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11-20-2009, 10:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
You and me and maybe five others seem to be part of the small group of "People who think there are numerous advantages to AA batteries."

(Could be renamed to "People who regularly shoot more than five miles from their house.")

And you can use those AAs for myriad other things. I'm not saying Li-Ions are bad, but the option of having AAs as well (as with the K-7's grip, which is a beautiful thing) is a bloody great idea.
I think the AA holder for the grip would be the best solution for me. I don't usually much care for proprietary things, but a AA *option* would be sufficient for me, without meaning I'd have to live with the attendant hassles on a daily basis.

11-20-2009, 12:53 PM   #17
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sign me up Lithos! I love using my eneloops and whatever you call those ones that come with the K200d body (they last *FOREVER*).
11-20-2009, 11:45 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by heliphoto Quote
This is a telling sentence - I loved the feel of the K-7 also, but if I still had it, I can't think of a time when I would use it over the 5D.
You're kidding me right? I'd pick up the K-7 over the 5D any day of the week if it could do a couple things for me:

(1) Mount Nikon F and Olympus Zuiko lenses
(2) Give me more DoF control (basically saying, FF sensor)


Conversely, the only time I pick up my 5D is when I want to go out and shoot with my Nikon/Zuiko manual focus lenses (Zuiko 21/2, 50/1.2, 85/2, Nikkor 85/2, 105/2.5) or when I need maximum DoF control (i.e., shallowest possible DoF) with my tilt shift lenses (Hartblei 35/2.8, 80/2.8 Super Rotators). Also I have the Sigma 8mm circular fisheye in EF.

So basically, I have a set of lenses I want to use, but only can be used on EF mount or can only be maximized on FF sensor, then I'm forced to use the 5D. But it's loathsome. The LCD is the worst piece of crap I have seen on an DSLR. FPS sucks, buffer sucks (despite having the fastest CF card possible inside), it's huge, heavy, metering with manufal focus lenses is a joke, color rendition is mediocre compared to my K-7, lack of Live View totally sucks (esp. with my tilt/shift lenses), lack of built-in IS is often frustrating, getting at what I consider basic functions like bracket exposures and 2s timers is painfully convoluted, and high ISO advantage over the K-7 is much smaller than I thought.

Add to this some of the K-7 features that I've grown so accustomed to, like the built-in digital level and sensor shift recomposition, it's actually a wonder I do go out with my 5D so often. The fact is, I consider lenses the most important parts of my photography gear, and I will choose and use bodies based on what will utilize the lenses, whether it be my K-7, 5D, 501CM, Kiev-60, or Super Speed Graphic. Of all of these bodies, though, if I were to pick a camera *body* per se that gives me the most satisfaction of handling, it's the K-7 (with the 501CM coming closely behind). 5D is right down there with my Kiev-60 :LOL:
11-21-2009, 05:00 AM   #19
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So much 5D hate yet: "it's actually a wonder I do go out with my 5D so often."

So much 5D hate yet: "it's actually a wonder I do go out with my 5D so often."

Yeah 5D classic is old, like 2005 technology. Thats a bummer you're saddled with using a camera you hate using and stuck using old & slow Extreme III CF cards, or are you using UDMA CF cards? Tell me about these fastest CF available you use in 5D ?

Let me guess:

If your 5D died, you'd buy another one huh?

Or would you pay more for a new 5D Mark II ?

Wouldn't a better comparision be 2005 era Pentax Dslr versus 2005 era 5D ?

Or to make it more real ,you know like comparing a 2009 K-7 to 2005 5D, please instead compare 2 years earlier istD to Canon 5D. I think istD comparision is fair having paid $1750 new for my 5D and istD launched at $1899. That means I paid less for my full frame 5D than the first wave of pentax dslr owners paid for their istD

Maybe you should sell off your fungus friendly OM glass collection & your crappy 5D dslr to buy a real camera to drive your remaining nikon lenses?

D700












QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
You're kidding me right? I'd pick up the K-7 over the 5D any day of the week if it could do a couple things for me:

(1) Mount Nikon F and Olympus Zuiko lenses
(2) Give me more DoF control (basically saying, FF sensor)


Conversely, the only time I pick up my 5D is when I want to go out and shoot with my Nikon/Zuiko manual focus lenses (Zuiko 21/2, 50/1.2, 85/2, Nikkor 85/2, 105/2.5) or when I need maximum DoF control (i.e., shallowest possible DoF) with my tilt shift lenses (Hartblei 35/2.8, 80/2.8 Super Rotators). Also I have the Sigma 8mm circular fisheye in EF.

So basically, I have a set of lenses I want to use, but only can be used on EF mount or can only be maximized on FF sensor, then I'm forced to use the 5D. But it's loathsome. The LCD is the worst piece of crap I have seen on an DSLR. FPS sucks, buffer sucks (despite having the fastest CF card possible inside), it's huge, heavy, metering with manufal focus lenses is a joke, color rendition is mediocre compared to my K-7, lack of Live View totally sucks (esp. with my tilt/shift lenses), lack of built-in IS is often frustrating, getting at what I consider basic functions like bracket exposures and 2s timers is painfully convoluted, and high ISO advantage over the K-7 is much smaller than I thought.

Add to this some of the K-7 features that I've grown so accustomed to, like the built-in digital level and sensor shift recomposition, it's actually a wonder I do go out with my 5D so often. The fact is, I consider lenses the most important parts of my photography gear, and I will choose and use bodies based on what will utilize the lenses, whether it be my K-7, 5D, 501CM, Kiev-60, or Super Speed Graphic. Of all of these bodies, though, if I were to pick a camera *body* per se that gives me the most satisfaction of handling, it's the K-7 (with the 501CM coming closely behind). 5D is right down there with my Kiev-60 :LOL:



Last edited by Samsungian; 11-21-2009 at 05:05 AM.
11-21-2009, 10:59 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
You're kidding me right? I'd pick up the K-7 over the 5D any day of the week if it could do a couple things for me:...
Wow... rough... I had no idea the Mark II was that much of an improvement (though I haven't used it for too long, so we're still in a honeymoon phase ).
QuoteQuote:
The LCD is the worst piece of crap I have seen on an DSLR.
Well they addressed this in the Mark II - the screen is unbelievable, miles beyond the K-7 (and somewhat better than the K20D, bigger mainly). With my k-7 I could not determine whether I had nailed focus using the screen - it was soft all over at high zoom, whereas the 5D2 has a beautiful screen which is actually usefull at high zoom - it's so good you can use it to calibrate focus without reviewing focus on a bigger screen (like you could on the K20D too).

QuoteQuote:
FPS sucks, buffer sucks (despite having the fastest CF card possible inside)
Again, apparently they addressed this well in the mark II since the FPS is just barely slower than the K-7 (but you don't buy a 5D for machine gunning do you) while the buffer holds about the same number of shots (at about 25% bigger file size) and write times are better than the K-7 (in my experience, this may not be true in reality)

QuoteQuote:
metering with manufal focus lenses is a joke
Metering with my Tamron SP 400mm f/4 (the only manual focus lens I have an adapter for right now - no electronics in the adaptall->eos, just dumb metal) is absolutely fantastic - as good if not better than with any Pentax I've used (K200D, K20D, K-7). Av works perfectly!

The live view and video implementations are better in my opinion than the K-7, though only marginally so.
QuoteQuote:
lack of built-in IS is often frustrating,
I hear you on this count, but so far, it hasn't been a problem for me - we'll see if I become more frustrated on this count.

QuoteQuote:
getting at what I consider basic functions like bracket exposures and 2s timers is painfully convoluted
On the Mk II, the 2sec timer is equal in access complexity to the K-7 - button press followed by scroll to the mode you want. I've added the Exposure compensation menu (which is irritating that it's buried in a menu) to the User Menu and when I'm out landscape shooting (which is where I use bracketing sometimes) I leave the menu on that option, so all I need to do is press menu->set-> and dial the bracketing desired. The k20d's bracketing button is far and away superior in this regard.
11-21-2009, 10:53 PM   #21
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Holy crap! I sure must've hit a fanboy nerve, here, huh? :LOLOLOL:

I tell it like it is. Yes, 5D is OLD, but a used 5D body costs just as much as a new K-7 body today so the comparison is fair (in fact, K-7 prices have come down and so they might be cheaper already). Besides, I friggin' own and use both, so of course the comparison is fair.

I am pretty sure the Mk II improved on many of the issues I raised, but that is totally irrelevant because I am talking about the 5D, and I'm telling you about my experiences with the 5D.


And, sorry, of all the DSLRs out there, Nikon is the last one I'd consider because it is the only mount that can't properly mount any of my relatively extensive collection of (non-Nikon) manual focus 135 format lenses (which includes 15x M42, 5x PK, 3x OM, 1x EF, and 1x QBM).


Besides, I'd chuck my two Nikkors any day of the week if the alternative was to give up my Zuiko 21/2


QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
So much 5D hate yet: "it's actually a wonder I do go out with my 5D so often."

Yeah 5D classic is old, like 2005 technology. Thats a bummer you're saddled with using a camera you hate using and stuck using old & slow Extreme III CF cards, or are you using UDMA CF cards? Tell me about these fastest CF available you use in 5D ?

Let me guess:

If your 5D died, you'd buy another one huh?

Or would you pay more for a new 5D Mark II ?

Wouldn't a better comparision be 2005 era Pentax Dslr versus 2005 era 5D ?

Or to make it more real ,you know like comparing a 2009 K-7 to 2005 5D, please instead compare 2 years earlier istD to Canon 5D. I think istD comparision is fair having paid $1750 new for my 5D and istD launched at $1899. That means I paid less for my full frame 5D than the first wave of pentax dslr owners paid for their istD

Maybe you should sell off your fungus friendly OM glass collection & your crappy 5D dslr to buy a real camera to drive your remaining nikon lenses?

D700

Last edited by RawheaD; 11-21-2009 at 11:53 PM.
11-21-2009, 11:02 PM   #22
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Thosre are good things to hear about the Mk II. If my 5D were to die, I would need to get another EF mount FF camera, so obviously the Mk II would be the number 1 candidate. Hopefully that won't happen until I can really afford the Mk II :-)


The fact of the matter is, if there is one reason I will never be able to completely shift over to Canon is the lack of built-in IS. I have too much fun shooting my MF lenses, and being able to shoot a 50mm lens at 1/4s with confidence is priceless. Hence, the other possibility that I will have to really consider for the next FF camera is the Sony offering.




QuoteOriginally posted by heliphoto Quote
Wow... rough... I had no idea the Mark II was that much of an improvement (though I haven't used it for too long, so we're still in a honeymoon phase ).

Well they addressed this in the Mark II - the screen is unbelievable, miles beyond the K-7 (and somewhat better than the K20D, bigger mainly). With my k-7 I could not determine whether I had nailed focus using the screen - it was soft all over at high zoom, whereas the 5D2 has a beautiful screen which is actually usefull at high zoom - it's so good you can use it to calibrate focus without reviewing focus on a bigger screen (like you could on the K20D too).


Again, apparently they addressed this well in the mark II since the FPS is just barely slower than the K-7 (but you don't buy a 5D for machine gunning do you) while the buffer holds about the same number of shots (at about 25% bigger file size) and write times are better than the K-7 (in my experience, this may not be true in reality)


Metering with my Tamron SP 400mm f/4 (the only manual focus lens I have an adapter for right now - no electronics in the adaptall->eos, just dumb metal) is absolutely fantastic - as good if not better than with any Pentax I've used (K200D, K20D, K-7). Av works perfectly!

The live view and video implementations are better in my opinion than the K-7, though only marginally so.

I hear you on this count, but so far, it hasn't been a problem for me - we'll see if I become more frustrated on this count.


On the Mk II, the 2sec timer is equal in access complexity to the K-7 - button press followed by scroll to the mode you want. I've added the Exposure compensation menu (which is irritating that it's buried in a menu) to the User Menu and when I'm out landscape shooting (which is where I use bracketing sometimes) I leave the menu on that option, so all I need to do is press menu->set-> and dial the bracketing desired. The k20d's bracketing button is far and away superior in this regard.


11-22-2009, 06:39 AM   #23
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OM System Glass on Sony Alpha Adapter ?

OM System Glass on Sony Alpha Adapter ?
Good Luck with making that combo happen.

One of the reasons I got into eos mount is its extreme adaptability to other glass mounts. Well that & when I bought my 5D Classic new it was $449 more than K20D. I have a feeling you're stuck using eos full frame forever, well until you sell your Oly 21mm f2 ect.

This thread has confirmed one thing for me, my next Dslr will be 5D Mark II though I am still quite pleased with 5D Classic, the improvements to Mark II are compelling. I just wish it cost $500-$700 less, then I'd have one. I just refuse to pay full list (again) for a dslr.

Had you skipped buying Pentax K-7 you would have had about 1/2 the money needed for 5D Mark II. Then you could have sold off your sad 5D classic and PRESTO:

You'd have a 5D Mark II in your kit instead, today.





QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Holy crap! I sure must've hit a fanboy nerve, here, huh? :LOLOLOL:

I tell it like it is. Yes, 5D is OLD, but a used 5D body costs just as much as a new K-7 body today so the comparison is fair (in fact, K-7 prices have come down and so they might be cheaper already). Besides, I friggin' own and use both, so of course the comparison is fair.

I am pretty sure the Mk II improved on many of the issues I raised, but that is totally irrelevant because I am talking about the 5D, and I'm telling you about my experiences with the 5D.


And, sorry, of all the DSLRs out there, Nikon is the last one I'd consider because it is the only mount that can't properly mount any of my relatively extensive collection of (non-Nikon) manual focus 135 format lenses (which includes 15x M42, 5x PK, 3x OM, 1x EF, and 1x QBM).


Besides, I'd chuck my two Nikkors any day of the week if the alternative was to give up my Zuiko 21/2

Last edited by Samsungian; 11-22-2009 at 06:46 AM.
11-22-2009, 07:36 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
OM System Glass on Sony Alpha Adapter ?
Good Luck with making that combo happen.

One of the reasons I got into eos mount is its extreme adaptability to other glass mounts. Well that & when I bought my 5D Classic new it was $449 more than K20D. I have a feeling you're stuck using eos full frame forever, well until you sell your Oly 21mm f2 ect.

This thread has confirmed one thing for me, my next Dslr will be 5D Mark II though I am still quite pleased with 5D Classic, the improvements to Mark II are compelling. I just wish it cost $500-$700 less, then I'd have one. I just refuse to pay full list (again) for a dslr.

Had you skipped buying Pentax K-7 you would have had about 1/2 the money needed for 5D Mark II. Then you could have sold off your sad 5D classic and PRESTO:

You'd have a 5D Mark II in your kit instead, today.


Do you just like to gloss over what people write and just nitpick little places here and there where you can?

If you had bothered to read the rest of the post where I mentioned Sony, you would've found that I need built-in IS. That is the most important thing to me. So no, having only a MkII is out of the question (not to mention the list of short, but impressive PKA/AF mount lenses--FA31Lim, DA12-24, DA*16-40, DA*60-250, CV 125/2.5, CV 90/3.5--that will not adapt to the MkII and the few, but important, M42 lenses that will not adapt to the MkII without mirror shaving).

You would have also seen that I said the MkII would be the No. 1 candidate. However, a Sony will also come into consideration because, uknlike Nikon (the other FF manufacturer) F mount, it will still allow me to natively adapt *most* of my MF lenses while given me something that no other manufacturer currently can; IS on an FF sensor. The point about my post is that I would need to consider if that's a trade-off I can live with.


And please, can you get out of your fanboy mindset? I'm not attacking Canon; this isn't, at least on my part, a Canon bashing. I am looking specifically at just one body, the 5D, which currently still costs 1K USD in the used market, more than the K-7 new, and talking about its features in comparison to the K-7's. Surprise surprise, you're not the only one who got a Canon FF cam for its adaptability and I am happy to be using an EF mount camera.

Last edited by RawheaD; 11-22-2009 at 07:48 AM.
11-22-2009, 08:23 AM   #25
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Its all good, I thought we were chit chatt'n

Its all good, I thought we were chit chatt'n.

You seemed pretty unhappy with your old 5D whereas I'm happy with mine.

5D Classic has got limitations, but its a 2005 camera. Its price point allowed me access to full frame dslr and I'm grateful. Before 5D launched real full frame dslr were $8,000. Way out of my price range in 2005 and still today.

I find having usable high iso imaging platform seems to equalize the benefits shake reduction bodies offer me. But I have no K-7, so I am just speaking as a K20D owner who does enjoy shake reduction, though I'd prefer to see the image stabilize in the viewfinder, like it does with my two Canon image stabilized lenses.

I think Sony lets you do this? You know, see the image stabilize in the viewfinder when using alternative mount lenses. But I believe your OM System glass will not work on Sony as Olympus designed it, without the aide of an poor quality optical adapter. There was a thread here recently discussing that OM->Alpha possibility and at fredmiranda.


QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Do you just like to gloss over what people write and just nitpick little places here and there where you can?

If you had bothered to read the rest of the post where I mentioned Sony, you would've found that I need built-in IS. That is the most important thing to me. So no, having only a MkII is out of the question (not to mention the list of short, but impressive PKA/AF mount lenses--FA31Lim, DA12-24, DA*16-40, DA*60-250, CV 125/2.5, CV 90/3.5--that will not adapt to the MkII and the few, but important, M42 lenses that will not adapt to the MkII without mirror shaving).

You would have also seen that I said the MkII would be the No. 1 candidate. However, a Sony will also come into consideration because, uknlike Nikon (the other FF manufacturer) F mount, it will still allow me to natively adapt *most* of my MF lenses while given me something that no other manufacturer currently can; IS on an FF sensor. The point about my post is that I would need to consider if that's a trade-off I can live with.


And please, can you get out of your fanboy mindset? I'm not attacking Canon; this isn't, at least on my part, a Canon bashing. I am looking specifically at just one body, the 5D, which currently still costs 1K USD in the used market, more than the K-7 new, and talking about its features in comparison to the K-7's. Surprise surprise, you're not the only one who got a Canon FF cam for its adaptability and I am happy to be using an EF mount camera.
11-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #26
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Mmmmmm, not quite. I'm not "unhappy" about my 5D; in fact, I'm quite happy and, like you say, grateful about it, in that I got a full frame camera for a little over a grand, that can mount almost all the lenses I have. As it stands, it remains the *only* FF body that is within that budget, so, if I didn't have the 5D now and I had 1G to blast, I'd probably get the 5D, even if I knew all the limitations.

Again, all I wanted to say was that if you compare the two bodies I have, which go for about the same price today, the only thing the 5D has going for it is the sensor size and short register distance. I'm quite sure the MkII will have a lot more going for it, but I'd fully expect that when my K-7 is now less than 1K USD while the MkII is still north of 2.5K USD :-)


As for the OM mounts, I'm sure if I'm willing to mod it, it can be made to fit on an Alpha, since it definitely can be made to fit on PK (there's a thread about that somewhere here). But I'd probably not want to do that since I do, on occasions, use them on my OM-2n.

Regarding image stabilization, there's a trade-off between the Pentax solution and the Sony solution, being primarily that the Pentax solution gives you better stabilization in more directions (left/right, up/down, AND rotation). I don't mind the view finder not being stabilized at all, really, and if I needed to see a stabilized image, I can always switch to Live View. Regarding the Canon (and Nikon) solutions, I'm quite sure for the lenses that have the latest IS (that can do pitch on top of roll stabilization) will blow away the Pentax solution.

Problem, of course, being that knowing that does jack with the 30+ lenses I have and use in my current arsenal :-)))



QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Its all good, I thought we were chit chatt'n.

You seemed pretty unhappy with your old 5D whereas I'm happy with mine.

5D Classic has got limitations, but its a 2005 camera. Its price point allowed me access to full frame dslr and I'm grateful. Before 5D launched real full frame dslr were $8,000. Way out of my price range in 2005 and still today.

I find having usable high iso imaging platform seems to equalize the benefits shake reduction bodies offer me. But I have no K-7, so I am just speaking as a K20D owner who does enjoy shake reduction, though I'd prefer to see the image stabilize in the viewfinder, like it does with my two Canon image stabilized lenses.

I think Sony lets you do this? You know, see the image stabilize in the viewfinder when using alternative mount lenses. But I believe your OM System glass will not work on Sony as Olympus designed it, without the aide of an poor quality optical adapter. There was a thread here recently discussing that OM->Alpha possibility and at fredmiranda.
11-22-2009, 03:09 PM   #27
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Just wanted to make a quick mention re: OM glass and Sony bodies. It looks like many of the lenses can be adapted with relative ease -- the registration distance is shorter on the Alpha mount than the OM one, and the main issue is the bayonet mount on the OM lenses interfering. A guy on FM adapted a couple of OM lenses to his A900 using I believe an M42 adapter and spacer, looked like a pretty simple job.
11-22-2009, 03:22 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Just wanted to make a quick mention re: OM glass and Sony bodies. It looks like many of the lenses can be adapted with relative ease -- the registration distance is shorter on the Alpha mount than the OM one, and the main issue is the bayonet mount on the OM lenses interfering. A guy on FM adapted a couple of OM lenses to his A900 using I believe an M42 adapter and spacer, looked like a pretty simple job.
Sounds similar to adapting OM glass to Pentax mount. I actually still have a lens (and flanged m42 adapter) sitting around for that precise purpose.
11-22-2009, 04:04 PM   #29
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Found a OM>Alpha thread at FM.

Found a OM>Alpha thread at FM.

Hack'n the OM 21mm f2 doesn't sound appealing to me, but people do hack the mounts off valuable lenses on the alternative forum. Its part of the fun.

Me? I like simple adapters and surgery~free adapting. I owned and later sold a desirable OM lens when I got a Nikon to replace it at same focal length. No way I would have re-couped my $1700 I had in the OM lens if I cut on it. Now the market is flooded with it. KEH has 3 and ebay has 10. I picked a good time to let it go to a loving home.


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/828409/0#7691173
11-22-2009, 04:26 PM   #30
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If you can find a compatible rear part from a cheaper lens you could hack that up and just swap it onto the fancy/expensive lens, keeping the original part intact. Not sure how "cross-compatible" the OM lenses are but I recall seeing it done.
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