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03-22-2010, 08:29 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
I guess the question is: what is your current setup not giving you?
This is definitely the best question to ask yourself if you are considering another brand, especially to run along side with a Pentax setup.

For me it was something that would tag along everywhere I go, and M4/3 fit that bill nicely. I am thinking about selling my K-x at this point, although it is an astounding little performer. The low light ability is great, but I don't use it too often, FPS is also fast but not something I use and video I now have a GF1 which has AF during filming, and I can still attach all my older manual lenses to the GF1 as well.

My first day on vacation last month we were at the beach and I had decided to leave my k20d at home this time...all of a sudden I have to worry about sand and the elements! I don't want to give that up, and the K20 ergonomics are still bar-none my favorite when it comes to usability and control access. I guess I have convinced myself!

M4/3 is a great compliment to a larger system, with the pancake my gf1 fits in a jacket pocket, or easily in a small bag, and the lenses are fairly compact as well. But, they are not f2.8! no high FPS, so the best thing to ask is definitely what doesn't my camera do for me that I would like to have?

03-22-2010, 09:44 AM   #17
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For sure the Kx is a great little cam but too be quite honest it wouldn't be my choice if I was shooting professionally, especially weddings.

I have seen enough pics, and no way does the KX at any Iso or ergonomically best the likes of D700 and in fact the 7D doesn't get trounced either considering it's 18mp sensor.

With the likes of the above two dslr's including the d300s and with their comprehensive systems you could tackle any assignment easily and know with confidence the dslr will deliver.

And at the same time from a business perspective you retain decent residual value on your assets after you depreciated them on book to a "1" value
03-22-2010, 10:14 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
Since this is an off-brand forum within a Pentax forum, I thought this would be an interesting question. The truth is that no camera brand or system is perfect, so what other brand does the best job of complimenting Pentax's weaknesses?

(snip)

So what do you guys think? I'm sure it will differ from person to person. If nothing else, it's a fun thought exercise.
Urk - I went through a similar thought process before I bought my D700. It may be "fun" in some sense, but it was a frustrating waste of time for me. As you said, there's no perfect camera out there and if you ponder all the "future possibilities" it can drive you crazy.

Anyways, it's simple. Just do what Samsungian did, buy all systems available. It really is the best solution.
03-22-2010, 10:25 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
For sure the Kx is a great little cam but too be quite honest it wouldn't be my choice if I was shooting professionally, especially weddings.

I have seen enough pics, and no way does the KX at any ISO or ergonomically best the likes of D700 and in fact the 7D doesn't get trounced either considering it's 18mp sensor.

With the likes of the above two dslr's including the d300s and with their comprehensive systems you could tackle any assignment easily and know with confidence the dslr will deliver.

And at the same time from a business perspective you retain decent residual value on your assets after you depreciated them on book to a "1" value
With the exception of the D700 I'll disagree with all of this.

I have about 2000 DNG's from both the D300s and 7D on my editing computer. My 2 assistants use these cameras. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the K-x is as good and even better than these 2 at 6400.

I look at this very differently than many I guess. The camera is a tool. Just like film was. I'd load the film I needed to take care of the needs for the task at hand. I only care what the sensor can do and if it has the features and performance to support it. With the AF, FPS and high ISO ability of this body, it will get the job done very nicely in dark churches and receptions.

Sure the K20D handles better (similar to the Nikon ergonomics) and has a few controls I prefer (grip, top LCD, AF points) but all of that is easily manageable.

For me the body is a specialty tool for certain tasks. I'm not going to shoot an entire wedding with it. I'll have it inside the church when it's dark and at receptions that have crappy light. But for portraits, formals, the bride/grooms house etc. the K20D will still shoot the bulk of the work.

No different than having different lenses for different needs.

03-22-2010, 10:25 AM   #20
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Ha! I know, I really want to add GH1 from Panasonic

Ha! I know, I really want to add GH1 from Panasonic. But then the GH2 rumors are breathtaking. I really like the videos I've seen of Panasonic G2 touchscreen interface, a handy feature due in Sept 2010 GH2.

I Bought kodak digital in 1999 my first digital, then bought pentax made samsung digital in 2005-06, then added canon eos & pentax K20D in 2008, then added nikon in 2009, and still I ponder buying into the m4/3 system. Its amazing what all I bought new since 2008 from canikon, for less coin than just one 645D will sell for, if it ever makes it to USA market

Lucky for me, my wife loves having multiple brands at hand (((too))) , as it is, it would be impossible to keep it from her


QuoteOriginally posted by edl Quote
Urk - I went through a similar thought process before I bought my D700. It may be "fun" in some sense, but it was a frustrating waste of time for me. As you said, there's no perfect camera out there and if you ponder all the "future possibilities" it can drive you crazy.

Anyways, it's simple. Just do what Samsungian did, buy all systems available. It really is the best solution.

Last edited by Samsungian; 03-22-2010 at 10:33 AM.
03-22-2010, 10:43 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Lucky for me, my wife loves having multiple brands at hand (((too))) , as it is, it would be impossible to keep it from her
No need for a preposterous statement of the year, the voting is already settled and this is it! Kidding...!
03-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
In fact it has something of an old school style to it. Back when we used the center split screen to get focus, we essentially only had one focus point. You focused on the subject and recomposed the shot. I like not having the blinking lights in the VF.
Works great until you have a moving subject not in the center. I switch AF points quite a bit lately and not having the focus point indicator in the viewfinder would be very un-fun. That said, the K-x overall looks like an excellent performer, so if they can put out a K30d(?) with that sensor it would be a sweet camera.

03-22-2010, 12:27 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
John Shaw is a professional & he doesn't use medium format

Alot of photographers earn their living without using medium format.


Anyone seriously think he'll cash out of LOWLY Nikon Full Frame Dslrs to buy into 645D to improve his sales and artistic vision ???

I wasn't suggesting that medium format was the only option, I was illustrating my point that running another camera system entirely depends on what your existing camera system doesn't give you and what you do require.
03-22-2010, 12:53 PM   #24
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Pingflood, I've already tried this and it's not too tough with the K-x. The focus points are not on the screen but in easily found spot near the scribed marks on the screen. So say you want to use the far right spot, change to that focus point and use the scribed mark as the focus indicator and shoot. It works. I tried it while following cars at 40MPH and was able to nail all the shots.

Is it perfect? No. Can you work with it? With practice, yes. Just as important, this camera is targeted at the first time user and they won't care most of the time. We are discussing this almost as if it is a semi pro model and it's really an entry level one that is one heck of a value for the $$. As a result it's going to be missing a few things at this price.

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03-23-2010, 02:54 AM   #25
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Peter !

If you could, would you tell which lenses work well as a low-light AF-lens on the K-X and which lenses you would not recommend ?

I do not have to shoot weddings and love manual lenses. I was really impressed by the viewfinder of the Sony A900. Noticeably better than the 850 and Nikon D700. I think Sony has exchangable mattscreens too (which the Nikon has not).

Best, Georg
03-23-2010, 03:32 AM   #26
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Georg,
I honestly have not looked at the Sony's recently. In Canada they have "Sony Stores" Just like Apple computer does elsewhere and we don't have one. I'm in a small city/province.

So I can't say much about the FF models. Nice to hear they have good VF's.

As for lenses on the K-x I've only shot the Tamron 28-75, DA*16-50mm, Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 EX DG (older version) and the FA50mm f1.4 so far. I've just had the camera 4 days to this point.

With these 4, the camera performs well. All focus faster than my K20D. In the case of the FA50mm, it's much faster and I find the lens is sharper wide open somehow. I need to do more critical testing with it but it seems better. I have no idea why.

I breifly tried the SMC Tak 50mm f1.4 and it didn't seem as nice for some reason. But that test was not as extensive. No problem focusing but I haven't figured out the exposures with this body yet on M42 lenses. There seems to be much more variable exposures between F stops. As much as + 2.5 EV at wider apertures. There's no question the metering is very different than the K20D and K10D. It's brighter with fully auto lenses but at first glance, M42's drastically under expose.

I have a bellows here and 6 lenses of various lengths for it. I was hoping to use the LV on the K-x for this set up and will test it soon but if it underexposes that much with manual lenses, then it might not be the best camera for manual lenses.

So at this point I'm a bit vague. With the 4 auto lenses above, it performs very well. Oh I forgot that I used it with the FA50mm f2.8 macro and I was under whelmed with the first results. I took the same shots with the K20D and the lens performed better (sharper backgrounds when stopped down to f14) as if the K20D could provide greater DOF somehow. I'll have to do a more detailed test with that lens.

if you click on the link in my signature, you'll see the first section of a K-x review. If you have specific questions you want me to research for the next sections, add something to the comment section or send me a PM.
03-23-2010, 06:09 AM   #27
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Wow great help Peter. I'll check your testing as it progresses. Practical use and opinion is more meaningful to me and I value that higher than lab tests (as I am doing social stuff in dim lighting too).

As for the manual lenses severely underexposing, there is always the aluminium foil trick - shortcutting the camera contacts - to get the EV back to near +-0. You should have better exposures with those manual lenses which have a blank back, right ?

Best, Georg

Last edited by georgweb; 03-23-2010 at 06:14 AM.
03-23-2010, 07:59 PM   #28
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I think what I appreciate more, after thinking this question through and some of its subsequent permutations in this thread, is how perfect Pentax is as a complimentary system to a lot of the different other brands. Pentax doesn't do anything better than anyone else, but they do a lot well, and the combination of options that they offer is unique I think.
03-23-2010, 11:03 PM   #29
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I am thinking that such a camera (secondary or even primary to Pentax) would largely depend on specific photographer. I for one, would probably have opted for Panasonic GF-1 had I not gotten confused between it an Olympus EP-1. The intended purpose would have been a rather serious camera for my 8 years old daughter that now shoots with formerly mine K10D. Other than that, I am pretty much satisfied with what Pentax offers both convenience-wise and IQ-wise.
03-24-2010, 11:12 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I solved my problem with this debate the other day. I was giving Nikon (D700) some very serious thought. Test one several times. Very disappointed with the VF and the same for the 5DMkII. No brighter than the K20D. FF? WTF?

My main issues were higher ISO's and AF. The K-7 was an improvement on the K20 in AF but not ISO, so that body was of no value to me. I mean how many bodies can you carry at once? I only have 2 hands. The IQ of the K20D was perfectly fine IMO and still exceeds my skill level. So gimme High ISO and better AF.

The K-X. Yup a base model cheapo camera. Does both better than I expected and to boot, the VF equals the brghtness of my K20D's. The best possible solution. You usually have 3 choices. 1) price 2) IQ 3) features and performance. Usually you can't get all 3 with one camera. In this case, I think you can.

Plus things like missing the top LCD, no visible AF points etc are no big deal. I've taken about 700 shots with it and really like this camera.
+1 Peter. I've never hesitated to pick up the K-x (or even its predecessor the K-2000/K-m and go to work with it. Typically, I'm hopping off the bike to take a couple of quick photos or if it's a particularly nice setting, slowing down, setting up the tripod and spending a little more time. Still, doing that a dozen times during a 250-300 mile day makes for a really late hotel check-in, so I try to save time by using zooms - the DA* 50-135 mounted on the K20d and the DA* 16-50 on the K-x/K-m. If I get home and am unhappy with a shot, 9 times out of 10 it's something I did wrong - by rushing, by being lazy, by not thinking it through - versus something the camera's not capable of.

I think we get caught up in the specs and pixel peeping sometimes and forget that a little camera like the K-x runs rings around what would have been considered top-shelf, award-winning, pro-quality gear from just 2-3 years ago. Mind you, I'm not doing art gallery work - my stuff gets screened and fed to an offset press. But still, don't dismiss the K-x out of hand - it's highly capable.
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