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03-19-2010, 08:00 AM   #1
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LONG timelapse with p&s camera

So

I googled littlebit but didn't find too great info.

I would have to do a half a year long timelapse in harsh conditions. So I'm looking into p&s cameras which could save files either over network or to a external media HDD. Also timelapse feature is a must. Also AC adapter must be available.

It seems that this kind of camera is quite hard to come by, it may not even exist. But I thought that if someone here would have some ideas they would be appreciated.

Most likely combo could be canon powershot p&s + CHDK firmware hack. But I still didn't find option to save to a external HDD or over network.

-Juho

03-19-2010, 12:14 PM   #2
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How will you keep the camera powered for a year? What resolution do you want for your time-lapse video? If you want to hang a lens near a building, tethered with data and power lines, you don't need a dedicated camera. For instance:

I have an old Sony Vaio mini-laptop, PCG-4A1L, bought in 2004. It has a built-in rotating webcam, and software for uploading pictures to any website. YOU CAN ALSO PLUG AN EXTERNAL WEBCAM INTO THE USB PORT! It's resolution is VGA, 480x640, fine for the non-HDTV displays of the day.

I would take a cheap VGA webcam, seal it in a plastic box wrapped in plastic bags, with only the lens exposed, and fasten it to a pole outside my window. I ran the USB cable in, plugged into the Sony Vaio. Sometimes I set the software to snap the shutter every minute, and upload the picture to a website, replacing the previous image. Sometimes I set the timing to every hour, saved the photos, and assembled them into time-lapse videos. In sunshine and shadow, rain and snow and hail, with passing deer and squirrels and cats, it survived. I usually wouldn't run a session for more than a couple months, because I took the Sony Vaio with me when I traveled.

Used laptops aren't very expensive now. Neither are higher-resolution webcams. Look for systems with the features I've described. You also might want a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) to make sure the system stays powered if you are away for any length of time.
03-19-2010, 02:37 PM   #3
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Not exactly answering your question but... I'm currently doing a time-lapse project using an old K100d permanently connected to an old PC... PC serves as a timer remote and as a storage... I'm sure that with a DC-adapter I could run my setup all year round without any problems... learned quite a bit while doing it... I had a chance to borrow the K100d, but any old DL or DS with a kit lens (i've seen some in classifieds for 150$) will do just as well... and any used PC, laptop, even these really small and simple mini-PCs can be used to control the camera... as long as there's a network connection, you can connect to it remotely...

Last edited by alexeyga; 03-19-2010 at 02:47 PM.
03-19-2010, 10:11 PM   #4
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I agree it'd probably just make your life easier if you used a PC + webcam setup. Unless the environment will completely preclude such a setup.

Get the cheapest netbook you can find and a decent webcam, then weatherproof the setup. Much easier than trying to figure out a way to dump images from a P&S cam.

You will kill several birds with one stone since you don't have to worry about a "hack" to the camera (like CHDK, which pretty much limits your choice to Canon P&S cameras), you don't have to worry about dumping your images (external HDD or network dump---either way, you're asking way too much for a camera OS to be able to handle), you don't have to worry about AC adapter (which are sometimes hard to come by and or expensive), etc.


if for whatever reason the situation precludes such a setup, you might want to look into Eye-Fi cards. So long as you can have the camera within range of your own WiFi network, I bet it won't be hard to get the cam to transfer pics to a networked computer the moment it takes each shot.

Eye-Fi memory cards: wireless photo & video uploads straight from your camera to your computer & the web.

03-20-2010, 04:14 AM   #5
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Thanks for all the answers, well I am just in the phase of collecting data for this project. And more and more I'm learning towards a Powershot camera + CHDK firmware + Eye-Fi pro... in a sealed box with ac-adapter and ups. Because location would be apparently outside in a long pole so getting a computer nearby is a problem and lesser the wires the better.

Eye-Fis ability to transfer images to picasa automaticly interests me. As picasa space is quite cheap. Anybody has some real life experience how this works ?

p.s Any tips which powershot camera would be the best one quality/price wise... (I would have loved to get a Ricoh GX to this job but they can't to infinite timelapse just with camera, Powershots with that hack firmware can)

I agree that web camera would be the best, but resolution is not adequate.

@alexeyga
What software are you using to control your K100D ? I have thought that pentax remote assistant allowed just 99 shots?
03-20-2010, 10:11 PM   #6
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well, I've been very happy with timelapse I've gotten out of my PowerShot A 620 + CHDK firmware.

Fact is, if you're aiming for 720p HD (or even 1080p) timelapse video with deep DoF, any modern P&S will give you decent enough resolution & image.


Regarding Eye-Fi, I've never owned one, but I'd be surprised if the card has *any* ability to do anything on it's own. I.e., don't think that it will *push* images onto the network.


Rather, my guess is that it requires a piece of software or, at the least a daemon running on a computer which sniffs out newly acquired images on an Eye-Fi, at which point it *pulls* the data out of the SD card.

That's why I said you probably need to have the camera & Eye-Fi within range of your *own* WiFi network (i.e., you won't be able to rely on e.g., public WiFi network).

I may be completely wrong about how Eye-Fi works, but again, I find it terribly difficult to believe that the SD card would have enough innards to do anything standalone (which requires a CPU and an OS/firmware of sorts at the very least).
03-21-2010, 03:07 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Regarding Eye-Fi, I've never owned one, but I'd be surprised if the card has *any* ability to do anything on it's own. I.e., don't think that it will *push* images onto the network.


Rather, my guess is that it requires a piece of software or, at the least a daemon running on a computer which sniffs out newly acquired images on an Eye-Fi, at which point it *pulls* the data out of the SD card.

That's why I said you probably need to have the camera & Eye-Fi within range of your *own* WiFi network (i.e., you won't be able to rely on e.g., public WiFi network).

I may be completely wrong about how Eye-Fi works, but again, I find it terribly difficult to believe that the SD card would have enough innards to do anything standalone (which requires a CPU and an OS/firmware of sorts at the very least).
I have no first hand info, but Eye-Fi website says that you can conf up to 32 networks for your card... So I think network will not be problem. What interests me is that they state at their web site to offer DIRECT uploading to picasa.

That would help a lot! very stable server and automatical uploading to there... I'm just drooling about the possibilities it opens

Shame that no pentax p&s have infinite timelapse mode... I would more willingly put some rugged camera outside (even if it's inside a box there's still lot of humidity changes and temperature changes.)

05-12-2010, 06:50 AM   #8
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Well I just thought to post some news

One SX200IS camera has been shooting since 26.03.2010 one shot every five minutes, yesterday we received finally our Explore X2 card which experienced major adventures at the post! So next week we can convert our camera to shoot and upload via Wlan, so no more SD card changes... which we had to do with a lift because camera is on top of a telephone post.

This first one was build with so haste and hurry and it had to be "almost free", I'm almost ashamed with camera cover power supply etc...

But if we are lucky I can start building two more "Timelapse units" next week, based around SX200IS and a Powershot A480, with really nice enclosures wi-fi cards tripods and a custom built weather resistant battery unit.

And I'm still just more interested with timelapses

-Juho
05-12-2010, 08:21 AM   #9
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I'd like to see them.
05-17-2010, 10:17 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by dragonfly Quote
I'd like to see them.
Me too, but sadly client pulled out today. So I'ts postponed because my personal budget doesn't stretch now. But I'm hoping to build those in the future.

Apparently 700e for 3 days worth of filming in full resolution and full maintanance was too much, including two hundred kilometer trips to location.

I'll inform when project rolls onward!

-J
12-14-2010, 05:28 PM   #11
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hello there.
Instead of starting a new thread I ll state my business here.

I also have to cover a big outdoor construction.
This project will run for 5 months.
I am thinking of a big sealed box 50x50x50cm with a little hole for the lens
and a door for me take my hands in there.

What do you suggest for (rugged?) camera/remote storage/AC adapter combination ??

Should I invest to an eye-fi card
or should I prefer a wifi enabled camera (like the Ricoh G700 SE ,Wifi+all weather)
12-15-2010, 09:48 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by orfeas76 Quote
hello there.
Instead of starting a new thread I ll state my business here.

I also have to cover a big outdoor construction.
This project will run for 5 months.
I am thinking of a big sealed box 50x50x50cm with a little hole for the lens
and a door for me take my hands in there.

What do you suggest for (rugged?) camera/remote storage/AC adapter combination ??

Should I invest to an eye-fi card
or should I prefer a wifi enabled camera (like the Ricoh G700 SE ,Wifi+all weather)
Hi what I have learned is that (at least at spring/summer 2010 don't know if that has changed) Eye-Fi card kind-of-works. But I'ts not a good system for a long shooting period. It's very vulnerable to lose network and never connect to it again before you reboot the camera. And that's not a nice thing when your camera is mounted atop of a telephone post.

That ricoh with a wlan option sounds nice. But If I were you I would first try to find out is that camera wlan tetherable. Also it depends a lot where you are planning to install the camera (is it easily accessible, near electricity plug, near computer etc)

-Juho
12-15-2010, 09:59 AM   #13
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I studied G700SE manual a little bit. Camera has an option to autosend picture taken and autodelete. So it would seem very good for this kind of operation.

on a little worriying note. There was no mention of max images or endless interval shooting in manual. Also if camera turns off (for example power shortage) interval shooting doesn't continue after power is turned on again. So you would need a nice ups-system alongside AC-adapter to keep your camera running.

But other than that it looks very nice, and indeed quite promising for these sorts of long timelapses.

Rugged build and weather sealing is a nice bonus, though lens could be a little wider :/

Please inform how your project goes, it sounds very interesting!

-Juho
12-15-2010, 10:56 AM   #14
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Hello
thanks for answering.

Unfortunately the max number of shots is indeed mentioned in the manual.
After I found out the max was 999 shots I was curious about other cameras supporting time-lapse as well.
And volia!!
Even the most sophisticated cameras, even the more expensive ones
have a max number of shots.
I couldn't believe it !!!
My Nikon D700, a camera at $2000 has that limit too

Only these little Ricoh models mentioned here have a clear word in manual stating that it won't stop until the card is full

So now my efforts centre on connecting my k-x to a little netbook running Pentax Remote Control (?) Software
I will put the netbook, the k-x, the UPS, the AC adapter a lovely Routerboard with External WiFi Antenna all
in an outdoor enclosure 5m high off the ground

Last edited by orfeas76; 12-15-2010 at 11:09 AM.
12-15-2010, 01:01 PM   #15
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Well that's a shame that there's a limit. That's why CHDK hack firmware and Canon point'n'shoots are quite nice because of unlimited interval shooting. Don't know about tethering with those though

I didn't exactly get how those routerboards work? Is it like you connect camera with (usb) to routerboard, and then connect routerboard to pc with wlan ?

Sadly K-x doesn't function with pentax Remote Assistant... I think K20D is last camera to operate with it. You should see this thread one polish guy is developing a tethering solution to pentax cameras.

I tried the 0.3 version with my K-7 and was positively surprised, interval shooting didn't work for me, but it might work with your K-x. Also that's an early beta stage so it might not be the stablest around there, but could work for you!

Also with dslr there's always a risk that shutter and mirror breaks during ultra long timelapses. (My K10D did well for 55.000 shots for one of my timlapse projects. post your pictures thread here if you're interested. Also it's sad that there's no option for a "forced mirror lockup"

-Juho
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