The best options in the $500~800 price range?

Andi Lo · 09-25-2009, 04:46 PM

I'd stilll say he should go with a DSLR... way more possibilities. Before I got my K100D I also thought I'd be better off with a good P&S than a dslr, but I don't regret the DSLR purchase one bit

K10D is an awesome machine! I just got mine

pokemonsnap · 09-26-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by alexeyga

thus ending up with P&S-looking pics anyways...

I think I'd feel more or less inclined to explore a DSLR should I own one. I also tend to think of a DSLR as an investment for the future, somethind that'd last 3 to 4 years. If you're saying that the bridge camera will offer everything that a DSLR would, but without those functions and whatever that are so complicated that i'd most likely never get to explore them anyway - then that is just great.

And when you say the pics would end up looking like P&S pics, what P&S are you referring to? I find it real hard to believe that a random DSLR in auto mode would produce the same pics as a random P&S in auto mode :/

By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX? The K10D seems to be discontinued in Sweden and I don't think I'll have any better luck finding it in Japan. The AA-battery thing i think I can live with since I'm already equipped with rechargables, and in my case the smaller size ought to be a good thing... but what about the lack of weathertighting? Do I need to worry, or will I be fine as long as I avoid canoeing with it?

pbo · 09-26-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX?

It's not out there yet... But, it's the successor of K-m, which is a great beginners camera (it even has a help button

), so I would guess K-x makes a beefed up great beginners camera

But if you're going to Japan, and are considering K-x, you probably should buy in Japan - 100 colors are available only there

Weatherproofing? I never shot under rain in ~10 months after I picked my first DSLR. So, it turns out I have weatherproofing on my cam, but I never really needed it. Besides, will you go out shooting in the rain and without an umbrella to cover yourself?

Andi Lo · 09-26-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by pokemonsnap

By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX? The K10D seems to be discontinued in Sweden and I don't think I'll have any better luck finding it in Japan. The AA-battery thing i think I can live with since I'm already equipped with rechargables, and in my case the smaller size ought to be a good thing... but what about the lack of weathertighting? Do I need to worry, or will I be fine as long as I avoid canoeing with it?

Because the K10D is cheap and have double wheels, pentaprism, grip availability, constumization, ISO button, Program shift, Tav mode, etc etc. Add 18-55 WR and you've got a cam that can go pretty much everywhere. Might not be an advantage depending on where you are using the cam...

K10D lose to k-m on size (portability), high ISO (pure speculation since people think it's the same sensor as some nikon / sony cameras), resolution (only slightly, doesn't matter if you dont print big), SR tech (K10D is 2 generation behind), AF alogarithms (K-x should be MUCH faster, depending on your use this might be dealbreaker) colors selection. imho

pokemonsnap · 09-27-2009, 02:20 PM

That sounds like quite a lot to me... I'm curious about the SR though. My hands tend to be rather shakey.

I'm also still curious about the weathertighting. I mean, are system cameras more sensitive than compact cameras? If the sky opens, and my camera is inside my bag, do I need to be concerned? Will a few drops be enough to damage it? It's expensive gear and I don't want to push my luck, but I don't want to miss out on good photo opportunities either.

er1kksen · 09-27-2009, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by pokemonsnap

That sounds like quite a lot to me... I'm curious about the SR though. My hands tend to be rather shakey.

I'm also still curious about the weathertighting. I mean, are system cameras more sensitive than compact cameras? If the sky opens, and my camera is inside my bag, do I need to be concerned? Will a few drops be enough to damage it? It's expensive gear and I don't want to push my luck, but I don't want to miss out on good photo opportunities either.

I've never had an SLR stop working in the rain. The closest to that was my K20D failing to recognize an FA 28-90 f3.5-5.6 (shitty construction, might as well be a sponge) after a good bit of stormblown-rain... the camera itself worked perfectly fine, so I set the aperture manually and focused manually and whatnot and it just kept working.

I used an Olympus E-330 (not weathersealed) in a lot of bad weather (my favorite conditions to photograph, really) and never had a problem, and my 40D has seen some light rain with no problems. Generally, if you're just careful and try to minimize water, construction is pretty tight on most DSLRs.

pokemonsnap · 09-27-2009, 11:48 PM

Sounds good. I feel a lot more calm now

So, I've kind of managed to settle on buying a k-x. Why? Because currently in Sweden a K10D costs the same as the k-x will in Japan, and there I can get it in pink. Oh, and it supposedly takes great photos and is relatively newbie-friendly and can capture video and will let me make use of my rechargables.

The reason I'm not going for the Finepix s200 EXR is because I consider the k-x to be more of an investment for the future, with more opportunities should I become interested in photography... and the price is about the same anyway.

Out of curiosity though, could anyone tell me how the k-x compares to EOS 450D/500D, and to the s200 EXR? I originally thought that the k-x was smaller than the EOS for example, but realizing that it's not much of a difference, I now become curious.

er1kksen · 09-28-2009, 10:41 AM

I'm sure you won't be dissapointed.

As far as the size difference from the rebels, the fact is that they're both compact DSLRs. One might be a bit smaller than the other, but functionally there's not a major size difference. Far more important are the camera's ergonomics; many users complain about how the Canon Rebels feel in the hand, while the feel of Pentax's bodies has been praised pretty consistently.

I can't really comment on the S200, I have no experience with that type of camera.

pokemonsnap · 09-28-2009, 02:09 PM

Oh. I thought that in nine cases out of ten, something released one year after the other is automatically better in most aspects

It turns out I can get the 450d rebel for the same money as i would the k-x. If the ergonomics really are the biggest difference, I'm having second thoughts. I guess I understand now why people direct me to older cameras since what it boils down to, aside from ergonomics, seem to be more petty things like video capture, number of focus points and internal battery etc ...

It's a bit calming though to know that I'll get great photos regardless what camera I buy

er1kksen · 09-28-2009, 07:40 PM

I said that ergonomics were a bigger difference than the size difference, NOT that ergonomics are really the biggest difference overall. I'd say there are a LOT of other differences between the cameras, which would sway me strongly in favor of the pentax, and they really have nothing to do the K-x being newer (I've been using outdated cameras, usually pre-owned, as long as I've been taking pictures). Better construction, far more user-configurable, likely better IQ (given the track record of similar recent sensors in the Nikon D90, Sony A550, etc.), more interesting lenses, in-body shake reduction, and auto ISO that actually works (I can't tell you how much I miss that since moving to Canon...). I see little compelling about the 450D in this situation, especially at equal prices.

alexeyga · 09-28-2009, 07:54 PM

The majour problems with low-end DSLRs are always the same... small and dark viewfinder and sluggish operation... despite a much better AUTO-mode and smaller size...

I'd still stick with a used higher end body... But that's me....

dycz · 09-29-2009, 08:01 AM

Just what like our friend pro-pentaxian benjkan has said "camera nowadays are expensive disposable cameras".

it doesn't matter what camera you choose as long as you know how to use it and take advantage of what it can offer. Get only what you can afford.

If you have $500-$800 to spend without digging to much in your pocket, then I can say that go for a DSLR. As for canon rebels, I can say that it will really satisfy a starter like you. I was really amazed with the 350D when I first used it.

As a friendly advice. Before buying a DSLR try all your choices thats within your budget. Don't just look into canon, nikon... try pentax, sony, panasonic and olympus. Im sure they will all satisfy you.. get what I mean?... Feel the camera and let them impress you.. and choose what your heart really desire. Don't think too much about lenses yet.. Its your first DSLR! Get the kit lens first or a long zoom like the Tammy 18-250. Then upgrade your lens until you have sufficient knowledge so that you will be able to assess what you really need and not merely what you want.

Now Im goin to be bias:
Seriously though, pentax is a great system. They have the best kitlens in the competition. And since you will be going to japan.. why not try the NEW pentax K-X.... It has lots of colors and guess what - it has HD video! Lots of features as compare to 400D. Its light and small. Best of all, its Pentax!

pokemonsnap · 09-29-2009, 02:29 PM

wow, thanks! i really enjoyed reading that post

i'm like "wow, this guy is really 'think about what you're doing, stay cool man...explore the possibilities" ... only to read on and be greeted by "BUY IT MAN!! IT ROCKS!"

Seriously. It's very encouraging, moreso than if you had left the first part out.

I'll probably get the k-x, though I'll make sure to touch and feel other cameras beforehand. :-)

If anyone's interested I might let you know my impressions later on <3

AMBIVALENCE · 09-29-2009, 06:54 PM

I agree. You have to try the camera for 10 mins at least to get a feel if DSLR is for you.
I still find it hard to shoot with a DSLR due to the amount of stuff I need to set up before I can get a decent pics. (Aperture, Shutter speed, ISO, EV...), and it could be quite discouraging when you are really used to P/S cameras.

09-26-2009, 01:05 AM	#17
pokemonsnap New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Original Poster	Originally posted by alexeyga thus ending up with P&S-looking pics anyways... I think I'd feel more or less inclined to explore a DSLR should I own one. I also tend to think of a DSLR as an investment for the future, somethind that'd last 3 to 4 years. If you're saying that the bridge camera will offer everything that a DSLR would, but without those functions and whatever that are so complicated that i'd most likely never get to explore them anyway - then that is just great. And when you say the pics would end up looking like P&S pics, what P&S are you referring to? I find it real hard to believe that a random DSLR in auto mode would produce the same pics as a random P&S in auto mode :/ By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX? The K10D seems to be discontinued in Sweden and I don't think I'll have any better luck finding it in Japan. The AA-battery thing i think I can live with since I'm already equipped with rechargables, and in my case the smaller size ought to be a good thing... but what about the lack of weathertighting? Do I need to worry, or will I be fine as long as I avoid canoeing with it? Last edited by pokemonsnap; 09-26-2009 at 02:58 AM.

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09-25-2009, 04:46 PM	#16
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	I'd stilll say he should go with a DSLR... way more possibilities. Before I got my K100D I also thought I'd be better off with a good P&S than a dslr, but I don't regret the DSLR purchase one bit K10D is an awesome machine! I just got mine

09-26-2009, 08:45 AM	#18
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	Quote: By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX? It's not out there yet... But, it's the successor of K-m, which is a great beginners camera (it even has a help button ), so I would guess K-x makes a beefed up great beginners camera But if you're going to Japan, and are considering K-x, you probably should buy in Japan - 100 colors are available only there Weatherproofing? I never shot under rain in ~10 months after I picked my first DSLR. So, it turns out I have weatherproofing on my cam, but I never really needed it. Besides, will you go out shooting in the rain and without an umbrella to cover yourself?

09-26-2009, 02:15 PM	#19
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by pokemonsnap By the way, how come most people here seem to point me to K10D and not KX? The K10D seems to be discontinued in Sweden and I don't think I'll have any better luck finding it in Japan. The AA-battery thing i think I can live with since I'm already equipped with rechargables, and in my case the smaller size ought to be a good thing... but what about the lack of weathertighting? Do I need to worry, or will I be fine as long as I avoid canoeing with it? Because the K10D is cheap and have double wheels, pentaprism, grip availability, constumization, ISO button, Program shift, Tav mode, etc etc. Add 18-55 WR and you've got a cam that can go pretty much everywhere. Might not be an advantage depending on where you are using the cam... K10D lose to k-m on size (portability), high ISO (pure speculation since people think it's the same sensor as some nikon / sony cameras), resolution (only slightly, doesn't matter if you dont print big), SR tech (K10D is 2 generation behind), AF alogarithms (K-x should be MUCH faster, depending on your use this might be dealbreaker) colors selection. imho

09-27-2009, 02:20 PM	#20
pokemonsnap New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Original Poster	That sounds like quite a lot to me... I'm curious about the SR though. My hands tend to be rather shakey. I'm also still curious about the weathertighting. I mean, are system cameras more sensitive than compact cameras? If the sky opens, and my camera is inside my bag, do I need to be concerned? Will a few drops be enough to damage it? It's expensive gear and I don't want to push my luck, but I don't want to miss out on good photo opportunities either.

09-27-2009, 03:19 PM	#21
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by pokemonsnap That sounds like quite a lot to me... I'm curious about the SR though. My hands tend to be rather shakey. I'm also still curious about the weathertighting. I mean, are system cameras more sensitive than compact cameras? If the sky opens, and my camera is inside my bag, do I need to be concerned? Will a few drops be enough to damage it? It's expensive gear and I don't want to push my luck, but I don't want to miss out on good photo opportunities either. I've never had an SLR stop working in the rain. The closest to that was my K20D failing to recognize an FA 28-90 f3.5-5.6 (shitty construction, might as well be a sponge) after a good bit of stormblown-rain... the camera itself worked perfectly fine, so I set the aperture manually and focused manually and whatnot and it just kept working. I used an Olympus E-330 (not weathersealed) in a lot of bad weather (my favorite conditions to photograph, really) and never had a problem, and my 40D has seen some light rain with no problems. Generally, if you're just careful and try to minimize water, construction is pretty tight on most DSLRs.

09-27-2009, 11:48 PM	#22
pokemonsnap New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Original Poster	Sounds good. I feel a lot more calm now So, I've kind of managed to settle on buying a k-x. Why? Because currently in Sweden a K10D costs the same as the k-x will in Japan, and there I can get it in pink. Oh, and it supposedly takes great photos and is relatively newbie-friendly and can capture video and will let me make use of my rechargables. The reason I'm not going for the Finepix s200 EXR is because I consider the k-x to be more of an investment for the future, with more opportunities should I become interested in photography... and the price is about the same anyway. Out of curiosity though, could anyone tell me how the k-x compares to EOS 450D/500D, and to the s200 EXR? I originally thought that the k-x was smaller than the EOS for example, but realizing that it's not much of a difference, I now become curious.

09-28-2009, 10:41 AM	#23
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	I'm sure you won't be dissapointed. As far as the size difference from the rebels, the fact is that they're both compact DSLRs. One might be a bit smaller than the other, but functionally there's not a major size difference. Far more important are the camera's ergonomics; many users complain about how the Canon Rebels feel in the hand, while the feel of Pentax's bodies has been praised pretty consistently. I can't really comment on the S200, I have no experience with that type of camera.

09-28-2009, 02:09 PM	#24
pokemonsnap New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Original Poster	Oh. I thought that in nine cases out of ten, something released one year after the other is automatically better in most aspects It turns out I can get the 450d rebel for the same money as i would the k-x. If the ergonomics really are the biggest difference, I'm having second thoughts. I guess I understand now why people direct me to older cameras since what it boils down to, aside from ergonomics, seem to be more petty things like video capture, number of focus points and internal battery etc ... It's a bit calming though to know that I'll get great photos regardless what camera I buy

09-28-2009, 07:40 PM	#25
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	I said that ergonomics were a bigger difference than the size difference, NOT that ergonomics are really the biggest difference overall. I'd say there are a LOT of other differences between the cameras, which would sway me strongly in favor of the pentax, and they really have nothing to do the K-x being newer (I've been using outdated cameras, usually pre-owned, as long as I've been taking pictures). Better construction, far more user-configurable, likely better IQ (given the track record of similar recent sensors in the Nikon D90, Sony A550, etc.), more interesting lenses, in-body shake reduction, and auto ISO that actually works (I can't tell you how much I miss that since moving to Canon...). I see little compelling about the 450D in this situation, especially at equal prices.

09-28-2009, 07:54 PM	#26
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	The majour problems with low-end DSLRs are always the same... small and dark viewfinder and sluggish operation... despite a much better AUTO-mode and smaller size... I'd still stick with a used higher end body... But that's me....

09-29-2009, 08:01 AM	#27
dycz Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 180	Just what like our friend pro-pentaxian benjkan has said "camera nowadays are expensive disposable cameras". it doesn't matter what camera you choose as long as you know how to use it and take advantage of what it can offer. Get only what you can afford. If you have $500-$800 to spend without digging to much in your pocket, then I can say that go for a DSLR. As for canon rebels, I can say that it will really satisfy a starter like you. I was really amazed with the 350D when I first used it. As a friendly advice. Before buying a DSLR try all your choices thats within your budget. Don't just look into canon, nikon... try pentax, sony, panasonic and olympus. Im sure they will all satisfy you.. get what I mean?... Feel the camera and let them impress you.. and choose what your heart really desire. Don't think too much about lenses yet.. Its your first DSLR! Get the kit lens first or a long zoom like the Tammy 18-250. Then upgrade your lens until you have sufficient knowledge so that you will be able to assess what you really need and not merely what you want. Now Im goin to be bias: Seriously though, pentax is a great system. They have the best kitlens in the competition. And since you will be going to japan.. why not try the NEW pentax K-X.... It has lots of colors and guess what - it has HD video! Lots of features as compare to 400D. Its light and small. Best of all, its Pentax!

09-29-2009, 02:29 PM	#28
pokemonsnap New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Original Poster	wow, thanks! i really enjoyed reading that post i'm like "wow, this guy is really 'think about what you're doing, stay cool man...explore the possibilities" ... only to read on and be greeted by "BUY IT MAN!! IT ROCKS!" Seriously. It's very encouraging, moreso than if you had left the first part out. I'll probably get the k-x, though I'll make sure to touch and feel other cameras beforehand. :-) If anyone's interested I might let you know my impressions later on <3

09-29-2009, 06:54 PM	#29
AMBIVALENCE Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 149	I agree. You have to try the camera for 10 mins at least to get a feel if DSLR is for you. I still find it hard to shoot with a DSLR due to the amount of stuff I need to set up before I can get a decent pics. (Aperture, Shutter speed, ISO, EV...), and it could be quite discouraging when you are really used to P/S cameras.