Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-28-2021, 02:00 PM - 1 Like   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 192
Nikon z7 Pentax K-1

hi guys though i would post this as i am an avid fan of the Pentaxk-1 Ive got most of the lenses 31mm Ltd 43mm Ltd 77mm Ltd not many i haven't got Ive all so got the full collection of the Zeiss zk mount for Pentax and the zf.2 versions so having done a lot of testing with the k-1 and these lenses and pixel shift i started to wander is there much that can come close so i bought a Nikon z7 at first my eyes hurt with the evf and i sold it but then a good deal came up so i though i mainly do tripod stuff so gave it another try and to me its better than the k-1


i love my k-1 and will never sell it in fact i have a brand new one never opened that'show much i love that camera i love the 31mm Ltd and some of the Zeiss are superb


i got the z7 and 2470 f2.8 and 24 70mm f4 just to test but what i found was they are super sharp corner to corner but that's it no character the k-1 withthe 77mm has a 3d pop lots of character and i like the rendering like the 31mm and Zeiss


so i decided to buy a voigtlander lens the 40mm 1.2 for Sony e i purchased a tech art adapter to attach to my Nikon z7 and i have a lot of cameras and lenses and Ive never seen colour and rendering like it they are that good i will be getting them all and selling my Zeiss lenses i am not even keeping one of them that's how impressed i am with this setup


after a while my eyes have adjusted to the evf and i prey the next camera Pentax bring out is mirroless because the evf makes a huge difference


when i get a chance i will post some images with the voits


i did tests with pixel shift and the APO voits are sharper the focusing on the z7 is all so better than the k-1 i will never sell my k-1 but the z7 colours are amazing with these lenses


i am really spoilt for choice but have now decided to sell a lot of gear


one annoying thing on z7 is 2sec 5 sec timer wont stay saved when camera goes to sleep really annoying but that's about it


one more thing got a mint Pentax 28mm 3.5 M lens like new rather than mint not a mark on it and that lens i tested today and i was shocked how good it was if anyone asks i can put full version images on flicker .

08-28-2021, 11:12 PM - 2 Likes   #2
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
If you're shooting raw, it's a combination of the camera sensor, lens and - most importantly - the .dcp or .icc profile used by your raw development software that's resulting in the colours you like so much. If you're shooting straight-out-of-camera JPEGs, it's the camera's JPEG engine. The K-1 and any lens can produce exactly the same colours as the Z7 and any other lens by creating a suitable profile (a one-off and not-too-difficult task) and applying it during raw development.

Choice of lens - subject to availability on any chosen platform - is responsible for how sharp, aberration-free, flare-resistant and "characterful" the reendering will be. More than any other aspect, it's arguably the available glass that can make or break a system for each photographer individually, if image "quality" - again, a subjective thing - really matters to them... BUT, what one person values or prioritises in a lens, another may not, and vice versa. "Better" is subjective; at least with most modern lenses, since they all perform reasonably well.

So... colour rendering and performance of lenses are largely independent of the camera. Both the K-1 and Z7 should perform equally well here, if profiling is carried out and lenses are chosen wisely (both of which are entirely within the photographer's control).

What we're left with, then, is the AF performance and viewfinders of mirrorless and DSLR systems respectively, which is at the core of the ongoing mirrorless vs DSLR debate... a debate that can never be won in favour of either, since each offers certain benefits and downsides, and folks will always have differing use-cases and prefereneces (I shoot both, preferring each for different use-cases... but I far prefer an optical viewfinder when the situation allows).

That said, it's great you've found a system that works better for you. Enjoy the Z7... it's undoubtedly a fine camera, and you've picked some fine glass to go with it And, if you decide to hang on to the K-1 in the long run, look into creating profiles that give you the colours produced by the Z7 and Voigtländer lenses. That way, you'll have both systems capable of the same colour rendering, a choice of the lenses you like on each system, and the option to choose EVF or OVF as your use-case and/or mood dictate

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-29-2021 at 04:18 AM.
08-28-2021, 11:40 PM - 1 Like   #3
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,171
I read stuff like "much better" and "huge". I'm not sure if I understand English correctly, but for me having used a Z7 (borrowed) and having a K1, I can't say there is a lot of difference. If Z7 had 100Mpixels, then Ok, we would see a significant difference with the K1. The Z 24-70 f4 is not better than the Pentax D-FA 28-105, it's the same league kit lens, and it's not fully sharp corner to corner, at least not the copies I've tested. The Nikon Z 24-70 f4 isn't sharp corner to corner at the wide end, even stopped down, it's visible, that's why a number of Nikon users have upgraded to the Nikon Z 24-70 2.8 when it became available.

---------- Post added 29-08-21 at 08:47 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
k-1 i will never sell my k-1 but the z7 colours are amazing with these lenses
Use the Pentax bright JPEG style and bump contrast and saturation a bit, and you get that Nikon over-saturated look, it's that simple.
Personally, I see how Nikon JPEG images pop for landscape shots, but for people / skin tones shots I much prefer Canon JPEG style.

---------- Post added 29-08-21 at 08:50 ----------

At some point I looked at buying a Nikon Z7 because I was interested in getting the Z 20mm primes lens, I borrowed the kit and figured there wasn't much of a difference with my K1 that justified the cost of switching. Ricoh announced the up-coming DFA 21mm ltd, so, this is what I'll get.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-28-2021 at 11:50 PM.
08-29-2021, 01:42 AM   #4
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,379
A lot of testing and wandering around. You are correct, you buy the 77 for 3D pop and image drawing, not for sharpness. So why care about sharpness with other lenses. We are often carried away by performance values rather than image drawing. One should not care how much a camera is loved, but about results - the subjective part you mention. You just remind me to get (again) a copy of the 31ltd. Totally overpriced, noisy AF, not weather sealed, lens shade not allowing filter holders…, but the 3D pop even on K5 was something.

08-29-2021, 06:48 AM   #5
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 192
Original Poster
the white balance of the z7 is far better than my k-1 and the focus accuracy is better i wont sell my k-1 i have icc profiles for both cameras and my monitor is calibrated even the sony a7rv with the voits the colour wasnt as good as the z7 there is something magical about the z7 i even like the colurs better than my hasselblad 907x i will post samples on my fliker soon

the one thing i love about z7 is the focus point can be moved anywere on the screen whatever lens you use cant do that on pentax k-1

---------- Post added 08-29-21 at 06:52 AM ----------

and i understand about redition and sharpness its simple really get lenses that give you it all and the new voits sony e mount give me that 31mm as you say zapp overpriced no weather sealing but what a great lens i even love my 43mm ltd i japan versions of those ltd lenses i was going to get the hd version but my friend got them and to me not a massive difference
08-29-2021, 07:23 AM   #6
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
the white balance of the z7 is far better than my k-1 and the focus accuracy is better i wont sell my k-1 i have icc profiles for both cameras and my monitor is calibrated even the sony a7rv with the voits the colour wasnt as good as the z7 there is something magical about the z7 i even like the colurs better than my hasselblad 907x i will post samples on my fliker soon
My point is, if you use the output from your Z7 + Voigtländer lens as the target for profiling your other cameras - K-1, Hassy 907x, Sony A7r MkV - with their respective lenses, then you'll have the same colour rendering, assuming you shoot raw with those cameras. There's no magic - it's simply a case of profiling, at least for cameras with recent sensors that are broadly comparable in performance.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-29-2021 at 07:52 AM.
08-29-2021, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #7
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 192
Original Poster
that is what i have done and the nikon colour is better i can clearly see it

08-29-2021, 08:31 AM - 1 Like   #8
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
that is what i have done and the nikon colour is better i can clearly see it
Then, respectfully, there's something gone wrong with your profiling. It's perfectly possible to replicate the colours from one camera / lens combo across multiple alternative combos with correctly-executed profiles.

I'm not trying to be contrary. I'd genuinely like for you to get the same colour reproduction from your other cameras, as it's eminently do-able
08-29-2021, 09:11 AM   #9
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 192
Original Poster
the voit lenses reder colour differently every lens has different coating and colour is different there is no way to replicate colours from one camera to another as each camera uses a different sensor and all lenses render colour differently ive got close but i can tell the difference
08-29-2021, 09:36 AM - 1 Like   #10
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
the voit lenses reder colour differently every lens has different coating and colour is different
Yes. However, if you correctly profile your K-1 plus, say, your D FA24-70 using the output from your Z7 + Voigtländer lens as the target, then apply that profile to all photos taken with the K-1 and D FA24-70, it will look very, very similar in most circumstances. Nearly identical. It won't work so well if you then switch to a different lens on the K-1, as you've now introduced a variable - and, as you rightly say, different lenses influence the colour and contrast captured.

QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
there is no way to replicate colours from one camera to another as each camera uses a different sensor and all lenses render colour differently ive got close but i can tell the difference
The performance of most modern CMOS sensors, resolution capabilities aside, is remarkably similar at base ISO - not least because they're often using different sizes of the same or similar-model sensor manufactured by one of very few companies that make them. For instance, your Nikon Z7 uses a Sony sensor (if I remember correctly). Any other camera using that same sensor or one based on the same wafer will offer broadly similar raw output, subject to any additional processing from the camera's imaging engine. As such, where profiling is concerned, you can more-or-less rule out the sensor as a significant factor in colour reproduction, or an obstacle to profiled matching.

What's making the big difference is, almost certainly, the Voigtländer lens and either the Z7 raw profile or its in-camera JPEG engine (depending on whether you're shooting raw or JPEG)... and you really can equalise another camera / lens combo with that through profiling, I assure you. You won't get 100% identical output in every single situation, but it will be so close in most that the minor difference won't matter. Product photographers do this as a matter of course to ensure consistent colour reproduction between different cameras. It's an essential component of their workflow, and it works - if done correctly.

In any case, I'm looking forward to your side-by-side, like-for-like shot comparisons so we can see the difference you're talking about. I don't doubt it's visible and measurable in like-for-like shots, and if you see it, we probably will too

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-29-2021 at 10:05 AM.
08-29-2021, 10:15 AM   #11
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 28,161
QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
after a while my eyes have adjusted to the evf and i prey the next camera Pentax bring out is mirroless because the evf makes a huge difference
This is an interesting statement. I wonder if you could expand on what about the EVF won you over? If the EVF was painful at first and you adjusted to it that wouldn’t be enough to actively desire it over OVF, so what features are you leveraging on the Z7 EVF that you miss on the K-1 OVF? This is a serious question. I shoot dslr (Pentax k-3 / KP etc. ) and mirrorless (m43, Sony FE). And while OVF and EVF both have PRO and CON features, The actual shooting experience isn’t that different with native autofocus lenses. With manual focus or adapted lenses I find an EVF a little easier to focus than relying on live view or OVF. And the color and contrast in an OVF generally is easier to compose with and enjoy than an EVF in certain conditions. Personally that factor by itself - EVF vs OVF - isn’t the highest priority for me by a long shot in selecting a camera.
08-29-2021, 10:53 AM   #12
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,651
Personally, I've never bothered with camera/lens profiles (not the .icc profiles for colour management which are essential). Nor do I care about white balance (except potentially in a mixed light environment). Each shot is different. I shoot in RAW and colour/dodge& burn etc for effect. I use batch processing for multiple/repeatable edits, but not for colour, as colour is subjective. With a colour calibrated screen, adjusting the colours is the job of the photographer these days.

I've also never bought into the idea that lens a) has a better colour than lens b). It's subjective. Depends on the subject. But, mostly, is controlled by post skills. Sharpness and optical aberrations are obviously different, but even these are, to some extent, controlled in post. It just depends on how much time is chosen to use a computer to create a final image. There are professional photographers that have admitted they prefer the post processing than the actual taking of the photographs. Guess this will be alien to most of us.
08-29-2021, 11:11 AM - 1 Like   #13
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,571
QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Personally, I've never bothered with camera/lens profiles ...
I'm being pedantic here, but... even if you don't use additional custom profiles, you're still using either the embedded one in the raw image, or your raw development tool's own camera-agnostic or camera-specific default profile. I know you know this, but I mention it for the benefit of other readers who might not.

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
... (not the .icc profiles for colour management which are essential). Nor do I care about white balance (except potentially in a mixed light environment). Each shot is different. I shoot in RAW and colour/dodge& burn etc for effect. I use batch processing for multiple/repeatable edits, but not for colour, as colour is subjective. With a colour calibrated screen, adjusting the colours is the job of the photographer these days.
We're essentially making the same point whilst coming at it from different angles - to wit, colour reproduction is entirely within the control of the photographer. Whether that's through profiles, presets or manual adjustments applied in batch or on a per-image basis, the raw image can be manipulated to produce whatever colours are preferred.

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
I've also never bought into the idea that lens a) has a better colour than lens b). It's subjective.
Agreed. In fact, it almost makes no sense to say a lens produces great colours, since it's the combination of lens and either film stock or software profile (plus any adjustments) that produces the colours we see...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-29-2021 at 11:25 AM.
08-29-2021, 11:48 AM   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,171
QuoteOriginally posted by andy271 Quote
the white balance of the z7 is far better than my k-1 and the focus accuracy is better
For me 5% better is not far better, it's about splitting hairs, but I notice a lot of photographer (and marketing) magnify small things so they look like very big. Now apsc vs full frame or full frame vs medium format, let's talk. I'm not ready to pay 100% of the price of a MILC system for a 5% improvement, 30% to 50% improvement Ok I might be willing to pay for it.
08-29-2021, 01:48 PM   #15
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,042
I like OVF and the images I get from my K-1 II are fantastic.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, color, colors, corner, evf, f4, files, gear, images, iso, jpeg, k-1, k1, kit, lens, lenses, light, love, ltd, nikon, objective, pentax, pentax 28-105mm, pentax k-1, post, print, shots, snr, style, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Full Frame Landscape Camera – Sony a7R IV vs. Nikon Z7 II who wins? biz-engineer Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 20 01-08-2023 01:50 PM
Canon R5 vs Nikon Z7 vs Pentax K1- Comparison | Image Quality interested_observer Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 27 11-07-2020 03:03 PM
Comparing four Pentax MF lenses adapted to the Nikon Z7 Steve Verrall Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 16 09-29-2020 07:58 PM
Open question: Nikon Z6/Z7 jcdoss Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 6 03-06-2020 06:15 AM
K-1 vs Nikon-Z7 and Canon EOS-R on photonstophotos.net superpowerpinger Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 8 09-12-2018 08:33 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top