[pingflood]

I wonder if, as with film, the higher the ISO/ASA the greater the lattitude.
It is something I have never considered with my digital camera.
Now I shall have to go out and experiment to see if that is the case.
This photo seems to show exceptional lattitude.

Mickey

Dynamic range generally decreases as ISO increases so a properly exposed image will not benefit from increasing the ISO like somebody suggested above.

[WMBP]

I don't understand. Low iso gives you more dynamic range.

OK, good, a useful disagreement.

I don't think about ISO as affecting dynamic range at all - not that it doesn't, just saying that I don't think about it. I do notice that the D-range feature in the K20D causes the minimum ISO to be raised to 200. Why is that?

Will

[pingflood]

OK, good, a useful disagreement.

I don't think about ISO as affecting dynamic range at all - not that it doesn't, just saying that I don't think about it. I do notice that the D-range feature in the K20D causes the minimum ISO to be raised to 200. Why is that?

Will

Because the camera actually exposes at one stop lower ISO (100 being the lowest real ISO is the reason 200 is the lowest in D-range) and then pushes it up in post to give more retention of highlight detail.

And ISO does affect DR, whether you think about it or not. The K20D has noticeably narrowed DR at say ISO 1600.

[WMBP]

Because the camera actually exposes at one stop lower ISO (100 being the lowest real ISO is the reason 200 is the lowest in D-range) and then pushes it up in post to give more retention of highlight detail.

And ISO does affect DR, whether you think about it or not. The K20D has noticeably narrowed DR at say ISO 1600.

That's why I asked the question, pingflood! Thanks for the explanation.

Will

[Gooshin]

Will,

you should most definitely be aware of Dynamic Range as it relates to ISO, particularly with a camera like the K20D and its similar competitors.

you can check post #13 in this thread where i gave an explanation with regards to the Canon MKii and why it was good.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/off-brand-canon-nikon-etc-camera-talk/757...ay-5d-mki.html

but just to reiterate, Digital Sensors of today have crappy dynamic range (compared to Negative Film) with the exception of the FujiFilm S5Pro (which is no longer in production) the most DR that the typical DSLR can squeeze out (even the best) is around 11.5~12.0, and that is at native ISO, so generally 100-200

but this is nothing compared to 14-15 stops of a good negative, and we havent even touched black and white negatives...

however, 10-12 stops of dynamic range is very usable for 90% of everything we shoot, even on bright sunny days.

8-10 stops of dynamic range is sufficient in broad daylight, and at night, however care must be given to to make sure that the scene itself has a low dynamic range, otherwise you will have to sacrifice either the darks or the highlights

anything less than 7 stops is a pain in the ass WITH DIGITAL (not so much with film)

the problem is compounded by increased NOISE, and as i stated in the other thread, complete blackness + blue/orange/green noise looks a hell of alot worse than just black (slide film)

the K20D has a severe slump of its DR range going into the higher ISO's

the FF canon and nikon maintain their usable DR ranges much better into the higher ISO's, which really is the main reason for a percieved better high ISO image, and not really noise (or lack of it)

[WMBP]

Gooshin,

I'm glad I started this thread as I've learned some interesting things.

Not sure however that this info makes much practical difference to me. I already keep my ISO set as low as I can get away with, in order to reduce noise and maintain detail. It's nice to know I'm also increasing dynamic range. But if I need ISO 1600 to get the shot, well, I'm going to use it. I'm certainly not going to run out and buy a new full frame camera.

I noticed at DxO that the K20D compares more favorably to the Nikon D90 and the Canon 50D than it does to the full-frame cameras. Not surprising but I mention it because this seems a more appropriate comparison. Seems fair to compare apples with apples.

And I'm still wondering why the Canon shooter whose pic I referred to in the first shot here used ISO 1600. I'm still trying to understand kristoffon's reply, but others seem to disagree with him.

Will

[enoeske]

I would venture to say that my other post explains the high ISO quite well.

[Gooshin]

.....I'm certainly not going to run out and buy a new full frame camera.

.....I noticed at DxO that the K20D compares more favorably to the Nikon D90 and the Canon 50D than it does to the full-frame cameras. Not surprising but I mention it because this seems a more appropriate comparison. Seems fair to compare apples with apples.

since you brought up the canon 5D in your original post, i merely showed you why shooting at ISO1600 on a camera such as the 5D would have minimal impact on final image quality compared to lets say a K20D

And I'm still wondering why the Canon shooter whose pic I referred to in the first shot here used ISO 1600. I'm still trying to understand kristoffon's reply, but others seem to disagree with him.

Will

Thats because he is blatantly wrong. The truth is complete opposite of what he said with regards to DR and ISO.

as for my own asusmption, since the photo isnt anything to write home about, i suspect the user simply forgot to change the ISO after leaving an indoor place...

or perhaps he wanted a grainier image for a film like quality?

[Alfisti]

He used ISo for the same reason a dog licks his balls. Because he can.

[pingflood]

but this is nothing compared to 14-15 stops of a good negative, and we havent even touched black and white negatives...

Mmm hmm, let's see some proof of this. 14-15 stops out of a color neg?

I can point you to Roger Clark's excellent research for starters, so go ahead and read that and then refute it if you don't mind.
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/film.vs.digital.summary1.html

[Gooshin]

Mmm hmm, let's see some proof of this. 14-15 stops out of a color neg?

I can point you to Roger Clark's excellent research for starters, so go ahead and read that and then refute it if you don't mind.
Clarkvision: Film versus Digital Summary

http://fork.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p792363000-4.jpg

http://fork.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p721033088-4.jpg

i cannot backup the numbers, however i can tell from experience how much more range i can pack into my film shots.

call it what you will.

also, may i point out, that the article you posted, does not have the word NEGATIVE pop out a single time. He is comparing digital to SLIDE film, which is known to have low dynamic range.

[Gooshin]

here is one of my slide photos..

at first glance (and even upon close inspection) this is no different from a typical non-HDR shot you would expect from a digital camera

http://fork.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p199085809-4.jpg

yet i guarantee that you shoot the same scene with a negative, that wall will maintain its texture and true colour rather than washed out white.

[pingflood]

Kodak Gold 200 isn't a slide film, Beavis. (And the word you were looking for was "print" not "negative" in that particular article...)

And I'd be inclined to take the extensive research from guys like Roger Clark and Norman Koren on this topic over your empirical evidence eyeballing things. 14-15 stops out of ANY color neg film? Hogwash. Out of well processed Tmax? That I can believe.

[Gooshin]

Kodak Gold 200 isn't a slide film, Beavis.

And I'd be inclined to take the extensive research from guys like Roger Clark and Norman Koren on this topic over your empirical evidence eyeballing things.

my eyeballs are very sensitive

i will agree that the 14-15 stops out of colour neg on my part is hearsay, from random readings. However i place value on my own empirical evidence, since after all, in photography, the end product is whats important.

look at the second photo i posted, the sky is still a deep blue and you could see details in the shadows around me. I am certain any digital camera would have the skies a pale blue if not borederline white to achieve the same shadow detail in a single frame.