The Canon 7D for $1699.

ktwse · 09-01-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by GLXLR

Yeah but now Pentax really needs to make something to compete above this market. AS IN FULL FRAME. Other wise Pentax is gonna get in a lot of trouble...

While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand.

There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras! And it's not just a slight upgrade a la the 50D but a completely new design. Plus two new lenses. Nikon, of course, has not only continued to launch new DSLRs, they've also released DX lenses.

So while the a850 is one side of the coin, this is certainly the other. With the manufacturers that really count continuing to support APS-C, Pentax can focus on beating them on aspects of that game.

Thomas

*) I might have missed such a comment, if so my apologies to that person.

GLXLR · 09-01-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Ok, I've cleaned out the personal off topic stuff.
I'd appreciate it if it doesn't start up again, thanks.

Originally posted by ktwse

While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand.

There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras! And it's not just a slight upgrade a la the 50D but a completely new design. Plus two new lenses. Nikon, of course, has not only continued to launch new DSLRs, they've also released DX lenses.

So while the a850 is one side of the coin, this is certainly the other. With the manufacturers that really count continuing to support APS-C, Pentax can focus on beating them on aspects of that game.

Thomas

*) I might have missed such a comment, if so my apologies to that person.

I think it really is a great camera, but doesn't offer a WHOLE lot more than the K-7. Now if it had BETTER ISO peformance than the K-7, that would be extrememly sad... as in pitiful. I can imagine a lot of sports photographers picking one of these as either a pack up to their 1D or as the main camera. 18MP allows extreme crops, 1.6X crop factor great for wild life and sports photographers, 8fps is extremely fast, and the new 19AF seems brilliant (all of them are cross type and the D300 only has 19 cross type sensors I believe) and they are customizable to be spread out or compacted in as you wish, which I think is an awesome feature. Pentax should consider this as well, since the 11 AF point system is very spread out across the frame.

Ratmagiclady · 09-01-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by ktwse

While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand.

There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras!

Shh! Careful what you say! It might be 'unprofessional!'

Gooshin · 09-01-2009, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by GLXLR

I think it really is a great camera, but doesn't offer a WHOLE lot more than the K-7. Now if it had BETTER ISO peformance than the K-7, that would be extrememly sad... as in pitiful. I can imagine a lot of sports photographers picking one of these as either a pack up to their 1D or as the main camera. 18MP allows extreme crops, 1.6X crop factor great for wild life and sports photographers, 8fps is extremely fast, and the new 19AF seems brilliant (all of them are cross type and the D300 only has 19 cross type sensors I believe) and they are customizable to be spread out or compacted in as you wish, which I think is an awesome feature. Pentax should consider this as well, since the 11 AF point system is very spread out across the frame.

you are chewing through the bullet list on the side of the box

i still see no argument.

GLXLR · 09-01-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Gooshin

you are chewing through the bullet list on the side of the box

i still see no argument.

What could i possibly be arguing about?. Just commenting on the 7D. Surely there is nothing wrong with commenting on non-Pentax products right?

When I said "Pentax should consider this" I mean the "customizable AF points". The 7D has a feature way you can move around the AF points to where you want them and each is fully customizable to where you can turn off individual points.

PaddyB · 09-02-2009, 07:43 AM

AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY......... I was skeptical at first when I read the leaked info but perhaps Canon has worked some magic on that 18mp sensor after all. Looks like the 7D is quite a nice rig. Maybe it will put some downward pressure on the price of the K-7. Also, I just knew that before long Canon would come out with a camera that looks better than the K-7 in all the areas that matter to waankers.

C'est la vie.

GLXLR · 09-02-2009, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by PaddyB

AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY......... I was skeptical at first when I read the leaked info but perhaps Canon has worked some magic on that 18mp sensor after all. Looks like the 7D is quite a nice rig. Maybe it will put some downward pressure on the price of the K-7. Also, I just knew that before long Canon would come out with a camera that looks better than the K-7 in all the areas that matter to waankers.

C'est la vie.

not too much better... just fps, MP, and slightly more resolution in movie mode (1080p versus 1080i... hmm) Plus most people prefer widescreen mode on their TVs. The K-7 has a 1080i at 3:2 aspect ratio (correct me if I am wrong).

Still the AF system seems nice (19 AF points isn't overkill and they are extremely customizable). It seems everytime Pentax releases something, something else is released that has some better specs (EP-1 even smaller (although we have been waiting for a while) and now this Canon).

WerTicus · 09-02-2009, 10:03 PM

Still no in body stabilisation but this still looks to be the best value canon ever imo.

Looks like Pentax is putting pressure on them :P

Still would have a k7 over the 7d though. But not if i was invested in L glass instead of limited pentax primes.

GoldenWreckedAngle · 09-02-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by gokenin

see thats my arguement if you are really looking for an upgrade from the APS-C sensor size shouldn't you be looking at Medium Format? why a simple upgrade to FF go all the way

There are more MegaPixels, More Dynamic Range and greater detail in the pics so why stop at FF. To all the people I say bring me a medium format digital camera (but make it cheap

so i can afford it )

Several of the full frame cameras outperform some of the medium formats on most fronts including dynamic range and image quality. The bodies are far cheaper, glass is much cheaper and more readily available, frame rates are usually higher, the bodies are lighter and more feature rich, the gear is much cheaper to rent, the files are easier to work with, etc. - These are just a handful of the reasons many pros prefer full frame over medium format if their client will let them get away with it. Full frame makes for an easier and more profitable job most of the time.

Pentax is counting on the fact that some of these advantages translate well to the arguments for some APS-C cameras over some full frame bodies too, especially for the non-professional. Pentax has elected to (or perhaps more accurately been forced to) stick to this lower hanging but far more abundant fruit in choosing their market segment.

Of course, the advantages of choosing an APS-C system with a full frame camera in the line-up are that if you ever need the higher IQ and performance of a full frame (and many clients require it now) then your flashes and well chosen lenses will move up. Perhaps more importantly, as the new Canon 7D and Nikon D300s illustrate, full frame features tend to move down. Companies with full frame bodies in their line-up tend to knock their top APS-C pitches out of the park.

The honest truth is that I still shoot Pentax because they were among the most affordable options when I bought into the DSLR game and I'm not profitable enough yet to justify migrating my flash and lens collection to a completely different system. I hear the Pentax primes are nice but I don't think they sway many shooters their way with them although I confess that I would use that as my main reason for staying if I had a few of them

. I hate to say it but "affordable entry" and "small" are really the only true advantages I think they have left and when you start to migrate out of their market segment, those advantage go away pretty quickly.

So, think about the Pentax marketing advantages for a second. None of them translate well to full frame. Developing the body and lenses is the easy part. Developing a whole new marketing and filling it with buyers is probably out of Pentax's reach right now. Stranger things have happened but I'll be surprised if we see a full frame Pentax within the next three years.

heatherslightbox · 09-12-2009, 06:14 PM

To be honest with you, I wasn't terribly excited about the announcement of the 7D, at least from a personal standpoint. OTOH, from the perspective of a sports/wildlife photographer who's looking for something a, better than their 50D, but can't stomach the price of a 1D Mk3, they would have every reason to be excited.

On the subject of bodies, one thing that would get me really excited would be Canon's answer to the sub $2000 Sony A850. I don't need video or 21MP, so if Canon could leave those out and add a FF sensor in the 15MP range plus capabilities similar to my 40D, I'd definitely be interested.

One thing I did get excited about was the announcement of the L100/2.8 IS macro.

Never mind that I can't afford it, but perhaps someday... In the meantime, I'll eventually be acquiring the EF 100/2.8 macro, still a most excellent lens in it's own right.

Heather

**Ash** · 09-12-2009, 09:47 PM

Like you Heather, this 7D ain't making me look twice.
The K-7's cheaper and offers more important features that trump the 7D - SR & better UI. All else is superfluous.
If I were to switch systems, it would be for a 5DMkII or D700. But I'm not jumping ship just for FF.

nostatic · 09-12-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Like you Heather, this 7D ain't making me look twice.
The K-7's cheaper and offers more important features that trump the 7D - SR & better UI. All else is superfluous.
If I were to switch systems, it would be for a 5DMkII or D700. But I'm not jumping ship just for FF.

Well, I just jumped for a 5D2, but am still considering a K7 for small/tough/street. Even though I've already got some L glass, I'm not so sure I'd want to use it on an APS-C camera. If I'm "going small" with the body then I likely want to "go small" with the glass as well. The 7D doesn't really sway me much, as the K7 does what I want at a lower price point. The SR tips the scales, as the IS lenses aren't svelte and iirc there aren't any primes with IS (other than the new macro).

But horses for courses. If I wanted to shoot big FPS the 7D looks cool.

09-01-2009, 05:47 PM	#65
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gooshin you are chewing through the bullet list on the side of the box i still see no argument. What could i possibly be arguing about?. Just commenting on the 7D. Surely there is nothing wrong with commenting on non-Pentax products right? When I said "Pentax should consider this" I mean the "customizable AF points". The 7D has a feature way you can move around the AF points to where you want them and each is fully customizable to where you can turn off individual points. Last edited by GLXLR; 09-01-2009 at 06:02 PM.

09-02-2009, 07:43 AM	#66
PaddyB Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Taipei Posts: 65	AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY......... I was skeptical at first when I read the leaked info but perhaps Canon has worked some magic on that 18mp sensor after all. Looks like the 7D is quite a nice rig. Maybe it will put some downward pressure on the price of the K-7. Also, I just knew that before long Canon would come out with a camera that looks better than the K-7 in all the areas that matter to waankers. C'est la vie. Last edited by PaddyB; 09-02-2009 at 07:45 AM. Reason: i didnt know that british slang was edited on here too, SOD OFF NAZI BUGGERS! hehe

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09-01-2009, 02:17 PM	#61
ktwse Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 57	Originally posted by GLXLR Yeah but now Pentax really needs to make something to compete above this market. AS IN FULL FRAME. Other wise Pentax is gonna get in a lot of trouble... While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand. There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras! And it's not just a slight upgrade a la the 50D but a completely new design. Plus two new lenses. Nikon, of course, has not only continued to launch new DSLRs, they've also released DX lenses. So while the a850 is one side of the coin, this is certainly the other. With the manufacturers that really count continuing to support APS-C, Pentax can focus on beating them on aspects of that game. Thomas *) I might have missed such a comment, if so my apologies to that person.

09-01-2009, 02:28 PM	#62
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684 Original Poster	Originally posted by Damn Brit Ok, I've cleaned out the personal off topic stuff. I'd appreciate it if it doesn't start up again, thanks. Originally posted by ktwse While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand. There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras! And it's not just a slight upgrade a la the 50D but a completely new design. Plus two new lenses. Nikon, of course, has not only continued to launch new DSLRs, they've also released DX lenses. So while the a850 is one side of the coin, this is certainly the other. With the manufacturers that really count continuing to support APS-C, Pentax can focus on beating them on aspects of that game. Thomas *) I might have missed such a comment, if so my apologies to that person. I think it really is a great camera, but doesn't offer a WHOLE lot more than the K-7. Now if it had BETTER ISO peformance than the K-7, that would be extrememly sad... as in pitiful. I can imagine a lot of sports photographers picking one of these as either a pack up to their 1D or as the main camera. 18MP allows extreme crops, 1.6X crop factor great for wild life and sports photographers, 8fps is extremely fast, and the new 19AF seems brilliant (all of them are cross type and the D300 only has 19 cross type sensors I believe) and they are customizable to be spread out or compacted in as you wish, which I think is an awesome feature. Pentax should consider this as well, since the 11 AF point system is very spread out across the frame.

09-01-2009, 02:28 PM	#63
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by ktwse While a lot of people have already commented on the flaws in this logic, I'm surprised no one* has mentioned that Canon releasing the 7D could actually prove good for Pentax as a dedicated APS-C brand. There's been so much talk about how the entire market is moving towards FF on various forums in the last couple of years, yet the 7D is proof that at least the largest brand in the camera market seems to think that there's still plenty of room for pro spec APS-C cameras! Shh! Careful what you say! It might be 'unprofessional!'

09-01-2009, 03:03 PM	#64
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by GLXLR I think it really is a great camera, but doesn't offer a WHOLE lot more than the K-7. Now if it had BETTER ISO peformance than the K-7, that would be extrememly sad... as in pitiful. I can imagine a lot of sports photographers picking one of these as either a pack up to their 1D or as the main camera. 18MP allows extreme crops, 1.6X crop factor great for wild life and sports photographers, 8fps is extremely fast, and the new 19AF seems brilliant (all of them are cross type and the D300 only has 19 cross type sensors I believe) and they are customizable to be spread out or compacted in as you wish, which I think is an awesome feature. Pentax should consider this as well, since the 11 AF point system is very spread out across the frame. you are chewing through the bullet list on the side of the box i still see no argument.

09-02-2009, 03:27 PM	#67
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684 Original Poster	Originally posted by PaddyB AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNYYYYYYYWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY......... I was skeptical at first when I read the leaked info but perhaps Canon has worked some magic on that 18mp sensor after all. Looks like the 7D is quite a nice rig. Maybe it will put some downward pressure on the price of the K-7. Also, I just knew that before long Canon would come out with a camera that looks better than the K-7 in all the areas that matter to waankers. C'est la vie. not too much better... just fps, MP, and slightly more resolution in movie mode (1080p versus 1080i... hmm) Plus most people prefer widescreen mode on their TVs. The K-7 has a 1080i at 3:2 aspect ratio (correct me if I am wrong). Still the AF system seems nice (19 AF points isn't overkill and they are extremely customizable). It seems everytime Pentax releases something, something else is released that has some better specs (EP-1 even smaller (although we have been waiting for a while) and now this Canon).

09-02-2009, 10:03 PM	#68
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	Still no in body stabilisation but this still looks to be the best value canon ever imo. Looks like Pentax is putting pressure on them :P Still would have a k7 over the 7d though. But not if i was invested in L glass instead of limited pentax primes.

09-02-2009, 10:10 PM	#69
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339	Originally posted by gokenin see thats my arguement if you are really looking for an upgrade from the APS-C sensor size shouldn't you be looking at Medium Format? why a simple upgrade to FF go all the way There are more MegaPixels, More Dynamic Range and greater detail in the pics so why stop at FF. To all the people I say bring me a medium format digital camera (but make it cheap so i can afford it ) Several of the full frame cameras outperform some of the medium formats on most fronts including dynamic range and image quality. The bodies are far cheaper, glass is much cheaper and more readily available, frame rates are usually higher, the bodies are lighter and more feature rich, the gear is much cheaper to rent, the files are easier to work with, etc. - These are just a handful of the reasons many pros prefer full frame over medium format if their client will let them get away with it. Full frame makes for an easier and more profitable job most of the time. Pentax is counting on the fact that some of these advantages translate well to the arguments for some APS-C cameras over some full frame bodies too, especially for the non-professional. Pentax has elected to (or perhaps more accurately been forced to) stick to this lower hanging but far more abundant fruit in choosing their market segment. Of course, the advantages of choosing an APS-C system with a full frame camera in the line-up are that if you ever need the higher IQ and performance of a full frame (and many clients require it now) then your flashes and well chosen lenses will move up. Perhaps more importantly, as the new Canon 7D and Nikon D300s illustrate, full frame features tend to move down. Companies with full frame bodies in their line-up tend to knock their top APS-C pitches out of the park. The honest truth is that I still shoot Pentax because they were among the most affordable options when I bought into the DSLR game and I'm not profitable enough yet to justify migrating my flash and lens collection to a completely different system. I hear the Pentax primes are nice but I don't think they sway many shooters their way with them although I confess that I would use that as my main reason for staying if I had a few of them . I hate to say it but "affordable entry" and "small" are really the only true advantages I think they have left and when you start to migrate out of their market segment, those advantage go away pretty quickly. So, think about the Pentax marketing advantages for a second. None of them translate well to full frame. Developing the body and lenses is the easy part. Developing a whole new marketing and filling it with buyers is probably out of Pentax's reach right now. Stranger things have happened but I'll be surprised if we see a full frame Pentax within the next three years.

09-12-2009, 06:14 PM	#70
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599	To be honest with you, I wasn't terribly excited about the announcement of the 7D, at least from a personal standpoint. OTOH, from the perspective of a sports/wildlife photographer who's looking for something a, better than their 50D, but can't stomach the price of a 1D Mk3, they would have every reason to be excited. On the subject of bodies, one thing that would get me really excited would be Canon's answer to the sub $2000 Sony A850. I don't need video or 21MP, so if Canon could leave those out and add a FF sensor in the 15MP range plus capabilities similar to my 40D, I'd definitely be interested. One thing I did get excited about was the announcement of the L100/2.8 IS macro. Never mind that I can't afford it, but perhaps someday... In the meantime, I'll eventually be acquiring the EF 100/2.8 macro, still a most excellent lens in it's own right. Heather

09-12-2009, 09:47 PM	#71
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Like you Heather, this 7D ain't making me look twice. The K-7's cheaper and offers more important features that trump the 7D - SR & better UI. All else is superfluous. If I were to switch systems, it would be for a 5DMkII or D700. But I'm not jumping ship just for FF.

09-12-2009, 10:05 PM	#72
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by Ash Like you Heather, this 7D ain't making me look twice. The K-7's cheaper and offers more important features that trump the 7D - SR & better UI. All else is superfluous. If I were to switch systems, it would be for a 5DMkII or D700. But I'm not jumping ship just for FF. Well, I just jumped for a 5D2, but am still considering a K7 for small/tough/street. Even though I've already got some L glass, I'm not so sure I'd want to use it on an APS-C camera. If I'm "going small" with the body then I likely want to "go small" with the glass as well. The 7D doesn't really sway me much, as the K7 does what I want at a lower price point. The SR tips the scales, as the IS lenses aren't svelte and iirc there aren't any primes with IS (other than the new macro). But horses for courses. If I wanted to shoot big FPS the 7D looks cool.