Very interesting thread from a Nikon->Pentax jumper

lithos · 11-13-2009, 08:20 AM

I love how the guy bitching about Pentax not making the right gear is called "Samsungian."

**rparmar** · 11-13-2009, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Only time will reveal what lenses were built to last:

Classic, epic Pentax Made in Japan, or current Pentax Assembled in VietNam.

I am not sure what your point is, in a discussion of Pentax versus other brands. Are you saying that Pentax lenses are made worse than some of the Canon lenses that fall apart? Or some of the over-priced Nikon glass with obvious flaws? Are you saying that some companies are immune from defects while others are not? All of this would be news to me.

I prefer to evaluate each lens on its own merits, regardless of bias as to where it was put together. This sort of inherent xenophobia has in the past set people against Japanese lenses, the very country that now apparently cannot be surpassed in workmanship. Phooey!

In a few months everything will be much simpler. After all, with everyone else going bust there will be no manufacturers in existence except Canon and Nikon, right?

And all their lenses will be made in Samoa.

SteveM · 11-13-2009, 09:06 AM

So are you staying with Samsung....moving to Nikon, or ???? See comments in red below....

Originally posted by Samsungian

I'd like to see Hoya's Pentax logo succeed.

However K-7 is too small for me, so I'll pass

OK.....Pentax has, since the M line, had smaller gear...so perhaps it's not for you.

SDM lenses are having 1st generation design flaws, so I'll pass

Some like SDM, some don't, but there are choices with DAs, FAs etc.

Epic Japan made Limited Lens production lines are now outsourced to VietNam so I'll pass

I'm quite certain that Samsung will not be opening a camera/lens plant in Japan any time soon. I am not sure if Nikon has finished it's transfer and has shut down the Japan plant. I believe all new models are out of the Thailand plant. Not sure about Canon's transfer. You can bet that over the next few years, all new gear will come from anywhere except Japan.

I don't get all giddy when any camera maker offers a new budget dslr, even if available in 100 colors & for Japan market only so I'll pass

K20D is great camera to drive my old Pentax glass. Theres nothing new left for me to buy. I still look at used items but those are more like shopping opportunities not planned purchases.

Will Hoya recall the defective SDM lenses?
Will Hoya continue to shrink their aps-c dslr platform?
Will Hoya make a full frame K-mount dslr available, & for sale?

I hope we will see a decrease in SDM drive issues. I would presume the replacement drives would have corrected components.
I agree, Pentax needs to release a FF

I don't care about 645D and from lack of any overwhelming posts from pentaxians saying they want 645D at any price I'd say most potential buyers with cash inhand don't care either.

I don't agree. I'll be buying one if it isn't 10K and is available. It's naive to think that this exposure won't also drive sales of other camera lines.

Pentax is profitable now, with far fewer employees, with fewer manufacturing plants. I see ads for them too. But for me theres nothing new to purchase. Even if they offer K-7 in 100 colors only in Japan, its still too small for me. And I do not live in Japan.

OK...so you are saying you are dropping Pentax.....then presumably you are also ditching Samsung.....or are you holding your breath waiting to see what Samsung brings out? It's not like Samsung has a history of producing quality camera products on their own and to be quite frank, the sensor that they have produced has been problematic. High ISO issues for Pentax are due to problems with Samsung....not Pentax. If anything, Samsung's departure from photography would probably result in higher quality within the industry.

Samsungian · 11-13-2009, 09:16 AM

Samsung supplied Pentax with K20D & K-7 sensors

Though it would appear the Sony K-x sensor is better than Samsung K-7 sensor.

Its nice Hoya can source more than one manufacturer for sensors.

Isn't 645D supposed to be based on Kodak made sensor?

Originally posted by lithos

I love how the guy bitching about Pentax not making the right gear is called "Samsungian."

Samsungian · 11-13-2009, 09:22 AM

I already added Canon and Nikon to my Pentax/Samsung kit.

As you'll notice thats what alot of pentaxians have also done and then discuss in this:

" Off-Brand (Canon, Nikon, ect...) " forum.

Originally posted by smc

So are you staying with Samsung....moving to Nikon, or ???? See comments in red below....

alexeyga · 11-13-2009, 10:29 AM

Interesting, but rather silly read.... I can write the same text, but the other way around.

Went from K10&K7 to D300s and I see nothing but improvement and the only thing I can bitch about is the camera's shear size and weight.

For a prime shooter, Pentax is hard to beat... but for a real-life shooter, that has no time to change the damn lenses it is not an issue... As much as I love primes, just as much I hate switching them when working or traveling...

Speaking about lenses, in the original post the guy is fairly anal about the 31lim... It's one fine lens, but at over 1K$CAN street price, I don't really see how Nikon's glass is THAT much more expensive... After the last price "adjustment" Pentax doesn't quite have any price advantage at all...

joele · 11-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

My definition is "outsourcing" is done to cut manufacturing cost, not to improve quality control.

Of course it is but they are offshoring not outsourcing, I had Nikon lenses made in China too... But hey Sigma is still made in Japan and they still have my award for the worst QC out of any brand I have bought...

I was picking on 'outsourcing' as setting a plant up in another country isn't outsourcing, its doing your production in another country to save costs (offshoring)... Its capitalisation, you set up plants where labour laws are more leniant than your home country, modern day slavery, but different to outsourcing...

outsourcing = "Outsourcing is an arrangement in which one company provides services for another company that could also be or usually have been provided in-house."

Last edited by joele; 11-13-2009 at 04:44 PM.

lesmore49 · 11-13-2009, 07:09 PM

Who knows in this recession economy, which company will succeed. The only division that is doing well in Canon is the DSLR...copiers, etc....are down.

Nikon...only makes cameras , binocs and lenses....all eggs in one basket. Forty years ago in Economics 101, my prof. told the class that's no way to run a company.

Diversify he said.

Pentax...used to have medical equipment, cameras, binocs, etc. Then Hoya bought Pentax and seem to be interested in unloading Pentax cameras.

Hopefully they will find a big electronics firm to take over...like Sony did with Minolta-Konica. A company that will have it's heart in Pentax DSLR's. The name Pentax is still a viable brand to market.l

Sony has it's share of problems...large layoffs, overheating batteries, etc.

No one is doing well right now. If I was a newbie just getting into DSLR's, I'm not sure which brand I would choose...especially on the basis of which company will survive.

I've been around too long and seen too many, once proud companies bankrupt and then go down the tubes.

At this point, the only camera company I really have any concerns about , is Pentax as I have lot's of money invested in bodies and cameras.

But, if Pentax dies...what to do ?

It's obvious...use my Pentax equipment till it dies and then bite the bullet and buy DSLR equipment from whatever manufacturer seems to have the best chance of survival, which is anybody's guess...see above.

I've had Pentax SLR's, DSLR's, lenses since 1968...so far few problems and nothing that couldn't be fixed cheaply by the local camera repair.

My S1a...had to have it's film advance lever repaired. It was bent in a car accident.

My ES 11 had to have some internal repairs. That was 35 years ago. Very minor.

My K1000 had to have the shutter adjusted and a CLA. That was in 2000. We bought the camera in 1981. Not bad.

Lessseee...I'm 60 years old now. I have a 2 year old K10D and a 6 month old KM, plus lot's of lenses.

I use the equipment almost on a daily basis. So far...touch wood...all OK.

If Pentax goes belly up, I would probably buy a new or lightly used K20D or K7.

If all this lasts till I'm 70...I'd be happy.

By 70 I have to cash out some of my investments...so by that time, probably would treat myself to whatever brand seems to have the best survival chance.

But, I don't think Pentax is going anywhere...they have been in business (Asahi Optical Co.) since 1919 and continued under different names during the past 90 years.

Nikon and Canon have also been around for a good long time. There is a big demand for DSLR's.

So what's to worry ?

tdmsu · 11-13-2009, 07:30 PM

I moved from Nikon to Pentax for similar reasons as the OP.
A K1000 was my first camera, but I had to sell that to afford the Nikkormat Ftn I needed to share lenses when I worked at the newspaper when I was in college. My first digital was a D40 (now my wife's), but I wanted to use old glass.
I switched to a Pentax k100d super because I knew I wanted to use older lenses, and because it would be cheaper to fund LBA with Pentax.
I am very happy with Pentax!

dycz · 11-14-2009, 06:00 AM

I moved from nikon to pentax too... but for no reason because I just like the K10D that time with some old manual lenses (what a heaven to use)....

I think I should post my shifting from nikon to pentax to get more advertisement... hehehe....

Now that the new K-x has the high ISO ability... Hmmm.. I wonder what would canon and nikon would release to fight with the K-X (full packed entry level dslr).

jsherman999 · 11-14-2009, 09:59 PM

.

Another interesting thread - the K-x is gathering attention, just as I thought it would --> link.

.

Blue · 11-15-2009, 12:13 AM

There's a good chance that Nikon could go bankrupt before Pentax. What would be interesting is if Hoya were to sell the camera unit of Pentax. Who would keep the Pentax name? When Minolta shut down the camera plant, they kept using the name. So when Sony bought the plant and hired some of the employees (including engineers etc.), they came up with the Alpha name. Would Hoya keep the Pentax name or sell it with the Camera unit? I think they would have a hell of a time selling the camera unit without the name.

Samsungian · 11-15-2009, 07:19 AM

Did you read the idea Nikon could go bankrupt at Thom Hogan's Nov 12th blog?

Thom Hogan's Nikon Field Guide and Nikon Flash Guide

Originally posted by Blue

There's a good chance that Nikon could go bankrupt before Pentax. What would be interesting is if Hoya were to sell the camera unit of Pentax. Who would keep the Pentax name? When Minolta shut down the camera plant, they kept using the name. So when Sony bought the plant and hired some of the employees (including engineers etc.), they came up with the Alpha name. Would Hoya keep the Pentax name or sell it with the Camera unit? I think they would have a hell of a time selling the camera unit without the name.

Blue · 11-15-2009, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Did you read the idea Nikon could go bankrupt at Thom Hogan's Nov 12th blog?

Thom Hogan's Nikon Field Guide and Nikon Flash Guide

No, I did not read that blog. In fact, I read very few blogs and even those I only look at occasionally. However, if you look at my post, you will see that I said there is a "good chance Nikon will go bankrupt BEFORE Pentax." I didn't say I thought either of them would go bankrupt.

Samsungian · 11-15-2009, 02:28 PM

Here's the Bloomberg link to current nikon financials. I agree, Nikon isn't going bankrupt even though sales are down year over year.

Nikon Narrows Loss Forecast on Camera Unit Outlook (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

Originally posted by Blue

No, I did not read that blog. In fact, I read very few blogs and even those I only look at occasionally. However, if you look at my post, you will see that I said there is a "good chance Nikon will go bankrupt BEFORE Pentax." I didn't say I thought either of them would go bankrupt.

11-13-2009, 09:16 AM	#19
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Samsung supplied Pentax with K20D & K-7 sensors Samsung supplied Pentax with K20D & K-7 sensors Though it would appear the Sony K-x sensor is better than Samsung K-7 sensor. Its nice Hoya can source more than one manufacturer for sensors. Isn't 645D supposed to be based on Kodak made sensor? Originally posted by lithos I love how the guy bitching about Pentax not making the right gear is called "Samsungian."

11-13-2009, 09:22 AM	#20
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	I already added Canon and Nikon to my Pentax/Samsung kit I already added Canon and Nikon to my Pentax/Samsung kit. As you'll notice thats what alot of pentaxians have also done and then discuss in this: " Off-Brand (Canon, Nikon, ect...) " forum. Originally posted by smc So are you staying with Samsung....moving to Nikon, or ???? See comments in red below....

11-15-2009, 07:19 AM	#28
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Did you read the idea Nikon could go bankrupt at Did you read the idea Nikon could go bankrupt at Thom Hogan's Nov 12th blog? Thom Hogan's Nikon Field Guide and Nikon Flash Guide Originally posted by Blue There's a good chance that Nikon could go bankrupt before Pentax. What would be interesting is if Hoya were to sell the camera unit of Pentax. Who would keep the Pentax name? When Minolta shut down the camera plant, they kept using the name. So when Sony bought the plant and hired some of the employees (including engineers etc.), they came up with the Alpha name. Would Hoya keep the Pentax name or sell it with the Camera unit? I think they would have a hell of a time selling the camera unit without the name.

11-15-2009, 02:28 PM	#30
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Neither headed for bunkruptcy. OK Here's the Bloomberg link to current nikon financials. I agree, Nikon isn't going bankrupt even though sales are down year over year. Nikon Narrows Loss Forecast on Camera Unit Outlook (Update1) - Bloomberg.com Originally posted by Blue No, I did not read that blog. In fact, I read very few blogs and even those I only look at occasionally. However, if you look at my post, you will see that I said there is a "good chance Nikon will go bankrupt *BEFORE* Pentax." I didn't say I thought either of them would go bankrupt.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Interesting thread; adjusting output on the Pentax flashes	Russell-Evans	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	22	01-06-2011 08:41 AM
Interesting info for Nikon Lenses	Aegon	Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands	27	10-24-2010 12:10 PM
Hmmmm...Interesting Canon Thread	benjikan	Photographic Technique	9	06-30-2008 01:53 PM
Funny thread - Pentax and Nikon battle	tybeck	General Talk	2	05-15-2008 04:21 PM
interesting nikon/canon rival survey	kenyee	Pentax DSLR Discussion	12	12-19-2007 07:36 AM

11-13-2009, 08:20 AM	#16
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	I love how the guy bitching about Pentax not making the right gear is called "Samsungian."

11-13-2009, 08:30 AM	#17
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,817	Originally posted by Samsungian Only time will reveal what lenses were built to last: Classic, epic Pentax Made in Japan, or current Pentax Assembled in VietNam. I am not sure what your point is, in a discussion of Pentax versus other brands. Are you saying that Pentax lenses are made worse than some of the Canon lenses that fall apart? Or some of the over-priced Nikon glass with obvious flaws? Are you saying that some companies are immune from defects while others are not? All of this would be news to me. I prefer to evaluate each lens on its own merits, regardless of bias as to where it was put together. This sort of inherent xenophobia has in the past set people against Japanese lenses, the very country that now apparently cannot be surpassed in workmanship. Phooey! In a few months everything will be much simpler. After all, with everyone else going bust there will be no manufacturers in existence except Canon and Nikon, right? And all their lenses will be made in Samoa.

11-13-2009, 09:06 AM	#18
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	So are you staying with Samsung....moving to Nikon, or ???? See comments in red below.... Originally posted by Samsungian I'd like to see Hoya's Pentax logo succeed. However K-7 is too small for me, so I'll pass OK.....Pentax has, since the M line, had smaller gear...so perhaps it's not for you. SDM lenses are having 1st generation design flaws, so I'll pass Some like SDM, some don't, but there are choices with DAs, FAs etc. Epic Japan made Limited Lens production lines are now outsourced to VietNam so I'll pass I'm quite certain that Samsung will not be opening a camera/lens plant in Japan any time soon. I am not sure if Nikon has finished it's transfer and has shut down the Japan plant. I believe all new models are out of the Thailand plant. Not sure about Canon's transfer. You can bet that over the next few years, all new gear will come from anywhere except Japan. I don't get all giddy when any camera maker offers a new budget dslr, even if available in 100 colors & for Japan market only so I'll pass K20D is great camera to drive my old Pentax glass. Theres nothing new left for me to buy. I still look at used items but those are more like shopping opportunities not planned purchases. Will Hoya recall the defective SDM lenses? Will Hoya continue to shrink their aps-c dslr platform? Will Hoya make a full frame K-mount dslr available, & for sale? I hope we will see a decrease in SDM drive issues. I would presume the replacement drives would have corrected components. I agree, Pentax needs to release a FF I don't care about 645D and from lack of any overwhelming posts from pentaxians saying they want 645D at any price I'd say most potential buyers with cash inhand don't care either. I don't agree. I'll be buying one if it isn't 10K and is available. It's naive to think that this exposure won't also drive sales of other camera lines. Pentax is profitable now, with far fewer employees, with fewer manufacturing plants. I see ads for them too. But for me theres nothing new to purchase. Even if they offer K-7 in 100 colors only in Japan, its still too small for me. And I do not live in Japan. OK...so you are saying you are dropping Pentax.....then presumably you are also ditching Samsung.....or are you holding your breath waiting to see what Samsung brings out? It's not like Samsung has a history of producing quality camera products on their own and to be quite frank, the sensor that they have produced has been problematic. High ISO issues for Pentax are due to problems with Samsung....not Pentax. If anything, Samsung's departure from photography would probably result in higher quality within the industry.

11-13-2009, 10:29 AM	#21
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Interesting, but rather silly read.... I can write the same text, but the other way around. Went from K10&K7 to D300s and I see nothing but improvement and the only thing I can bitch about is the camera's shear size and weight. For a prime shooter, Pentax is hard to beat... but for a real-life shooter, that has no time to change the damn lenses it is not an issue... As much as I love primes, just as much I hate switching them when working or traveling... Speaking about lenses, in the original post the guy is fairly anal about the 31lim... It's one fine lens, but at over 1K$CAN street price, I don't really see how Nikon's glass is THAT much more expensive... After the last price "adjustment" Pentax doesn't quite have any price advantage at all...

11-13-2009, 04:28 PM	#22
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	Originally posted by Samsungian My definition is "outsourcing" is done to cut manufacturing cost, not to improve quality control. Of course it is but they are offshoring not outsourcing, I had Nikon lenses made in China too... But hey Sigma is still made in Japan and they still have my award for the worst QC out of any brand I have bought... I was picking on 'outsourcing' as setting a plant up in another country isn't outsourcing, its doing your production in another country to save costs (offshoring)... Its capitalisation, you set up plants where labour laws are more leniant than your home country, modern day slavery, but different to outsourcing... outsourcing = "Outsourcing is an arrangement in which one company provides services for another company that could also be or usually have been provided in-house." Last edited by joele; 11-13-2009 at 04:44 PM.

11-13-2009, 07:09 PM	#23
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,330	Who knows in this recession economy, which company will succeed. The only division that is doing well in Canon is the DSLR...copiers, etc....are down. Nikon...only makes cameras , binocs and lenses....all eggs in one basket. Forty years ago in Economics 101, my prof. told the class that's no way to run a company. Diversify he said. Pentax...used to have medical equipment, cameras, binocs, etc. Then Hoya bought Pentax and seem to be interested in unloading Pentax cameras. Hopefully they will find a big electronics firm to take over...like Sony did with Minolta-Konica. A company that will have it's heart in Pentax DSLR's. The name Pentax is still a viable brand to market.l Sony has it's share of problems...large layoffs, overheating batteries, etc. No one is doing well right now. If I was a newbie just getting into DSLR's, I'm not sure which brand I would choose...especially on the basis of which company will survive. I've been around too long and seen too many, once proud companies bankrupt and then go down the tubes. At this point, the only camera company I really have any concerns about , is Pentax as I have lot's of money invested in bodies and cameras. But, if Pentax dies...what to do ? It's obvious...use my Pentax equipment till it dies and then bite the bullet and buy DSLR equipment from whatever manufacturer seems to have the best chance of survival, which is anybody's guess...see above. I've had Pentax SLR's, DSLR's, lenses since 1968...so far few problems and nothing that couldn't be fixed cheaply by the local camera repair. My S1a...had to have it's film advance lever repaired. It was bent in a car accident. My ES 11 had to have some internal repairs. That was 35 years ago. Very minor. My K1000 had to have the shutter adjusted and a CLA. That was in 2000. We bought the camera in 1981. Not bad. Lessseee...I'm 60 years old now. I have a 2 year old K10D and a 6 month old KM, plus lot's of lenses. I use the equipment almost on a daily basis. So far...touch wood...all OK. If Pentax goes belly up, I would probably buy a new or lightly used K20D or K7. If all this lasts till I'm 70...I'd be happy. By 70 I have to cash out some of my investments...so by that time, probably would treat myself to whatever brand seems to have the best survival chance. But, I don't think Pentax is going anywhere...they have been in business (Asahi Optical Co.) since 1919 and continued under different names during the past 90 years. Nikon and Canon have also been around for a good long time. There is a big demand for DSLR's. So what's to worry ?

11-13-2009, 07:30 PM	#24
tdmsu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 131	I moved from Nikon to Pentax for similar reasons as the OP. A K1000 was my first camera, but I had to sell that to afford the Nikkormat Ftn I needed to share lenses when I worked at the newspaper when I was in college. My first digital was a D40 (now my wife's), but I wanted to use old glass. I switched to a Pentax k100d super because I knew I wanted to use older lenses, and because it would be cheaper to fund LBA with Pentax. I am very happy with Pentax!

11-14-2009, 06:00 AM	#25
dycz Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 180	I moved from nikon to pentax too... but for no reason because I just like the K10D that time with some old manual lenses (what a heaven to use).... I think I should post my shifting from nikon to pentax to get more advertisement... hehehe.... Now that the new K-x has the high ISO ability... Hmmm.. I wonder what would canon and nikon would release to fight with the K-X (full packed entry level dslr).

11-14-2009, 09:59 PM	#26
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237 Original Poster	. Another interesting thread - the K-x is gathering attention, just as I thought it would --> link. .

11-15-2009, 12:13 AM	#27
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	There's a good chance that Nikon could go bankrupt before Pentax. What would be interesting is if Hoya were to sell the camera unit of Pentax. Who would keep the Pentax name? When Minolta shut down the camera plant, they kept using the name. So when Sony bought the plant and hired some of the employees (including engineers etc.), they came up with the Alpha name. Would Hoya keep the Pentax name or sell it with the Camera unit? I think they would have a hell of a time selling the camera unit without the name.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-15-2009, 10:04 AM	#29
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Samsungian Did you read the idea Nikon could go bankrupt at Thom Hogan's Nov 12th blog? Thom Hogan's Nikon Field Guide and Nikon Flash Guide No, I did not read that blog. In fact, I read very few blogs and even those I only look at occasionally. However, if you look at my post, you will see that I said there is a "good chance Nikon will go bankrupt *BEFORE* Pentax." I didn't say I thought either of them would go bankrupt.