal length and maximum aperture. After that I could hear the IBIS kick in and off we go. It is quite pleasant to shoot manual with the EVF. Much more so than with OVFs in my experiences. Between Focus Peaking in the viewfinder and the zoom multipliers, it is incredibly easy to get focus anywhere you want and without any guess work.


I'm now looking forward to getting a nice K adapter to use my M primes on it. Even with an adapter, these smaller MF primes make for a nice tidy kit! Definitely not winning the sharpness tests but I find it a pleasure endeavor. To get away from all the fighting and angst in the world.

Now I kind of want to take tomorrow off of work and just walk around with the new Z haha.


One other thing -- responsiveness. This camera is not sluggish to menu choices or even turning on and off like the K-1 I owned did (I think it was under powered CPU wise). The Z5 seems more like my D750 or K-5 II in that regard (peppy). There is a very brief delay in turning on but from on to holding by ones eye its ready to go. And menu diving is really quick. It just feels alive in that regard.

I'll probably give longer term impressions (after the honeymoon is over, if it ends) at a later date if anyone is interested. Personally, I'd pick this over a Z6 gen 1 if you were just after adapting manual focuses lenses on a mirrorless full frame body. The advantages to the Z6 gen 1 were in the improved low light autofocusing (a stop better) and also in improved movie mode support as well as burst rate (Z5 peters out at 4.5 fps [Same as K-1] but has a bigger buffer -- on UHS-II cards you can shoot up to 30s before it slows down). Z5 has dual SD slots, Z6 gen 1 has a single XQD/CFast type B slot. so keep that in mind.

Addendum:


The Z5 doesn't support 3rd party batteries. I had read this before, but just tested to confirm. The OEM battery from my D750 works in the Z5. Of course the Z5's own battery works with it, but a 3rd party Watson does not. I actually get an error screen saying I need to use a battery 'designated for use' with the camera (meaning OEM$batteries). So something to keep in mind.

Also, the shutter is gorgeous. Or, rather, the lack of shutter noise. It is just a faint 'click' and nothing like the CLA-CLUNK on DSLRs. And that is with mechanical shutter enabled. In silent mode (Electronic shutter) there is no sound at all. Super handy for settings where noise must be kept at a minimum!

I actually had audible gasps when I shot a wedding with the K-1 once after the shutter went off. Not going to happen here or on any mirrorless. FYI.
If you need it in a pinch you can configure video mode to shoot AF-C stills at 30fps for 8mp. You'll need to adjust the delay on the AF (for video so it' not snapping all over, but you'll need it fastest for stills). I've found this useful for stuff that 8mp is fine for. If it's setup also the Z5 remembers the last video setting so you can just use the video lever as an action setting mode if needed.

It's great that Nikon's still refining it with the other models with firmware, these camera's just keep getting better.
04-26-2021, 08:47 AM   #64
mee
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First off it's good to 'see' you here, Lee!


QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
If you need it in a pinch you can configure video mode to shoot AF-C stills at 30fps for 8mp.
Ooh is that a specific setting? How do I get the individual still frames via video mode?


QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
It's great that Nikon's still refining it with the other models with firmware, these camera's just keep getting better.
Agreed. Functional items too.

04-26-2021, 09:36 AM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
First off it's good to 'see' you here, Lee!




Ooh is that a specific setting? How do I get the individual still frames via video mode?




Agreed. Functional items too.
In video mode Set AF-C for focus mode, and continuous (lower right button) frames, then in movie in custom settings G4/G5 to fastest settings or it's going to be sluggish by default as it's set for smooth transitions for video. Set quality to 4k 30fps. Then just use the shutter button for stills and movie button to record. The buffer is just a few seconds but is ready almost instantly after letting off the shutter due to the 100 frame per burst limit. It's pretty useful for grabbing stills of the pups or motorcycle or things like that where on social media 8mp is overkill anyway.

I updated the firmware and it did make low light quite a bit faster than before which is cool as that was probably my only regret with getting the Z5. It always worked pretty well with the 1.8's but now the 24-200 is way more usable in low light then before which is great as that's my go-to one lens setup for riding the motorcycle now. It's easily outperforming my K-3 with 18-250 in low light now and the K-3 I think was rated to -3 EV.

Last edited by LeeRunge; 04-26-2021 at 09:48 AM.
04-26-2021, 09:54 AM   #66
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
In video mode Set AF-C for focus mode, and continuous (lower right button) frames, then in movie in custom settings G4/G5 to fastest settings or it's going to be sluggish by default as it's set for smooth transitions for video. Set quality to 4k 30fps. Then just use the shutter button for stills and movie button to record. The buffer is just a few seconds but is ready almost instantly after letting off the shutter due to the 100 frame per burst limit. It's pretty useful for grabbing stills of the pups or motorcycle or things like that where on social media 8mp is overkill anyway.

I updated the firmware and it did make low light quite a bit faster than before which is cool as that was probably my only regret with getting the Z5. It always worked pretty well with the 1.8's but now the 24-200 is way more usable in low light then before which is great as that's my go-to one lens setup for riding the motorcycle now. It's easily outperforming my K-3 with 18-250 in low light now and the K-3 I think was rated to -3 EV.
Thanks for taking the time to detail all the settings. I didn't even notice that lower right button. That's really interesting. Looks like its only JPGs and, of course, E-shutter but still really handy.
04-26-2021, 10:36 AM - 1 Like   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Thanks for taking the time to detail all the settings. I didn't even notice that lower right button. That's really interesting. Looks like its only JPGs and, of course, E-shutter but still really handy.
No problem. It's limited but still a handy feature for when you need more than 4.5fps. Although 4.5 works for most subjects fine.

04-26-2021, 12:07 PM   #68
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
No problem. It's limited but still a handy feature for when you need more than 4.5fps. Although 4.5 works for most subjects fine.
Water drops captures could be fun with this feature.

Used to take a ton of trial and error until I timed it right. With this I can just mash the button and pull out the frames I want.



Yes 4.5 fps for much of my uses these days is sufficient. If I was really into sports or wildlife, I'd consider a D500 on the side.
04-27-2021, 06:15 PM - 1 Like   #69
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Z5 and adapter came today.

Initial Honeymoon Phase thoughts:


Size and Handling

This thing is small. It is the same size in terms of height and width as my K-5 II yet this is full frame. It's so small I'm glad I bought the Meike bracket as it gives a place for my pinky to rest. Now it's a comfortable size for me. And my tripod quick-release plate screwed into the bottom of the bracket so my camera doesn't tilt when sitting on a flat surface.

The camera feels really nice. It reminds me of the K-5 II in that regard as well. It is solid and yet not heavy at all. I like it more in this department than my D750.


Viewfinder Experience

I was interested in the viewfinder since I only had so-so experiences with EVFs in the past. Mostly a generation older bodies (A7II and older OMD) that were passable but not pleasant. This is obviously a generation better. It's still obvious it's an EVF and not an OVF but it doesn't feel like you have a tiny TV screen next to your eye at least. So better there than previous gen EVFs.

One super feature is the zoom mode. You get the ability to multi times zoom into your focus point through the viewfinder! It makes just about any lens a digital spotting scope. But more so useful for dialing in focus with manual focus lenses. No more guessing you just know immediately.

Nikon mentioned early on that they tried to make the EVF as natural as possible but didn't spend a lot of resources on refresh rate. I'd say that's accurate. I have sensitive eyes to refresh (since I stare at screens for most of the day), and I only notice it when moving the camera back and forth rapidly. That does cause a fair bit of blur through the viewfinder. I read the 2nd gen Z's improved upon this though. And of course the upcoming Z9 will surely improve upon it even more soon. So it isn't just a permanent mark on them.

And, actually, in my type of AF-S single point focus shooting with portraits and such it shouldn't be a problem at all.

One caveat -- I noticed a bit of obvious chop in the refresh in my really dimly lit room with the manual focus lens briefly. It wasn't all the time just a couple seconds and no more. Not sure why or what it was but it is worth noting. Also the EVF attempts to keep everything visible even in a room with no lighting. So the IQ through the EVF goes to pot then. I suspect I can disable it from trying to amplify the signal and just behave more like a DSLR, but I haven't specifically dug into the settings for that.


Autofocus System


Which brings me to the autofocus system. It's fun having wall to wall and top to bottom AF points and a joystick. No focus and recompose anymore.

I haven't spent any time whatsoever yet on the AF-C as the sun went down before this and it was a cool day out anyways. Plenty of time to test that out later.

I will say the AF is excellent in locking focus on the single point in my tests today. And in doing so has seemingly made all my lenses seem sharper as they are all essentially maximally 'micro adjusted' now. My Tamron 70-210 f/4 is mondo sharp and it seems the camera allows the lens to use it's own stabilization which is neat. Can use either in body or in lens.

This is also a bit of a negative in that this camera has now shown to me which lenses are really sharp and which are only okay sharp haha. So I see some exchanging of lenses in my future. At least one or two.


Other thoughts and Manual Focus lens test

Hmmm. Other thoughts -- I did have to spent quite a bit of time in setting up the camera to be as DSLR-ish as possible. Most in setting up the EVF and some of the quick menus I was used to. White balance and Color profiles matter too as they are replicated through the viewfinder. I was able to setup a custom WB and color prof that made the EVF match more closely to what I see with my eyes. Out of the box the colors were a bit too vivid and yellowish. After configuring it looks great.

Finally I tested manual focus lenses. Or, in this case lens (singular) -- a Nikon 35mm f/2.5 Series E lens. Used to belong to my dad when he shot with a Nikon film setup, now passed down to me.


I noticed that IBIS was disabled and greyed out in the menu. Quickly I realized it never asked me for lens info so that had to be why. Sure enough I had to go into the settings and give it a focal length and maximum aperture. After that I could hear the IBIS kick in and off we go. It is quite pleasant to shoot manual with the EVF. Much more so than with OVFs in my experiences. Between Focus Peaking in the viewfinder and the zoom multipliers, it is incredibly easy to get focus anywhere you want and without any guess work.


I'm now looking forward to getting a nice K adapter to use my M primes on it. Even with an adapter, these smaller MF primes make for a nice tidy kit! Definitely not winning the sharpness tests but I find it a pleasure endeavor. To get away from all the fighting and angst in the world.

Now I kind of want to take tomorrow off of work and just walk around with the new Z haha.


One other thing -- responsiveness. This camera is not sluggish to menu choices or even turning on and off like the K-1 I owned did (I think it was under powered CPU wise). The Z5 seems more like my D750 or K-5 II in that regard (peppy). There is a very brief delay in turning on but from on to holding by ones eye its ready to go. And menu diving is really quick. It just feels alive in that regard.

I'll probably give longer term impressions (after the honeymoon is over, if it ends) at a later date if anyone is interested. Personally, I'd pick this over a Z6 gen 1 if you were just after adapting manual focuses lenses on a mirrorless full frame body. The advantages to the Z6 gen 1 were in the improved low light autofocusing (a stop better) and also in improved movie mode support as well as burst rate (Z5 peters out at 4.5 fps [Same as K-1] but has a bigger buffer -- on UHS-II cards you can shoot up to 30s before it slows down). Z5 has dual SD slots, Z6 gen 1 has a single XQD/CFast type B slot. so keep that in mind.

Addendum:


The Z5 doesn't support 3rd party batteries. I had read this before, but just tested to confirm. The OEM battery from my D750 works in the Z5. Of course the Z5's own battery works with it, but a 3rd party Watson does not. I actually get an error screen saying I need to use a battery 'designated for use' with the camera (meaning OEM$batteries). So something to keep in mind.

Also, the shutter is gorgeous. Or, rather, the lack of shutter noise. It is just a faint 'click' and nothing like the CLA-CLUNK on DSLRs. And that is with mechanical shutter enabled. In silent mode (Electronic shutter) there is no sound at all. Super handy for settings where noise must be kept at a minimum!

I actually had audible gasps when I shot a wedding with the K-1 once after the shutter went off. Not going to happen here or on any mirrorless. FYI.
This is wonderful, thanks for the thorough review! Can't afford it now, even with the big discount, but one day...
04-27-2021, 07:01 PM - 1 Like   #70
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Z5 + FTZ adapter + 24-200 = $1794... mmmmmmmm

Edit: also, Z6 + FTZ adapter + 24-70/4 = $2094... also mmmmmmm, because the greater FPS is very useful for me.

Last edited by luftfluss; 04-27-2021 at 09:08 PM.
04-28-2021, 06:46 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
This is wonderful, thanks for the thorough review! Can't afford it now, even with the big discount, but one day...
You're most certainly welcome. I've seen 'like new' refurbished copies going for around $860 so they're cheap and will probably be a little cheaper over time. Probably near end of the year I expect another big sale.


QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Z5 + FTZ adapter + 24-200 = $1794... mmmmmmmm

Edit: also, Z6 + FTZ adapter + 24-70/4 = $2094... also mmmmmmm, because the greater FPS is very useful for me.
Yeah decisions, decisions. If you don't mind the single XQD card slot and the extra cost, the Z6 is a better camera (outside of larger the shadow banding at high EV pulls -- minor issue).


Get what makes you happiest within your budget is what I say! No use using a camera that just aggravates you.


I've been eyeing that 24-70 f/4 just to have a native Z lens to walk around with. But I keep thinking if Tamron get off their hineys and launch that 28-75 f/2.8 that is currently a Sony exclusive, I'd really want that more. So I stand in a state of indecision.
04-29-2021, 05:05 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Z5 + FTZ adapter + 24-200 = $1794... mmmmmmmm

Edit: also, Z6 + FTZ adapter + 24-70/4 = $2094... also mmmmmmm, because the greater FPS is very useful for me.
I use the 24-200 a lot with my Z5, it's just too convenient for travel. Either of those is a winner IMO. I do use the USB-C charging on the Z5 which the Z6 doesn't have when traveling too, one less item to drag around.
05-07-2021, 08:00 PM - 1 Like   #73
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Today I finally got to check out a Z5.

I didn't take too long with it, as I didn't intend to buy anything today and felt it was unfair to waste the salesman's time, although he was nice enough about everything. So for a few minutes I fondled a Z5 + 24-50 zoom.

Initial impressions: I like the body a lot. Seems well-built and solid (but light), the EVF is noticeably larger than the OVF on my Pentaxes and the image looked high-res and not harsh at all. The grip is at least as comfortable as that on my K-3 II (I'd probably get a battery grip, as I have one on my K-3 II). Shutter is very quiet. All in all, it feels like a tidy, comfortable, user-friendly package.

It is very tempting.

Last edited by luftfluss; 05-08-2021 at 07:03 AM.
05-08-2021, 10:48 AM   #74
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Today I finally got to check out a Z5.

I didn't take too long with it, as I didn't intend to buy anything today and felt it was unfair to waste the salesman's time, although he was nice enough about everything. So for a few minutes I fondled a Z5 + 24-50 zoom.

Initial impressions: I like the body a lot. Seems well-built and solid (but light), the EVF is noticeably larger than the OVF on my Pentaxes and the image looked high-res and not harsh at all. The grip is at least as comfortable as that on my K-3 II (I'd probably get a battery grip, as I have one on my K-3 II). Shutter is very quiet. All in all, it feels like a tidy, comfortable, user-friendly package.

It is very tempting.

Yes solid but light is how I'd say it too. Very much in line with the K-5/3 series bodies. I keep a battery grip on it now also.



I will say though now that honeymoon phase is fading I'm starting to find it's quirks. Or, more so, my quirks in relation to it's behavior.

There is a short delay in the EVF registering my eye is near the viewfinder, and thus I want to use the EVF (so turn it on!). I didn't notice it at first and it probably isn't an issue for the majority of people. But it really bugs me. I'm used to the spontaneity of a DSLR viewfinder being always present and always ready.

I usually spot what I want to capture (with my own eyes), put the camera up to my face, and snap the shot quickly before the scene is gone. I don't hold the camera to my face for long periods of time looking and scanning for something. So just a different style of shooting I suppose.


I've mitigated this, as best as possible, by putting a piece of tape on the eyecup over the viewfinder sensor. This triggers the viewfinder on at all times. Of course there is a battery use penalty. I'm mitigating that by having the camera 'hibernate' after a minute on. So the EVF isn't on entirely. It wakes up again if I half press the shutter release button.


But now that I've jury rigged the sensor, the finder its already ready always. And if I pull the camera away and look at the scene, it's still ready. No more tiny lag.


The other downside is now the EVF is always on so the rear panel doesn't enable (I have to remove the tape for that). haha I'm probably going to work a more functional workaround eventually if this.. sticks.



Hmmm and I'm not super fond of the location of the back control dial on top. I'm used to it being a little lower and inward into the body. That made it more usable, for me, to reach. This one, my thumb has to go out of the way to get to it. But the newer Pentaxes are the same. Looks like that's just how its done these days.

Nothing game breaking though. Just minor personal nags.

Last edited by mee; 05-08-2021 at 10:56 AM.
05-08-2021, 01:05 PM - 1 Like   #75
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Hmm, I didn't notice a delay in the EVF activating, but then again my mind was occupied with other things. I have read some Z-series users complain about the EVF delay, though. I wonder if a firmware update could address this.

Frankly, I was surprised at how much I liked the EVF - it's really nice. And the grip, too. I would go so far as to say that I prefer hold the Z5 to holding my K-3 II sans battery grip.

Given my current usage scenario - lots of wildlife photos with good (in some cases, maybe even premium) film-era lenses - 24MP FF sensor is not preferable to 24MP APS-C.

And I do have a fondness for my DA Limiteds - they are lovely and unique and enjoyable to use. That's my right-brain thinking. But my left-brain considers the 24-200 or 24-70/4 could be more useful than what I currently have, and I could sell a couple of my big-gun lenses and buy a 200-500/150-600 and a 1.4x TC. Very practical.

But. overall, I feel like I have an affordable choice I can be happy with, should my current gear fail or I simply feel like switching. It's a nice feeling.
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