Canon losing interest in the megapixel race?

PaddyB · 08-29-2009, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Jasvox

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/70468-canon-drops-gauntlet-new-g11-s90.html

I guess we should applaud the backing down of the MP race...but unless they actually improve the sensors, going back to 2005-6 era numbers of MP's isn't really much to get excited about...yet.

Jas

Agreed, but still, larger photosites are larger photosites. And from what I've read they have improved the sensor along with their noise reduction (although I'm always a bit wary when it comes to noise reduction on a P&S). No, I'm sure it won't be as good as 4/3 or APS-C but it's still a step in the right direction.

jct us101 · 08-29-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by k100d

i know you're a big Foveon guy but the camera's interface is slow, unintuitive, random image problems, desaturation at high iso, lens is slow, rather sad a camera that had a lot of potential and interest came out as a let down

Ever heard of the Contax N Digital?

k100d · 08-29-2009, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by jct us101

Ever heard of the Contax N Digital?

not until you mentioned it Contax N Digital Review

funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/08/28/canon.eos.7d.box.and.price/

pingflood · 08-29-2009, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by jct us101

Ever heard of the Contax N Digital?

Anybody actually use those today?

Interestingly, the Contax N lenses used a protocol that was similar/identical to the Canon EF one for lens control. A place called Conurus converts these to Canon mount and they work flawlessly, including autofocus, on EF mount bodies. So while the camera itself was not a success, the lenses live on.

PaddyB · 08-30-2009, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by k100d

funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on

Electronista | Canon EOS-7D hard specs, prices leak

It would indeed seem the race is back on.
Just when I thought Canon was showing some intelligence, I see this oddball tweener of a camera. I wonder exactly what market that thing is aimed at. For $100 cheaper the D300 is a stellar camera that should have better high ISO (unless Canon is really working some magic on that 18mp APS-C). The K-7 can also compete, at least in image quality, in a smaller built-in SR package with a lower price.

I dont see this price point for APS-C DSLR's sticking around much longer. It won't be long before we see FF units at or under $2000 (eg. Sony A850).

Damn Brit · 08-30-2009, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by k100d

funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on

Electronista | Canon EOS-7D hard specs, prices leak

I thought that the consensus had been that 15MP was the optimum for APS-C. I remember that snippet being bandied around sometime after the K20 came out.

pingflood · 08-30-2009, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

I thought that the consensus had been that 15MP was the optimum for APS-C. I remember that snippet being bandied around sometime after the K20 came out.

The internet forum consensus, perhaps. We won't know if 15MP is the ideal until there's something higher density to compare with.

Ratmagiclady · 08-30-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

The internet forum consensus, perhaps. We won't know if 15MP is the ideal until there's something higher density to compare with.

I think we may continue to see changes which may or may not include higher MP counts: I don't think it's really any longer a 'megapixel race' in the sense it was, though. Bigger, noisier files aren't going to sell cameras anymore just for the sake of that number.

dylansalt · 09-01-2009, 05:28 AM

A 10mp KM with a Kit lens is not much heavier or bigger than a Canon G10 yet thrashes the G10 in the IQ dept and is not that much more expensive.

For me photography is having the best quality picture making tool for the moment and this is where even the elementary amateur dslr delivers over a compact.

All a compact gives is convenience and a range of focal lengths at the expense of IQ.

The DLP1/2,LX3's etc are actually more expensive than a K20D but at least maybe equal in IQ at iso/100-200.

Even 10mp is too much for these dinky little sensors just as it is for these cellphone cams.

Maybe the compact designers should look at a very high performing 2-3 Mp e.g great DR & Noiseless ability at higher iso.

Dyl

lithos · 09-04-2009, 06:54 AM

Heh.

I'm wondering if the camera companies learned anything from the CPU business.

reeftool · 09-04-2009, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by lithos

Heh.

I'm wondering if the camera companies learned anything from the CPU business.

It is a very similar issue. Faster and faster clock speeds and consuming more power than the refrigerator and most computers didn't perform any better. Of course they have to have SOMETHING to market to convince us that our perfectly good computers need to be replaced. Marketing based on megapixels will burn the camera makers with the consumer P&S models. If their new 10 MP doesn't have a noticeable IQ improvement over their previous 5 or 6 MP models then the consumer is going to remember the next time and it's quite likely there may not be a next time as he will probably not purchase another one until the present one breaks and with a different brand.

Mike Cash · 09-04-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by PaddyB

Anyone else a bit interested in this camera?

I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly.

Blue · 09-07-2009, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly.

The G10 and G11 have a viewfinder. They also have knobs and a retro look. The AF serves as a rangefinder of sorts. I find those aspects interesting. Plus it is half the price of the EP1.

MoparFreak69 · 09-08-2009, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly.

You mean it isnt spelled LOOSING? I usually just ignore it because there are so many people who dont even know its wrong.

And a comment that pertains to the topic. I personally dont care so much about MP count either as long as they can give me better IQ I am happy. Even with the smaller actual picture size, you can still take a shot with excellent IQ and blow it up larger than 100% with good results. For people like me who probably would never print beyond 8.5x11 anyway it wouldnt be a loss at all. Actually might be a little bit of gain due to the loss of need for compressing the image to fit the size print requested.

08-29-2009, 08:42 PM	#18
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by jct us101 Ever heard of the Contax N Digital? not until you mentioned it Contax N Digital Review funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/08/28/canon.eos.7d.box.and.price/ Last edited by k100d; 08-29-2009 at 09:54 PM.

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08-29-2009, 07:30 PM	#16
PaddyB Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Taipei Posts: 65 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jasvox https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/70468-canon-drops-gauntlet-new-g11-s90.html I guess we should applaud the backing down of the MP race...but unless they actually improve the sensors, going back to 2005-6 era numbers of MP's isn't really much to get excited about...yet. Jas Agreed, but still, larger photosites are larger photosites. And from what I've read they have improved the sensor along with their noise reduction (although I'm always a bit wary when it comes to noise reduction on a P&S). No, I'm sure it won't be as good as 4/3 or APS-C but it's still a step in the right direction.

08-29-2009, 07:53 PM	#17
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	Originally posted by k100d i know you're a big Foveon guy but the camera's interface is slow, unintuitive, random image problems, desaturation at high iso, lens is slow, rather sad a camera that had a lot of potential and interest came out as a let down Ever heard of the Contax N Digital?

08-29-2009, 11:47 PM	#19
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by jct us101 Ever heard of the Contax N Digital? Anybody actually use those today? Interestingly, the Contax N lenses used a protocol that was similar/identical to the Canon EF one for lens control. A place called Conurus converts these to Canon mount and they work flawlessly, including autofocus, on EF mount bodies. So while the camera itself was not a success, the lenses live on.

08-30-2009, 02:50 AM	#20
PaddyB Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Taipei Posts: 65 Original Poster	Originally posted by k100d funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on Electronista \| Canon EOS-7D hard specs, prices leak It would indeed seem the race is back on. Just when I thought Canon was showing some intelligence, I see this oddball tweener of a camera. I wonder exactly what market that thing is aimed at. For $100 cheaper the D300 is a stellar camera that should have better high ISO (unless Canon is really working some magic on that 18mp APS-C). The K-7 can also compete, at least in image quality, in a smaller built-in SR package with a lower price. I dont see this price point for APS-C DSLR's sticking around much longer. It won't be long before we see FF units at or under $2000 (eg. Sony A850).

08-30-2009, 03:34 AM	#21
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by k100d funny now there are leaks of the 7D being an 18MP APS-C sensor, maybe the race is back on Electronista \| Canon EOS-7D hard specs, prices leak I thought that the consensus had been that 15MP was the optimum for APS-C. I remember that snippet being bandied around sometime after the K20 came out.

08-30-2009, 03:54 AM	#22
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Damn Brit I thought that the consensus had been that 15MP was the optimum for APS-C. I remember that snippet being bandied around sometime after the K20 came out. The internet forum consensus, perhaps. We won't know if 15MP is the ideal until there's something higher density to compare with.

08-30-2009, 10:55 AM	#23
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by pingflood The internet forum consensus, perhaps. We won't know if 15MP is the ideal until there's something higher density to compare with. I think we may continue to see changes which may or may not include higher MP counts: I don't think it's really any longer a 'megapixel race' in the sense it was, though. Bigger, noisier files aren't going to sell cameras anymore just for the sake of that number.

09-01-2009, 05:28 AM	#24
dylansalt Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,052	A 10mp KM with a Kit lens is not much heavier or bigger than a Canon G10 yet thrashes the G10 in the IQ dept and is not that much more expensive. For me photography is having the best quality picture making tool for the moment and this is where even the elementary amateur dslr delivers over a compact. All a compact gives is convenience and a range of focal lengths at the expense of IQ. The DLP1/2,LX3's etc are actually more expensive than a K20D but at least maybe equal in IQ at iso/100-200. Even 10mp is too much for these dinky little sensors just as it is for these cellphone cams. Maybe the compact designers should look at a very high performing 2-3 Mp e.g great DR & Noiseless ability at higher iso. Dyl

09-04-2009, 06:54 AM	#25
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Heh. I'm wondering if the camera companies learned anything from the CPU business.

09-04-2009, 07:49 AM	#26
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Originally posted by lithos Heh. I'm wondering if the camera companies learned anything from the CPU business. It is a very similar issue. Faster and faster clock speeds and consuming more power than the refrigerator and most computers didn't perform any better. Of course they have to have SOMETHING to market to convince us that our perfectly good computers need to be replaced. Marketing based on megapixels will burn the camera makers with the consumer P&S models. If their new 10 MP doesn't have a noticeable IQ improvement over their previous 5 or 6 MP models then the consumer is going to remember the next time and it's quite likely there may not be a next time as he will probably not purchase another one until the present one breaks and with a different brand.

09-04-2009, 11:54 AM	#27
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by PaddyB Anyone else a bit interested in this camera? I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly.

09-07-2009, 07:26 PM	#28
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Mike Cash I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly. The G10 and G11 have a viewfinder. They also have knobs and a retro look. The AF serves as a rangefinder of sorts. I find those aspects interesting. Plus it is half the price of the EP1.

09-08-2009, 02:18 AM	#29
MoparFreak69 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 197	Originally posted by Mike Cash I care nothing at all about the camera. The only reason I'm replying is so someday I can tell my grandchildren I once interacted with the last person on the internet who could spell "losing" correctly. You mean it isnt spelled LOOSING? I usually just ignore it because there are so many people who dont even know its wrong. And a comment that pertains to the topic. I personally dont care so much about MP count either as long as they can give me better IQ I am happy. Even with the smaller actual picture size, you can still take a shot with excellent IQ and blow it up larger than 100% with good results. For people like me who probably would never print beyond 8.5x11 anyway it wouldnt be a loss at all. Actually might be a little bit of gain due to the loss of need for compressing the image to fit the size print requested.